Gun Control Debate #4

[EuTuCroquet?]

BBM, No, the title of the thread is "Gun Control Debate". I was interested in finding out what the actual stats. were overall in gun related deaths, and what all those deaths actually entailed? I appreciate your links on that, and anyone else that contributes the information too, so that we can get a clearer picture on all of it.

The stats are linked, multiple times, which is why I'm still confused as to your assertion (multiple times) that "cars kill many more people than guns." Instead, you replied with links about suicides. Confusing, imo.

I also broke down some numbers in the post just above your most recent one with some numbers, which you might or might not find helpful. I found it helpful, but ymmv.

Check out the link. Also at that link, there's a downloadable pdf with 40+ pages, by the CDC.

Which is why all of this discussion we're having is posted in the thread called, as you say, "Gun Control Debate." :loser:

We're talking about gun reform. Firearm deaths. "Comparable" deaths and safety measures. Real data.

A horse to water.

I'm off to bed.

G'nite, y'all.


fftobed:

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

(linked article at top of post is from 2014, and numbers in those graphs are through 2010; the second article cites 2006 data?)

(quote)
Which kills more Americans, guns or cars?
Answer: Car accidents, but firearms deaths are catching up. In some states, guns do kill more people than cars—check out this map.
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/12/gun-violence-car-deaths-charts/
(quote)
When Americans think about deaths from guns, we tend to focus on homicides. But the problem of gun suicide is inescapable: More than 60 percent of people in this country who die from guns die by suicide.
Suicide gets a lot less attention than murders for a few reasons. One big one is that news organizations generally don’t cover suicides the way they do murders. There’s evidence that news attention around suicide can lead to more suicides. Suicide is more stigmatized and less discussed than homicide.
https://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/09/upshot/gun-deaths-are-mostly-suicides.html

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

Certainly, if we compare the US to other countries, we have no reason to believe that suicides in the US are unusually common. Indeed, the US is very unremarkable in terms of suicide rates. Deborah Azrael at the Harvard Youth Violence Prevention Center has said "cut it however you want: in places where exposure to guns is higher, more people die of suicide." But, for anyone who can do arithmetic and make simple comparisons, this claim is easily shown to be bunk:

The US comes in between gun-restrictive countries Sweden and Austria, and, of course, has a suicide rates far below that of Japan which is often held up as a paradise of gun-free non-violence. Korea, where privately-owned guns are nearly non-existent, has one of the worst suicide rates in the world. The US also has a suicide rate about equal to Switzerland, which in spite of its reputation as being a country of gun-toters, is estimated to have less than half as many guns per capita as the United States.

(In the US, altitude appears to correlate more with suicide than gun ownership.)

https://mises.org/wire/guns-dont-cause-suicide

Suicide rates

https://data.oecd.org/healthstat/suicide-rates.htm

 

[Karinna]

The stats are linked, multiple times, which is why I'm confused. I also broke down some numbers in the post just above your most recent one, which might or might not be helpful. I found it helpful, but ymmv.

Check out the link. Also at that link, there's a downloadable pdf with 40+ pages, by the CDC. Which is why it's posted in the thread called, as you say, "Gun Control Debate." :loser:

We're talking about gun reform. Firearm deaths. Real data.

A horse to water. I'm off to bed. G'nite, y'all.


fftobed:

No need to be confused, i read back a few pages to get caught up, and your post quoted my previous one where you asked me for links/sources so i provided a couple is all.

 

[Karinna]

I also think there is a lot of conflicting information depending where one reads and sources articles from, so there is that too. Stats. aren't always truthful either IMO.
Some articles like to downplay things while others go the other way. All IMO.

 

[Jennifer17]

Certainly, if we compare the US to other countries, we have no reason to believe that suicides in the US are unusually common. Indeed, the US is very unremarkable in terms of suicide rates. Deborah Azrael at the Harvard Youth Violence Prevention Center has said "cut it however you want: in places where exposure to guns is higher, more people die of suicide." But, for anyone who can do arithmetic and make simple comparisons, this claim is easily shown to be bunk:

The US comes in between gun-restrictive countries Sweden and Austria, and, of course, has a suicide rates far below that of Japan which is often held up as a paradise of gun-free non-violence. Korea, where privately-owned guns are nearly non-existent, has one of the worst suicide rates in the world. The US also has a suicide rate about equal to Switzerland, which in spite of its reputation as being a country of gun-toters, is estimated to have less than half as many guns per capita as the United States.

(In the US, altitude appears to correlate more with suicide than gun ownership.)

https://mises.org/wire/guns-dont-cause-suicide

Suicide rates

https://data.oecd.org/healthstat/suicide-rates.htm

Suicide rates for young men is a global problem and I expect that something of the same causes are also the causes of young men mass shooters.

