Gun Control Debate #3

[Blef]

Dismissive? Yes, because if it was one of my kids I’d much rather they come home alive, even if they did have to witness a teacher shooting and killing the person who was about to kill all of them.

And if they saw the teacher shot, then the shooter kill their classmates, because the teacher is focused on trying to take a killer out, or a kid in the class disarms the teacher and kills classmates with a gun they wouldn't have access to if the teacher wasn't armed?

 

[bluedivergirl]

case law such as heller vs dc defines it quite well.

Followed up by McDonald V City of Chicago.

 

[Blef]

The 2nd amendment doesn't give anyone the right to just hold ANY weapon. Because Bazookas, nukes, cruise missiles etc aren't allowed under the 2nd amendment. It seems like knife laws are more strict than any gun control laws.

 

[bluedivergirl]

Do you do background checks when you sell it? How do you know that you are selling it to someone who has no criminal background/mental health issues? Genuine question btw

Surely getting guns off the street is a concern? It may be a "perfectly good gun" but if it gets into the wrong hands, it's a "perfectly bad gun"

I have never sold a gun, so I can't answer firsthand.

The question brought to mind an interesting proposal: Permit to Purchase.

The duty falls to the individual who wishes to purchase a weapon to initiate the background checks. Selling to someone without the permits carries a heavy penalty.

The problem that immediately comes to mind is illegal to buy a weapon for a felon (strawman purchase) and it is woefully unenforced.

 

[flourish]

And if they saw the teacher shot, then the shooter kill their classmates, because the teacher is focused on trying to take a killer out, or a kid in the class disarms the teacher and kills classmates with a gun they wouldn't have access to if the teacher wasn't armed?

Again, having actually been a classroom teacher, having the gun taken and used against you would be a definite risk. We couldn't even have lanyards that didn't have a break away clip but a gun? A security guard who isn't physically working with the students would decrease that risk. I worked with little guys, so this isn't necessarily a risk everywhere, but I've had students who tried to get in my shirt to nurse (didn't realize that's only a mommy thing), and there's a lot of movement and bending and such I would think a gun would get in the way?

 

[flourish]

I have never sold a gun, so I can't answer firsthand.

The question brought to mind an interesting proposal: Permit to Purchase.

The duty falls to the individual who wishes to purchase a weapon to initiate the background checks. Selling to someone without the permits carries a heavy penalty.

The problem that immediately comes to mind is illegal to buy a weapon for a felon (strawman purchase) and it is woefully unenforced.

It's very much not enforced, yes. My coworker's fiance is a felon yet my coworker has easily purchased at least two guns in the last couple months.

 

[PrairieWind]

Pleas tell me you turned him in to authorities.

 

[flourish]

District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008), is a landmark case in which the Supreme Court of the United States held, in a 5–4 decision, that the Second Amendment protects an individual's right to possess a firearm unconnected with service in a militia for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home, and that Washington, D.C.'s handgun ban and requirement that lawfully-owned rifles and shotguns be kept "unloaded and disassembled or bound by a trigger lock" violated this guarantee. It was also clearly stated that the right to bear arms is not unlimited and that guns and gun ownership would continue to be regulated.

Bold and unerlining added by me, for emphasis

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/District_of_Columbia_v._Heller

the McDonald ruling goes much further, saying that all state and local gun control laws must meet the standards of the Second Amendment, and of the Heller ruling — not just federal laws.

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/need-to-know/five-things/mcdonald-v-chicago/1876/


Now admittedly I'm at work and not a lawyer, but I didn't see where anything related to those cases said the US can't impose any sort of regulations regarding firearms. Can anyone point out where that is?

I still like the idea of making ammo and its components super expensive and highly taxed. We may not be able to get rid of all the privately owned firearms in the US, and I don't support that anyway, but we can certainly tighten down on the ammunition by making it somewhat cost prohibitive.

 

[flourish]

Pleas tell me you turned him in to authorities.

Me? No, actually, I didn't.

 

[bobcat]

Can I ask you whether you could ever imagine a world without guns?
How do you cope if you travel to or holiday in gun free zones or countries?
It's a serious question because I really do want to understand the attachment?

I’m not really the person to answer these types of questions. Other than, no, I cannot imagine a world without guns. I hunt with mine. I don’t have so called assault weapons. I have a couple semi automatic handguns for self defense, but very rarely do they ever leave my safe.

