Gun Control Debate #3

[Deleted member 39678]

was also clearly stated that the right to bear arms is not unlimited and that guns and gun ownership would continue to be regulated.

I made sure that part was visible to readers. I had to chuckle when reading some earlier posts that seem to claim that gun ownership is unrestricted in the United States.

That sentiment is obviously not true. JMO

 

[flourish]

I'm learning some interesting things about what teachers are capable and incapable of doing.

For some unknown reason they are incapable of learning how to use a gun to protect themselves and their students. They are incapable of stopping a school shooter who is armed with a rifle. They are incapable of stopping a student from taking their gun away and killing many students with it.

They are capable of spaying bullets wildly without care, killing innocent students. They are capable of abusing students who they are supposed to protect so none of them should be trusted to posses a gun in a classroom.

Teachers seem to have a lot problems that I never knew about.

I'm not sure where you think you learned that.

I'm not going to explain to you how your "impression" is misguided.

:banghead:

 

[flourish]

Have we had any teachers here who support it?

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

I'm sorry you seem to believe they're incompetent, imo. That's disheartening. For some folks, I imagine a belief like that, if real, might make finding workable, otherwise consensus-earning propositions a little more challenging to accept.

Like I said, I don't see any logical or constructive reason to abase these teachers or imply they're unwilling to protect themselves or their students. Or that they're somehow incompetent (link to definition of incapable) because they don't conflate firepower with safety.

I'm sorry you find my post offensive but what I wrote is what I'm getting from reading some of the posts on this thread. JMO

t/p

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

One of my mentors used to say something like: Anyone can complain. When leaders find something broken, it gets fixed.

I'm not sure where you think you learned that.

I'm not going to explain to you how your "impression" is misguided.

:banghead:

 

[Springrain]

I'm learning some interesting things about what teachers are capable and incapable of doing.

For some unknown reason they are incapable of learning how to use a gun to protect themselves and their students. They are incapable of stopping a school shooter who is armed with a rifle. They are incapable of stopping a student from taking their gun away and killing many students with it.

They are capable of spaying bullets wildly without care, killing innocent students. They are capable of abusing students who they are supposed to protect so none of them should be trusted to posses a gun in a classroom.

Teachers seem to have a lot problems that I never knew about.

There's an 18% hit rate for trained officers in gun fights. Trained officers. An armed teacher would have less training than that. If trained officers have that low of a hit rate, what makes anyone think teachers will be better? Teachers are only people, and trained persons are often frozen in fear in these cases. What makes anyone think a teacher will react differently? And many teachers would find it incredibly difficult to kill a student, regardless of if they have a gun. The shock of that kind of situation is incredibly severe.

How would a teacher make sure kids don't get into the gun? How would a teacher make sure kids or unaware of the gun? How would a teacher let their students know they have a gun without instilling fear and paranoia in their students?

Teachers have problems already - poorly funded schools, non-supportive school boards, etc.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

I'm sorry you seem to believe they're incompetent, imo. That's disheartening. For some folks, I imagine a belief like that, if real, might make finding workable, otherwise consensus-earning propositions a little more challenging to accept.

Like I said: I don't see any logical or constructive reason to abase these teachers or imply they're unwilling to protect themselves or their students. Or that they're somehow incompetent (link to definition of incapable) because they don't conflate firepower with safety.



t/p

I never said that teachers are incompetent. I'm simply pointing out some of the things that other posters have said.

Do you feel that teachers are capable of learning to use a gun to protect themselves and their students?

 

[Deleted member 39678]

There's an 18% hit rate for trained officers in gun fights. Trained officers. An armed teacher would have less training than that. If trained officers have that low of a hit rate, what makes anyone think teachers will be better? Teachers are only people, and trained persons are often frozen in fear in these cases. What makes anyone think a teacher will react differently? And many teachers would find it incredibly difficult to kill a student, regardless of if they have a gun. The shock of that kind of situation is incredibly severe.

