Gun Control Debate #3

[kittythehare]

I am enraged. Enraged that because for some reason people think they need to have rifles that shred the insides of humam beings.

Enraged because of this desire, we are asking LE to give up their lives for a weapon. Enraged because we are turning our schools into prisons. Enraged because people are dying in schools, malls, hospitals, and on and on because people want a death machne.

YES YES YES< a billion times YES.

 

[watergirl62]

Yikes look at Brazil. I have friends in Brazil and they have had huge gun confiscations. The crime there is tremendous. They have to live in high rises to stay safe. One friend drives a vehicle with bullet proof glass because the danger is so great.

Brazil has a massive crime problem. So more people being shot with fewer guns. I believe that number also does not include illegally owned guns. So the actual number of guns owned, is probably much higher.

Thanks! for the clarification about Brazil without assertions about what the conclusions are, judgement re: what I choose to ignore, and what that has to do with any particular agenda.

The data point seems contradictory to the stated conclusion and I wanted to know why it was an outlier. That is all. [emoji223]

 

[watergirl62]

There's also the fact of different regions of some states having vastly different views on gun controls. My state of Washington is a good example of this. Western (liberal) vs Eastern (conservative) Washington are quite divided on this issue, among many others. I live in Western Washington, which thankfully aligns with my values more.

I was compiling proposed restrictive gun bills by state a couple o f days ago and had to go to the NRA-ILA (legislative action) site to do so. I was surprised to see that there are also numerous expansive gun rights bills that are currently or recently proposed. There are definitely state's at either end of the spectrum.

The site visit was eye-opening to me primarily for that reason and also because they are so dead-set against any restriction whatsoever and also the level of organization and insertion into our legislative system is straight-up terrifying. IMO
[emoji102]


https://drive.google.com/file/d/1RqeINBhT1h6ZLP-zJOJjCHPm15SQxIlo/view?usp=drivesdk

 

[watergirl62]

I see that bobcats and personal nukes have appeared in the thread since I was here last... Nice! [emoji41][emoji111]

 

[kittythehare]

I see that bobcats and personal nukes have appeared in the thread since I was here last... Nice! [emoji41][emoji111]

!
I'll have you know every single bobcat was fed and watered and with fruit for desert!!!

 

[kittythehare]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...witter_impression=true&utm_term=.96d9c64cfbdb

A NUMBER of companies that once saw value in partnering with the National Rifle Association have decided to end their connections with the organization. Outrage over the deaths of 17 people, most of them teenagers, in the South Florida school shooting and the passionate advocacy of students who survived the massacre are helping to drive the unprecedented corporate backlash. Most of the credit, though, goes to the NRA for its unhinged response to the shooting, and its unyielding opposition to any kind of gun control.

It was not so much a discussion of public policy about guns as a paranoid call to arms against a fantasized socialist takeover of the United States, with dog whistles for Christian white supremacy thrown in. Punctuating that rant was the ugly suggestion by the group’s spokeswoman, Dana Loesch, that the media welcomes mass shootings because of some supposed bump in ratings. “Crying white mothers are ratings gold” was her exact phrase.

 

[Isabelle]

How ever did the 2nd Amendment become so twisted as to mean whatever anyone wants it to mean?

 

[rosemadderlake]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...witter_impression=true&utm_term=.96d9c64cfbdb

A NUMBER of companies that once saw value in partnering with the National Rifle Association have decided to end their connections with the organization. Outrage over the deaths of 17 people, most of them teenagers, in the South Florida school shooting and the passionate advocacy of students who survived the massacre are helping to drive the unprecedented corporate backlash. Most of the credit, though, goes to the NRA for its unhinged response to the shooting, and its unyielding opposition to any kind of gun control.

It was not so much a discussion of public policy about guns as a paranoid call to arms against a fantasized socialist takeover of the United States, with dog whistles for Christian white supremacy thrown in. Punctuating that rant was the ugly suggestion by the group’s spokeswoman, Dana Loesch, that the media welcomes mass shootings because of some supposed bump in ratings. “Crying white mothers are ratings gold” was her exact phrase.

