Gun Control Debate #2

[BayouBelle_LA]

We are history buffs in my home, too. Does it really matter who ordered AR15’S in 1960? The discussion here should be what can we do today, to protect our schools (and all of society) from the increasing violence with guns of all kinds. Am I mistaken?

I don't see anything wrong with correcting misinformation.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

What about installing bullet proof doors in classrooms? These should have locks that could be turned on without being at the door.

IMO,, it is more important for the teacher to help get the students settled in the safest place in the classroom while trying to calm them and reassure them. If teacher is not comfortable with a gun, worrying about handling the gun to protect her classroom, I am sot sure she/he would be their best in caring for the students.

I am one of those who would freeze knowing my responsibility was to get my gun and be ready to use it! I love children and would be 100% in doing anything possible to get my classroom in the safest situation possible. But don’t require me to use a gun!

Another thought. A crazy student sitting in a classroom could cause big problems knowing every teacher has a gun. He could take over the classroom demanding the teacher give him his gun. Is that what we want to fear?

I doubt a trained armed teacher would hand over their gun to a crazy student on demand. They are armed to stop crazy students from harming students and themselves. JMO

 

[rsd1200]

We are history buffs in my home, too. Does it really matter who ordered AR15’S in 1960? The discussion here should be what can we do today, to protect our schools (and all of society) from the increasing violence with guns of all kinds. Am I mistaken?

We have antique firearms that have been passed down through family. I am not a threat and wish to keep them.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

More guns, more crime: New research debunks a central thesis of the gun rights movement

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...e-gun-rights-movement/?utm_term=.eb3bb68a88ae

"The totality of the evidence based on educated judgments about the best statistical models suggests that right-to-carry laws are associated with substantially higher rates" of aggravated assault, robbery, rape and murder, Donohue said in an interview with the Stanford Report.

The evidence suggests that right-to-carry laws are associated with an 8 percent increase in the incidence of aggravated assault, according to Donohue. He says this number is likely a floor, and that some statistical methods show an increase of 33 percent in aggravated assaults involving a firearm after the passage of right-to-carry laws.

These findings build on and strengthen the conclusions of Donohue's earlier research, which only used data through 2006.

In addition to having nearly two decades' worth of additional data to work with, Donohue's findings also improve upon Lott and Mustard's research by using a variety of different statistical models, as well as controlling for a number of confounding factors, like the crack epidemic of the early 1990s.

(2014 article)

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

It seems, Ranch, that you're making a rhetorical/hyperbolic argument?

You want no more gun controls. Therefore, if there are, just go ahead and repeal all gun rights.

Please correct me if I'm wrong. Just trying to understand your point. Thank you.

The post I responded to was about semi auto rifles. It was not in response to everyone's opinion about all gun control.

In my opinion if we are to go with more gun control as an answer then the repeal of the Second Amendment needs to considered. JMO

 

[Deleted member 39678]

It seems, Ranch, that you're making a rhetorical/hyperbolic argument?

You want no more gun controls. Therefore, if there are, just go ahead and repeal all gun rights.

Please correct me if I'm wrong. Just trying to understand your point. Thank you.

I'm not saying that I'm totally against any further gun control. I just don't see the ones proposed making a great difference in limiting gun violence. I don't feel that piecemeal gun control targeting semi auto rifles will have a significant effect on reducing gun violence.

I feel that there are other better options available to reduce gun violence that don't include further gun controls. If people do want to use more gun control as a solution, the Second Amendment is in the way and it's repeal needs to be looked at.

JMO

 

[Tricia]

Hey Everyone,

This thread is closing down for tonight. Since I am the only one moderating this discussion and I will be gone tonight it is best to shut it down.

The thread will open up sometime tomorrow. Depends on when I get home.

Thank you for all your participation and input.

Take Care,
Tricia

 

[Tricia]

My apologies for being so late in opening this thread.

Carry on and be nice to each other.

Tricia

 

[kittythehare]

I've been catching up on posts overnight and I notice all the very good and useful suggestions for protecting schools.

But the gun control must extend beyond school shootings and teenagers with guns?
It's mostly over 21'a that kill people with guns.

Lets look at chicago?
My friend's brother was shot and killed in chicago. A beautiful soul in the course of his work.