How would a teacher make sure kids don't get into the gun? How would a teacher make sure kids or unaware of the gun? How would a teacher let their students know they have a gun without instilling fear and paranoia in their students?

Teachers have problems already - poorly funded schools, non-supportive school boards, etc.

This post is an example of someone saying that teachers are incapable of learning to use a gun to protect themselves and their students. JMO

 

[bobcat]

Sometimes the best path is the one that goes from A right to B, versus zig zagging left right and center. I feel like we're zig zagging with all of these grand ideas to arm teachers and post guards, when the straightforward path is to restrict access to the types of firearms that cause mass casualties.

There aren't very many people advocating for banning all guns. There are some asking for a full ban on these types of firearms. The majority want reasonable regulations and it's frustrating that NRA supporters are more concerned with losing what they perceive to be their rights than they are with ensuring something like these mass shootings is simply harder to pull off.

Why are we so reluctant to just make it harder? Legal, law-abiding gun owners can still have access to these firearms, there are ways to make sure that's not infringed upon, but we don't even seem willing to consider better regulations.

One of the ideas is to raise the minimum age to 21. So, that's not just making it "harder." It's making it impossible for 18 to 20 year old, "legal, law abiding" adults to purchase firearms. Another thing that's been mentioned on here several times is making ammunition so expensive basically so people can't afford it. That affects me, and lots of people I know, and we're not mass murderers. That's just not right. Why not tax every other hobby there is to make those hobbies unaffordable as well? There's always talk of "common sense" and "reasonable" gun laws. But then when I start hearing about them, it's not common sense or reasonable at all. Again, why the NRA is so important for those of us who want to retain our gun rights. (although I am not a member, but I'm now seriously thinking I need to join up)

 

[flourish]

Teachers are required to be in charge of their students.

I would like to see people who advocate doing this volunteer in a school. They can have a day thar is prearranged for a lockdown drill.

They will know it is happening that day, but not when.

They will have to be teaching a lesson. There will have to be sometime spent though to learn the schedule in terms of who leaves the classroom to receive different services.

What is the policy for leaving the classroom for the bathroom? What is the policy for inappropriate behavior? Who has an IEP and what are the legalities in terms of behavior and accomodations ? Who has a 504 plan? What time does a student leave to go to the nurse for medication? If no nurse, who gives the medication?

Is there training needed to do an EPI pen? A nebulizer?

What are the policies if a child feels a meltdown coming on? Are there weighted vests or other things available for calming?

Are there,orders for protection? What are the steps in a lockdown? What if you are in the hallway because there is lunch or bathroom break or recess or class change? What if a child is supposed to be returning from their therapy with a special needs person any second? What if a child was at a dental appointment or doctor appointment and should be returning any second?

What if a child just vomited? What if a child has to go to the bathroom right now!

What else? I have not taught for awhile.

Oh yes. Pull down the shades. Lock the doors. Put the children in their safe location. Keep them calm.

Other than that?

I got locked outside but locked inside campus during my first lockdown. I had not been trained on it yet (floating teacher). Dude with a gun had robbed the Subway down the street. There were cops everywhere and it was terrifying! The food service lady saw me outside her door and let me in even though she wasn't supposed to on account of the bad guy could be holding me at gunpoint or whatever.

 

[human]

I never said that teachers are incompetent. I'm simply pointing out some of the things that other posters have said.

Do you feel that teachers are capable of learning to use a gun to protect themselves and their students?

They can learn in their spare time, When I was a teacher, I had schoolwork evenings, weekends and holidays. Maybe after,midnight?

Then of course the 125 hours of classes in order to keep the license.

I was not a music teacher who had to do band if their team won.

Then there is dance duty. Conferences. A summer job because teachers have to make up the shortfall of their salaries. Shopping and scouting up school supplies , snacks, clothing, furniture. Hats, mittens, boots, scarves. Meetinf with other staff. Calling parents. Trying to improve on lessons. Making teaching materials. Entering data.

I had to have indivualized plans for all children, not just special needs. Then I had to enter how I was going to accomplish the goals for each child and now they were doing. Daily. One hour prep just doesn’t do it.