-Just like Vietnam. So glad the curtain is being pulled back on Dana Loesch.

 

[Lulu_la_Nantaise]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...witter_impression=true&utm_term=.96d9c64cfbdb

A NUMBER of companies that once saw value in partnering with the National Rifle Association have decided to end their connections with the organization. Outrage over the deaths of 17 people, most of them teenagers, in the South Florida school shooting and the passionate advocacy of students who survived the massacre are helping to drive the unprecedented corporate backlash. Most of the credit, though, goes to the NRA for its unhinged response to the shooting, and its unyielding opposition to any kind of gun control.

It was not so much a discussion of public policy about guns as a paranoid call to arms against a fantasized socialist takeover of the United States, with dog whistles for Christian white supremacy thrown in. Punctuating that rant was the ugly suggestion by the group&#8217;s spokeswoman, Dana Loesch, that the media welcomes mass shootings because of some supposed bump in ratings. &#8220;Crying white mothers are ratings gold&#8221; was her exact phrase.

BBM

What is this socialist takeover (or government tyranny) that must be fought with war weapon? How is it supposed to happen?

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OT - Kitty, you're from Ireland? How do you fare with the Beast from the East? Here we call it the Moscow-Paris and it's leaving tonight. Tomorrrow ought to be 10-15 cent. degrees warmer :happydance:

 

[kittythehare]

BBM

What is this socialist takeover (or government tyranny) that must be fought with war weapon? How is it supposed to happen?

--------

OT - Kitty, you're from Ireland? How do you fare with the Beast from the East? Here we call it the Moscow-Paris and it's leaving tonight. Tomorrrow ought to be 10-15 cent. degrees warmer :happydance:

She is due in 15 minutes.. whole country is on lock down .. we just not equipped to deal with weather extremes.. could be 24 hrs of hell.. be fine if power and trees stay... otherwise, no electricity, no phone, no internet, no water from well, no mobile reception..no heat..furries are all indoors.. but curious.. could be a long night.. here's hoping..

 

[bobcat]

The question that remains unanswered is what is an assault rifle? Lots of people seem to be of the opinion that assault rifles aren&#8217;t &#8220;needed.&#8221; Maybe that&#8217;s true, maybe not. I know many people do in fact use AR-15&#8217;s for hunting. But of course, the 2nd Amendment isn&#8217;t about the right to hunt. Most can agree that AR-15&#8217;s meet the definition of &#8220;assault rifle.&#8221; Although some people like to get technical and say they&#8217;re not assault rifles because they&#8217;re semi-automatic, and not fully automatic. I&#8217;m fine with calling them assault rifles. It really doesn&#8217;t matter. What it comes down to is many people, especially those who aren&#8217;t familiar with firearms and who don&#8217;t use firearms regularly, would like to see ALL semi-automatic firearms banned. Well, that&#8217;s never going to happen. There are just too many people who own, and use semi-automatic firearms, that a total ban just cannot, and will not, ever happen. Many of the semi-automatic Firearms that people own only have a magazine capacity of five, or at the most, ten cartridges. However, aftermarket higher capacity magazines might be available, and therefore, these firearms must all be banned, if an &#8220;assault weapons&#8221; ban is the goal. And then what? Is the government going door to door to collect millions of guns from the people who own them?