Not even wrong place, wrong time.. just wrong person encountered..

his life is as valid as the life of a child killed by a gun.
Ban the semi automatic rifles and believe it's a great thing but the handguns kill too..

a lot of people are killed by hand guns and bad tempers.. I know that's stating the obvious, but how can they be regulated or removed from society in general?

As long as they are there, america represents a threat to anyone visiting.. anyone resident.. anyone and everyone.

Do you really really need them, folks?

Would you not consider giving them up for the good of all?

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

I've been catching up on posts overnight and I notice all the very good and useful suggestions for protecting schools.

But the gun control must extend beyond school shootings and teenagers with guns?
It's mostly over 21'a that kill people with guns.

Lets look at chicago?
My friend's brother was shot and killed in chicago. A beautiful soul in the course of his work.

Not even wrong place, wrong time.. just wrong person encountered..

his life is as valid as the life of a child killed by a gun.
Ban the semi automatic rifles and believe it's a great thing but the handguns kill too..

a lot of people are killed by hand guns and bad tempers.. I know that's stating the obvious, but how can they be regulated or removed from society in general?

As long as they are there, america represents a threat to anyone visiting.. anyone resident.. anyone and everyone.

Do you really really need them, folks?

Would you not consider giving them up for the good of all?

Sure.....I’ll consider giving up guns for good but first I have to be sure that our agencies, courts, FBI, LE does this first:

Enforce penalties for convicted felons or criminals found in possession of a gun
Ensure mental health evaluations are done on every registrant with a gun permit
Ensure there’s no internet black market for guns
Impose stricter gun sale laws for stores and for individuals
Ensure the borders are closed to prevent illegal importation of firearms
Raise the age of gun ownership so that young males with emerging schizophrenia may be more carefully vetted
Ensure that LE will engage in an active shooter situation
Ensure DCF appropriately handles violent children/young adults
Ensure school boards don’t hide threats from attendees to improve their “stats”
Ensure domestic violence issues, stalking, bullying get dealt with seriously
Ensure exposure to violence from media sources to developing minds is more strongly censored
Ensure adequate prison space for repeat criminals caught carrying guns
Ensure adequate behavioral health special needs schools make appropriate recommendations as to who can be mainstreamed into regular schools
Sue parents who were made formally aware of their child’s threats but lived in denial or created roadblocks and put society in danger

These are just a few reasons why most that have a handgun (for personal protection) aren’t willing to give them up right now (& I didn’t even get into gangs and street drugs). All just IMO

 

[kittythehare]

Sure.....I’ll consider giving up guns for good but first I have to be sure that our agencies, courts, FBI, LE does this first:

Enforce penalties for convicted felons or criminals found in possession of a gun
Ensure mental health evaluations are done on every registrant with a gun permit
Ensure there’s no internet black market for guns
Impose stricter gun sale laws for stores and for individuals
Ensure the borders are closed to prevent illegal importation of firearms
Raise the age of gun ownership so that young males with emerging schizophrenia may be more carefully vetted
Ensure that LE will engage in an active shooter situation
Ensure DCF appropriately handles violent children/young adults
Ensure school boards don’t hide threats from attendees to improve their “stats”
Ensure domestic violence issues, stalking, bullying get dealt with seriously
Ensure exposure to violence from media sources to developing minds is more strongly censored
Ensure adequate prison space for repeat criminals caught carrying guns
Ensure adequate behavioral health special needs schools make appropriate recommendations as to who can be mainstreamed into regular schools
Sue parents who were made formally aware of their child’s threats but lived in denial or created roadblocks and put society in danger

These are just a few reasons why most that have a handgun (for personal protection) aren’t willing to give them up right now. IMO

great points and relieved to know you are not desperate to keep it.
What about a recruitment drive for far more police on the streets? would you consider adding that to your list too?
Just for the sake of avoiding argument, let's pretend the money is available for these changes (defence budget a tad oTT so could possibly be wrung from that, mebbe)

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

great points and relieved to know you are not desperate to keep it.
What about a recruitment drive for far more police on the streets? would you consider adding that to your list too?
Just for the sake of avoiding argument, let's pretend the money is available for these changes (defence budget a tad oTT so could possibly be wrung from that, mebbe)

I like the idea of having monies put towards more police BUT they have to be properly armed and ready to take action when the situation arises.