True. Not all teachers work this hard. But this is the teacher I want for my child.

I really wish arm chair quarterbacks would do a day in school. But preparing. Not just visiting. Teaching is not for the weak

 

[flourish]

One of the ideas is to raise the minimum age to 21. So, that's not just making it "harder." It's making it impossible for 18 to 20 year old, "legal, law abiding" adults to purchase firearms. Another thing that's been mentioned on here several times is making ammunition so expensive basically so people can't afford it. That affects me, and lots of people I know, and we're not mass murderers. That's just not right. Why not tax every other hobby there is to make those hobbies unaffordable as well? There's always talk of "common sense" and "reasonable" gun laws. But then when I start hearing about them, it's not common sense or reasonable at all. Again, why the NRA is so important for those of us who want to retain our gun rights. (although I am not a member, but I'm now seriously thinking I need to join up)

Cigarettes and marijuana and alcohol are taxed like crazy!

 

[Tillicum]

Have we had any teachers here who support it?

I do. Though I am no longer teaching.

 

[bobcat]

Cigarettes and marijuana and alcohol are taxed like crazy!

I said hobbies. Those aren't hobbies.

 

[human]

This post is an example of someone saying that teachers are incapable of learning to use a gun to protect themselves and their students. JMO

Reality check, perhaps? Spring actually is in a school so she knows exactly what it is like,

Having been a student in schools is not the same as being the teacher.

Yes,I know teaching looks like a breeze. It is like looking at a gymnast. Looks so easy. Because teachers are always perfecting their skills and make things look smoothe.

Why do people think something like one half of people that go into teaching leave within the first five years?

Because it is damn hard and you better know what you are doing. And you better be willing to,give up most of your free time so,you can ve damn good at your job,

 

[ohreally]

I think it should be a cold day in hell before LE are supposed to give up their duty free breaks. They are asked to do enough. Beyond cruel.

Did you read the news release? It says the program is optional. They can have thier break in the faculty lounge if they do not want to interact with the students. Is it cruel when law enforcement does a pick up basketball games with children, when they do shop with a cop and all the other community events.
Again I will ask my SIL who is in law enforcement if this is disrespectful or cruel to them. I would think he would be happy to partiipate in the program, and thrilled of other officers are stopping by his children's school.
I have come to the conclusion that there is not going to be any movement forward in securing our schools because sides are drawn and neither side is trying to work together to find a solution.

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

Respectfully, here's a link to definition of incapable

noun
a thoroughly incompetent person, especially one of defective mentality.

:loser:

I never said that teachers are incompetent. I'm simply pointing out some of the things that other posters have said.

Do you feel that teachers are capable of learning to use a gun to protect themselves and their students?

 

[human]

I do. Though I am no longer teaching.

Of course you do not have to reply, but I am wondering how you would handle all of the issues presented at lockdown.

I had lockdowns six times a year since Columbine so I am assuming you had them as well? No scary times? We only had two real threats. One with a divorced father and one with a man who was coming after,his divorced wife.

The others were criminals in the neighborhood who had done robberies or whatever.

 

[human]

Did you read the news release? It says the program is optional. They can have thier break in the faculty lounge if they do not want to interact with the students. Is it cruel when law enforcement does a pick up basketball games with children, when they do shop with a cop and all the other community events.
Again I will ask my SIL who is in law enforcement if this is disrespectful or cruel to them. I would think he would be happy to partiipate in the program, and thrilled of other officers are stopping by his children's school.
I have come to the conclusion that there is not going to be any movement forward in securing our schools because sides are drawn and neither side is trying to work together to find a solution.

Please look up the alcoholism rates , suicides and divorces for LE.

LE needs down time to the max.

It is online

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Respectfully, here's a link to definition of incapable

noun
a thoroughly incompetent person, especially one of defective mentality.

:loser:

If you want to stretch things out and say that teachers are incompetent that's up to you. I wont go that far myself.