 

[kittythehare]

The question that remains unanswered is what is an assault rifle? Lots of people seem to be of the opinion that assault rifles aren’t “needed.” Maybe that’s true, maybe not. I know many people do in fact use AR-15’s for hunting. But of course, the 2nd Amendment isn’t about the right to hunt. Most can agree that AR-15’s meet the definition of “assault rifle.” Although some people like to get technical and say they’re not assault rifles because they’re semi-automatic, and not fully automatic. I’m fine with calling them assault rifles. It really doesn’t matter. What it comes down to is many people, especially those who aren’t familiar with firearms and who don’t use firearms regularly, would like to see ALL semi-automatic firearms banned. Well, that’s never going to happen. There are just too many people who own, and use semi-automatic firearms, that a total ban just cannot, and will not, ever happen. Many of the semi-automatic Firearms that people own only have a magazine capacity of five, or at the most, ten cartridges. However, aftermarket higher capacity magazines might be available, and therefore, these firearms must all be banned, if an “assault weapons” ban is the goal. And then what? Is the government going door to door to collect millions of guns from the people who own them?

The question was answered hundreds of times.
Nobody knows what the government will do, sadly.
There are simply way too many gun deaths.. violent deaths are likely to decrease with less efficient weapons, like fists and cross- bows.
Isn't it worth the sacrifice?

 

[Blef]

People are arguing for teachers to be fully trained in handling weapons, and therefore becoming on the spot first responders. Why do you think teachers decide to go into teaching? I can't believe it's because they want to be an armed first responder or they would have joined LE instead of teaching. I would rather my child's teacher was concentrating on teaching their subject and giving my child the best education and leave LE to LE.

 

[bobcat]

The question was answered hundreds of times.
Nobody knows what the government will do, sadly.
There are simply way too many gun deaths.. violent deaths are likely to decrease with less efficient weapons, like fists and cross- bows.
Isn't it worth the sacrifice?

Well, if it has, the answers given are not acceptable. Basically it boils down to any semi-automatic or automatic rifle that accepts a detachable magazine. That&#8217;s simply too broad of a definition. But it&#8217;s difficult to narrow it down much more than that.

 

[Blef]

The question that remains unanswered is what is an assault rifle? Lots of people seem to be of the opinion that assault rifles aren&#8217;t &#8220;needed.&#8221; Maybe that&#8217;s true, maybe not. I know many people do in fact use AR-15&#8217;s for hunting. But of course, the 2nd Amendment isn&#8217;t about the right to hunt. Most can agree that AR-15&#8217;s meet the definition of &#8220;assault rifle.&#8221; Although some people like to get technical and say they&#8217;re not assault rifles because they&#8217;re semi-automatic, and not fully automatic. I&#8217;m fine with calling them assault rifles. It really doesn&#8217;t matter. What it comes down to is many people, especially those who aren&#8217;t familiar with firearms and who don&#8217;t use firearms regularly, would like to see ALL semi-automatic firearms banned. Well, that&#8217;s never going to happen. There are just too many people who own, and use semi-automatic firearms, that a total ban just cannot, and will not, ever happen. Many of the semi-automatic Firearms that people own only have a magazine capacity of five, or at the most, ten cartridges. However, aftermarket higher capacity magazines might be available, and therefore, these firearms must all be banned, if an &#8220;assault weapons&#8221; ban is the goal. And then what? Is the government going door to door to collect millions of guns from the people who own them?

In the UK there are regular knife amnesties. People are given the opportunity to get rid of knives and other weapons, no questions asked, and they are very successful.

http://surrenderyourknife.co.uk/category/police-forces/

In Nova Scotia I've seen gun amnesties by the police. People who responded were given bus tickets which can be used on city transport and they got a response from members of the public who turned in weapons.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/fares-for-firearms-gun-amnesty-halifax-police-1.3789177

Why can't the US do something similar, as a start, for people who either are a. carrying an illegal gun. Or b. for someone who wants to safely dispose of a weapon they no longer want/need rather than sell it privately with no checks carried out. Then if you are known to be someone who carries a gun illegally, and I know LE know that there are thousands of illegally held weapons, and probably know who have them, and you are caught with a weapon, then you get a far stiffer punishment for not turning the gun in when you could.

Surely any weapon that could be in the hands of an irresponsible gun owner but that is in the hands of LE and can then be destroyed makes the public safer in general?