 

[MaryG12]

In addition to my earlier suggestions:

Enforce present gun laws.
Make it illegal for felons to possess a gun. Make it illegal for gang members to own guns.
Have public school teachers take certified gun safety classes.
Also, have veterans posted as security at public schools.
Parents must keep their guns locked up and out of reach from children.

 

[Tawny]

In addition to my earlier suggestions:

Enforce present gun laws.
Make it illegal for felons to possess a gun. Make it illegal for gang members to own guns.
Have public school teachers take certified gun safety classes.
Also, have veterans posted as security at public schools.
Parents must keep their guns locked up and out of reach from children.

Do the school teachers and veterans have a say or are we dictating this to them?

 

[kittythehare]

In addition to my earlier suggestions:

Enforce present gun laws.
Make it illegal for felons to possess a gun. Make it illegal for gang members to own guns.
Have public school teachers take certified gun safety classes.
Also, have veterans posted as security at public schools.
Parents must keep their guns locked up and out of reach from children.

There is a growing body of veterans for gun control.. follow the hashtag on twitter.
Their suggestions are wise and far ranging and do not include your suggestion.
Likewise teachers have their own ideas about how they want to teach and many of them do not want to have an additional responsibility.. remember, a handgun against a semi auto is not very effective, even if one is a good shot .
Again trying to expand the discussion to guns in general as opposed to singling out school shootings.

 

[Tawny]

Personally, I know dozens of teachers and hundreds of veterans. There is a teeeeeeny margin who are all for guns in school. But I'd say roughly 9 out of 10 want nothing to do with that and are calling for better regulations and banning of high capacity rapid fire weapons for civilian use.

Granted, this is my personal circles, but as kittythehare said... trending hashtags are a pretty good source of info if you want it straight from the affected member of society's mouth.

As a veteran, I'm calling for these types of weapons to be on the Class III weapons list and for better regulations in general. As a parent, I do not want my child's teachers armed. All, JMO.

 

[MaryG12]

Do the school teachers and veterans have a say or are we dictating this to them?

A quota system would be ideal:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/utah-teacher-supports-arming-teachers-guns-schools/story?id=53287677

All teachers would undergo training, but each would be allowed to say whether or not they want the responsibility to protect students. And if there are not enough. allow veterans to fill in the rest of quota.

 

[kittythehare]

Personally, I know dozens of teachers and hundreds of veterans. There is a teeeeeeny margin who are all for guns in school. But I'd say roughly 9 out of 10 want nothing to do with that and are calling for better regulations and banning of high capacity rapid fire weapons for civilian use.

Granted, this is my personal circles, but as kittythehare said... trending hashtags are a pretty good source of info if you want it straight from the affected member of society's mouth.

As a veteran, I'm calling for these types of weapons to be on the Class III weapons list and for better regulations in general. As a parent, I do not want my child's teachers armed. All, JMO.

The veterans for gun control posts are really powerful, backed by solid facts and taking no prisoners. I'm learning a lot from them and I highly recommend them.

I also believe they are qualified to discuss the subject- do please look and see them..
Those who have undergone extensive training really do know and are entitled to respect on this subject.
They pull no punches , are focused and accurate.

 

[Tawny]

A quota system would be ideal:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/utah-teacher-supports-arming-teachers-guns-schools/story?id=53287677

All teachers would undergo training, but each would be allowed to say whether or not they want the responsibility to protect students. And if there are not enough. allow veterans to fill in the rest of quota.

IMO, that is a very loaded statement. What happens when an unarmed teacher fails to protect a classroom because the shooters knows which teachers are armed and which are not?

And why do we think shooters care if a teacher is unarmed? Has the threat of death stopped ANY shooter in the past? Plenty of shootings happened where there was substantial armed security.

What indicates that arming teachers will be effective?

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

Great post, Tawny. :dance:

Personally, I know dozens of teachers and hundreds of veterans. There is a teeeeeeny margin who are all for guns in school. But I'd say roughly 9 out of 10 want nothing to do with that and are calling for better regulations and banning of high capacity rapid fire weapons for civilian use.

Granted, this is my personal circles, but as kittythehare said... trending hashtags are a pretty good source of info if you want it straight from the affected member of society's mouth.

As a veteran, I'm calling for these types of weapons to be on the Class III weapons list and for better regulations in general. As a parent, I do not want my child's teachers armed. All, JMO.