Gun Control Debate #2

[kittythehare]

Was he even able to ascertain how many gunmen were involved and where their locations were? Don't you have to assess the situation before you enter it? Isn't that part of being a responsible gun carrier?

Well, apparently he was not even able to discern the location of where shots were coming from according to his statement, which seems strange.
His statement stated he was under the impression the shooter was outdoors, not in the building.

 

[bobcat]

You think he could have taken out a guy with an AR15 in all that panic? He might as well have been armed with a water pistol

Sure do. AR-15’s aren’t quite the scary gun you might think they are. At relatively close range a handgun against an AR-15 isn’t really any disadvantage at all. How familiar are you with AR-15’s and handguns, may I ask?

 

[Blef]

Sure do. AR-15’s aren’t quite the scary gun you might think they are. At relatively close range a handgun against an AR-15 isn’t really any disadvantage at all. How familiar are you with AR-15’s and handguns, may I ask?

I'm not because I don't live in a country where guns are common place. The thoughts of living in a society that is so lax about gun violence horrifies me.

So you think he would have got close up to him? And you think a single security guard should do something a trained SWAT team member wouldn't.

 

[rsd1200]

He had the majority for four months. Remember Franken, Kennedy and then some other person who was in the hospital.

I stand corrected. Thanks! He did have total control of the House for two years, but, the Senate, no. I'd forgotten about the Franken swearing in issue, the illnesses of a couple Senate members, and the death of Kennedy.

 

[flourish]

Well, apparently he was not even able to discern the location of where shots were coming from according to his statement, which seems strange.
His statement stated he was under the impression the shooter was outdoors, not in the building.

Echoing? Gunshots can be very super loud. I haven't researched the set-up of the school.

 

[bobcat]

Was he even able to ascertain how many gunmen were involved and where their locations were? Don't you have to assess the situation before you enter it? Isn't that part of being a responsible gun carrier?

No, police protocol for a school shooting is to go in immediately. Even the sheriff talked about how officer Peterson was wrong in not engaging the shooter.

Information about ways the Broward County Sheriff's Office didn't sufficiently handle the shooter both before and during the incident started coming out in full force on Thursday, when Broward County Sheriff Israel announced that video showed Deputy Peterson outside the building where students were being shot for "upwards of four minutes."

"What I saw was a deputy arrive ... take up a position and he never went in," Israel said at a news conference. Israel said Peterson should have "went in. Addressed the killer. Killed the killer." Peterson was suspended without pay, after which he resigned.

County Superintendent Robert Runcie said, "I'm in shock and I'm outraged to no end that he could have made a difference in all this. It's really disturbing that we had a law enforcement individual there specifically for this reason, and he did not engage. He did not do his job. It's one of the most unbelievable things I've ever heard."

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cn...d-school-shooting-broward-deputies/index.html

 

[bobcat]

I'm not because I don't live in a country where guns are common place. The thoughts of living in a society that is so lax about gun violence horrifies me.

So you think he would have got close up to him? And you think a single security guard should do something a trained SWAT team member wouldn't.

You keep calling him a security guard- he was a police officer. Trained in exactly what to do in these types of situations. Yes, why wouldn’t he get close? Come up behind the shooter while he’s focused on shooting the children in front of him.

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

I'm not because I don't live in a country where guns are common place. The thoughts of living in a society that is so lax about gun violence horrifies me.

So you think he would have got close up to him? And you think a single security guard should do something a trained SWAT team member wouldn't.

Look, there are a lot of variables here and things that are unpredictable when you look at the situation of a trained & armed 30 year Deputy vs a skinny and mentally/emotionally challenged young man with a semi-automatic. The protocol for the Deputy is clear—he was supposed to go in the direction of the shooter and shoot to kill him.
The variables that could’ve been in favor of the Deputy are numerous such as the perpetrators gun jamming, running out of bullets, the element of surprise, getting an angle advantageous to a lethal shot, etc

It is impossible to say for a fact that the Deputy couldn’t have saved lives if he went into the school. He isn’t a volunteer. We can only speculate on what could have happened one way or the other but no one knows for sure.

I hope we get to see the school’s exterior surveillance footage.

 

[CARIIS]

I could live with the minimum age of 21 for purchasing an AR-15 style rifle that’s been talked about. The problem is in defining exactly what “AR-15 style” means. Which guns does that include?

I think I’d also be okay with a limit to the capacity of magazines, but I’m not sure what that limit should be. Maybe 20 would be reasonable?

Ones chances of living are directly related to living with less !!!

 

[Tawny]

IMO- Fully automatic is not really that big of a concern. Same with bump stocks. A semi-automatic rifle is a little slower but also a lot more accurate. With full auto you’re just randomly spraying bullets and not necessarily hitting any of your intended targets.