 

[Blef]

She is due in 15 minutes.. whole country is on lock down .. we just not equipped to deal with weather extremes.. could be 24 hrs of hell.. be fine if power and trees stay... otherwise, no electricity, no phone, no internet, no water from well, no mobile reception..no heat..furries are all indoors.. but curious.. could be a long night.. here's hoping..

My family are in Scotland. The whole place seems to be on lockdown.

 

[PrairieWind]

In the UK there are regular knife amnesties. People are given the opportunity to get rid of knives and other weapons, no questions asked, and they are very successful.

http://surrenderyourknife.co.uk/category/police-forces/

In Nova Scotia I've seen gun amnesties by the police. People who responded were given bus tickets which can be used on city transport and they got a response from members of the public who turned in weapons.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/fares-for-firearms-gun-amnesty-halifax-police-1.3789177

Why can't the US do something similar, as a start, for people who either are a. carrying an illegal gun. Or b. for someone who wants to safely dispose of a weapon they no longer want/need rather than sell it privately with no checks carried out. Then if you are known to be someone who carries a gun illegally, and I know LE know that there are thousands of illegally held weapons, and probably know who have them, and you are caught with a weapon, then you get a far stiffer punishment for not turning the gun in when you could.

Surely any weapon that could be in the hands of an irresponsible gun owner but that is in the hands of LE and can then be destroyed makes the public safer in general?

Actually that does happen in the US. Cities will occasionally have gun buy backs. I don't know how successful they are however. And anyone that has a firearm that they don't want, can indeed take it to the local LE and surrender it. And lots of times police know a person is a person who is in possession of a firearm but they have to have a reason to stop and frisk them first. And most crimes crimes carry a much stiffer sentence if a firearm is involved.

 

[bobcat]

People are arguing for teachers to be fully trained in handling weapons, and therefore becoming on the spot first responders. Why do you think teachers decide to go into teaching? I can't believe it's because they want to be an armed first responder or they would have joined LE instead of teaching. I would rather my child's teacher was concentrating on teaching their subject and giving my child the best education and leave LE to LE.

I&#8217;ve not heard anything about these teachers being forced to do so. It&#8217;s simply making it an option for those who are comfortable with it. I&#8217;d feel better about my kids&#8217; safety at their schools if I knew there was the possibility of having an armed teacher, or other school employee, who could stop a threat, if necessary. The &#8220;gun free&#8221; signs I see out front don&#8217;t give me much confidence in the safety of the schools when I can walk right in the front door and down the hallways with nobody questioning me. Like a person intent on shooting up a school is going to change his mind when he sees the sign and just turn around and go home.

 

[PrairieWind]

People are arguing for teachers to be fully trained in handling weapons, and therefore becoming on the spot first responders. Why do you think teachers decide to go into teaching? I can't believe it's because they want to be an armed first responder or they would have joined LE instead of teaching. I would rather my child's teacher was concentrating on teaching their subject and giving my child the best education and leave LE to LE.

The fact remains that there are indeed many teachers and administrators that are asking to be allowed to have a firearm at school to defend themselves and their students.

 

[Blef]

I&#8217;ve not heard anything about these teachers being forced to do so. It&#8217;s simply making it an option for those who are comfortable with it. I&#8217;d feel better about my kids&#8217; safety at their schools if I knew there was the possibility of having an armed teacher, or other school employee, who could stop a threat, if necessary. The &#8220;gun free&#8221; signs I see out front don&#8217;t give me much confidence in the safety of the schools when I can walk right in the front door and down the hallways with nobody questioning me. Like a person intent on shooting up a school is going to change his mind when he sees the sign and just turn around and go back home.

And I feel the complete opposite. I would pull my kids out of the public school system if I thought the teachers were armed. There's nothing to stop a large teenage boy overpowering a smaller female (just for argument's sake) teacher, disarming her and then shooting up the classroom, and they don't need to worry about bringing the gun with them. I want teachers to teach, not be LE.

It's not about being forced to do anything.