 

[Blef]

I’m not really the person to answer these types of questions. Other than, no, I cannot imagine a world without guns. I hunt with mine. I don’t have so called assault weapons. I have a couple semi automatic handguns for self defense, but very rarely do they ever leave my safe.

Sorry to bring it up again, but I was wondering how you do background checks for private sales. It really is a genuine question.

 

[kittythehare]

I’m not really the person to answer these types of questions. Other than, no, I cannot imagine a world without guns. I hunt with mine. I don’t have so called assault weapons. I have a couple semi automatic handguns for self defense, but very rarely do they ever leave my safe.

Thanks for answering that.
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[bwt42]

Is this thread still open for discussion on gun control?

Sent from my Moto E (4) Plus using Tapatalk

Good question. I have one on gun control. Wouldn't Dick's & Walmart be guilty of age discrimination if they refused to sell a gun to someone that could legally by one?

 

[kittythehare]

Good question. I have one on gun control. Wouldn't Dick's & Walmart be guilty of age discrimination if they refused to sell a gun to someone that could legally by one?

anybody ever guilty of age discrimination for refusing to sell alcohol based on LEGAL age limits?

 

[flourish]

Good question. I have one on gun control. Wouldn't Dick's & Walmart be guilty of age discrimination if they refused to sell a gun to someone that could legally by one?

Hi! I answered this on the other thread, but will repeat that I highly doubt it, as retailers can refuse service. Think same sex wedding cakes and pharmacists and insurance companies and birth control.

 

[Blef]

The NRA are so infuriating. I'm reading this piece https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/feb/28/trump-background-checks-gun-control and the NRA spokesperson Jennifer Baker “While today’s meeting made for great TV, the gun-control proposals discussed would make for bad policy that would not keep our children safe. Instead of punishing law-abiding gun owners for the acts of a deranged lunatic our leaders should pass meaningful reforms that would actually prevent future tragedies.”

The NRA don't ever seem to come up with any suggestions for solutions, they just berate any type of gun control, citing personal liberty as if that trumps societal safety.
​

 

[bobcat]

Sorry to bring it up again, but I was wondering how you do background checks for private sales. It really is a genuine question.

Up until a couple years ago there was no requirement to do a background check. But now, in my state, to sell a gun you have to go with the buyer to a store or to an individual who has a FFL (Federal Firearms License) to complete the transaction. So all the paperwork is filled out and background check done, the same as if a new gun was being purchased. The gun dealers charge a fee for this service, usually anywhere from $25 to $75 is what I’ve seen.

Most of the guns I have sold have been online to people in other states, so this new law didn’t change anything with that process, as when shipping a firearm across state lines it always was a requirement that it go to a FFL holder, and the buyer would then pick it up from there, and the paperwork and background check would be done at that time.

 

[bluesneakers]

How ever did the 2nd Amendment become so twisted as to mean whatever anyone wants it to mean?

Money. Money for the NRA, for politicians who get money from the NRA, and money for gun manufacturers.

 

[Blef]

Up until a couple years ago there was no requirement to do a background check. But now, in my state, to sell a gun you have to go with the buyer to a store or to an individual who has a FFL (Federal Firearms License) to complete the transaction. So all the paperwork is filled out and background check done, the same as if a new gun was being purchased. The gun dealers charge a fee for this service, usually anywhere from $25 to $75 is what I’ve seen.

Most of the guns I have sold have been online to people in other states, so this new law didn’t change anything with that process, as when shipping a firearm across state lines it always was a requirement that it go to a FFL holder, and the buyer would then pick it up from there, and the paperwork and background check would be done at that time.

Thanks for that. I honestly don't know how this works

 

[bluesneakers]

Actually that does happen in the US. Cities will occasionally have gun buy backs. I don't know how successful they are however. And anyone that has a firearm that they don't want, can indeed take it to the local LE and surrender it. And lots of times police know a person is a person who is in possession of a firearm but they have to have a reason to stop and frisk them first. And most crimes crimes carry a much stiffer sentence if a firearm is involved.

Gun buy backs and also gun amnesty. I know people who have unburdened themselves of illegal (unregistered or altered or "found") weapons this way.