That's the point. It's used to spray bullets and if it's held at any point head level and below, it will hit everything in its path. If there is a hallway full of children, and a shooter points that weapon down that hall, everything in that hallway goes down. Same in a cafeteria or a gym or a schoolyard.

285 bullets per minute.

Sure do. AR-15’s aren’t quite the scary gun you might think they are. At relatively close range a handgun against an AR-15 isn’t really any disadvantage at all. How familiar are you with AR-15’s and handguns, may I ask?

At close range yes, so should the person with the handgun politely ask the shooter to please hold still and let me get closer?

Ask me how familiar I am with those weapons, if you're looking for someone's experience level to individually dissect.

 

[Tawny]

Look, there are a lot of variables here and things that are unpredictable when you look at the situation of a trained & armed 30 year Deputy vs a skinny and mentally/emotionally challenged young man with a semi-automatic. The protocol for the Deputy is clear—he was supposed to go in the direction of the shooter and shoot to kill him.
The variables that could’ve been in favor of the Deputy are numerous such as the perpetrators gun jamming, running out of bullets, the element of surprise, getting an angle advantageous to a lethal shot, etc

It is impossible to say for a fact that the Deputy couldn’t have saved lives if he went into the school. He isn’t a volunteer. We can only speculate on what could have happened one way or the other but no one knows for sure.

I hope we get to see the school’s exterior surveillance footage.

What does his stature have to do with anything?

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

By scary, are you implying deadly?

Sure do. AR-15’s aren’t quite the scary gun you might think they are. At relatively close range a handgun against an AR-15 isn’t really any disadvantage at all. How familiar are you with AR-15’s and handguns, may I ask?

 

[kittythehare]

Ones chances of living are directly related to living with less !!!

5 or 6 maybe enough? What do you think Tawny?


(i prefer none at all, but that's me)

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

What does his stature have to do with anything?

Recoil fatigue....lack of significant muscular skeletal structure to maintain adequate control of the weapon......

 

[Tawny]

5 or 6 maybe enough? What do you think Tawny?


(i prefer none at all, but that's me)

If we're talking about capacity of magazines, 10 at the very most. Preferably, handguns are restricted to revolvers, but if it's a pistol with a magazine, no more than 6-8 is necessary. If a person can't defend themselves, their family, and their home with 6-8 rounds, they are putting everyone else around them in danger. A mass shooter trying to change out 6-8 round magazines leaves a lot of opportunities for someone to stop them, versus this kind of firepower:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2IOZ-5Nk5k

 

[flourish]

Shrug. A person single shot with a tiny Derringer could neutralize a person with a ... I don't know... some sort of cannon or something. It depends on the angles and stealth, and a bunch of other factors. What's the name of the guy from Die Hard? That guy could do it better than me by far and school security guard is somewhere in that vast area between me and John McClane (looked it up).

I have, however, found it interesting that when asked why the average citizen really needs such easy access to [insert gun name here], some argue that it's because they need that kind of firepower to have a chance at defending themselves against the bad guys who have [insert same as abovegun name here], but when it's school security with a handgun, it's suddenly totally reasonable. I don't mean here on WS per se, just I've seen that attitude and flip twisting online/at work/grocery etc.

 

[Tawny]

Recoil fatigue....lack of significant muscular skeletal structure to maintain adequate control of the weapon......

These shootings don't last but a few minutes, it doesn't take much and adrenaline gets you a long way.

I was 5'6", 115 lbs when I was trained on an M16, AT-4, 9mm, Grenade launcher...

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

John McClane

Shrug. A person single shot with a tiny Derringer could neutralize a person with a ... I don't know... some sort of cannon or something. It depends on the angles and stealth, and a bunch of other factors. What's the name of the guy from Die Hard? That guy could do it better than me by far and school security guard is somewhere in that vast area between me and John McClane (looked it up).

I have, however, found it interesting that when asked why the average citizen really needs such easy access to [insert gun name here], some argue that it's because they need that kind of firepower to have a chance at defending themselves against the bad guys who have [insert same as abovegun name here], but when it's school security with a handgun, it's suddenly totally reasonable. I don't mean here on WS per se, just I've seen that attitude and flip twisting online/at work/grocery etc.

 

[bobcat]

By scary, are you implying deadly?

All guns can be deadly. But what I was referring to was the notion that someone with a handgun has zero chance against someone armed with an AR-15. Simply not true. Especially when the handgun is in the hands of an experienced and trained officer. No matter what, he should have gone into the school. He’s lying if he said he thought the shots were coming from outside. He called in and gave a description of the shooter! So he had seen him at some point. But he chose to be a coward and hid behind a car outside while children were being killed inside.

 

[human]

Sure do. AR-15’s aren’t quite the scary gun you might think they are. At relatively close range a handgun against an AR-15 isn’t really any disadvantage at all. How familiar are you with AR-15’s and handguns, may I ask?

The guard could have gotten to close range? Remember, Cruz was trained with weapons.