 

[rsd1200]

I guess that I was hoping the thread would be geared toward a think tank for coming up with ideas to submit to our respective elected officials, en masse. My cousin, came up with a great idea and has already found support for taking the idea to elected officials. It might not make it, or, it may take awhile going through channels, or if it's picked up it might have to be tweaked to implement, who knows yet, but she's thinking, and she's taken action in less than six weeks. She's a firearm owner, a hunter, and target shooter, and is proud of the young people in Florida. Same as me. I guess that's why I sound like a broken record on here about magazine changes, The Ten Lessons Learned, and PSAs. Talking to the shooters as they mature. Looking at what has worked in other states and what hasn't. I know the statistics. I want them to go down, not continue upward. I think I just listed what I'm going to take to mine...

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

Trump administration to aid states in firearms training for teachers, school staff
Betsy DeVos tells '60 Minutes' that arming teachers 'should be an option for states and communities to consider."

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/03/11/devos-schools-violence-task-force-454720

“We are committed to working quickly because there’s no time to waste,” DeVos said on a conference call with reporters. “No student, no family, no teacher and no school should have to live the horror of Parkland or Sandy Hook or Columbine again.”

DeVos said the commission would include teachers.

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

Gun Owners Grapple With Shifting Conversations Around Firearms

https://www.npr.org/2018/03/11/592700205/the-call-in-gun-owners

With roughly 300 million guns in America today, many gun owners have been thinking deeply about the role of firearms in American life.

NPR's Renee Montagne spoke to a few listeners about how the shifting conversation around guns has affected how they view their own firearms.

"We're not able to have an evidence-informed debate because, effectively, the Centers for Disease Control and the National Institute of Health are not allowed to study the issue," Elis, a listener from a small town in Rio Arriba County, N.M., says. Elis is a gun owner, but has not joined the NRA.

"I was very much against guns," she told NPR, "but I live rurally where hunting guns and guns to protect yourself are pretty commonplace."

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

South Floridians pay tribute to Parkland victims at various events

https://wsvn.com/news/local/south-floridians-pay-tribute-to-parkland-victims-at-various-events/

On Sunday, a walk for Parkland was held by students from Dr. Michael M. Krop High School in Northwest Miami-Dade to show their support and demand action.

“We wanted to have a movement where people actually get up and they do something,” said walk organizer Hilly Yehoshua.

“You go to school and you expect to be safe,” said walk organizer Elle Biton.

In Wynwood, artist Manuel Oliver, who lost his son Joaquin in the mass shooting, unveiled “Parkland 17 at Art Walk. The 17-hour exhibit, honoring the 17 victims of the shooting, went on display during the district’s monthly Art Walk.

The event drew out Miami Heat player Dwyane Wade.

 

[rsd1200]

Certainly, if we compare the US to other countries, we have no reason to believe that suicides in the US are unusually common. Indeed, the US is very unremarkable in terms of suicide rates. Deborah Azrael at the Harvard Youth Violence Prevention Center has said "cut it however you want: in places where exposure to guns is higher, more people die of suicide." But, for anyone who can do arithmetic and make simple comparisons, this claim is easily shown to be bunk:

The US comes in between gun-restrictive countries Sweden and Austria, and, of course, has a suicide rates far below that of Japan which is often held up as a paradise of gun-free non-violence. Korea, where privately-owned guns are nearly non-existent, has one of the worst suicide rates in the world. The US also has a suicide rate about equal to Switzerland, which in spite of its reputation as being a country of gun-toters, is estimated to have less than half as many guns per capita as the United States.

(In the US, altitude appears to correlate more with suicide than gun ownership.)

https://mises.org/wire/guns-dont-cause-suicide

Suicide rates

https://data.oecd.org/healthstat/suicide-rates.htm

China is having an alarming rate of child suicides. It is especially high on Sept. 1, when they have to return to school.

I posted a link earlier in the thread.

 

[Karinna]

Suicide rates for young men is a global problem and I expect that something of the same causes are also the causes of young men mass shooters.

I agree, and tend to think these incidents are an accumulation of other problems that our youth face these days as society has broken down in many ways, and there is a lot of mental illness caused by those factors and depression is also at an all time high among populations world wide. An unhealthy society is the symptom of the social disease IMO.

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

Bloomfield Hills students host forum for Democratic candidates for governor

https://www.freep.com/story/news/lo...ratic-candidates-michigan-governor/415160002/

All three candidates at the forum – former Senate Minority Leader Gretchen Whitmer was unable to attend to forum – said they believed that stricter gun controls are needed and teachers should not be armed in schools.

“I would not allow guns in education institutions and religious places. I will not allow teachers to carry guns,” said Thanedar, a retired businessman from Ann Arbor.. “I would ban all automatic and semi-automatic weapons. Those are guns that no one needs.”

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

Colorado Springs students plan walkouts over gun violence

https://www.coloradoan.com/story/ne...ts-plan-walkouts-over-gun-violence/415191002/

The senior squeezed her eyes shut and took a few deep breaths.

The school was undergoing a “shelter in place” drill, an exercise intended to prepare students and staff for an active shooter in the building or some other threat, the Colorado Springs Gazette reported .

“I couldn’t help but think, ‘Are we going to be next?’”

When she leaves class on Wednesday to participate in a national student walkout against school violence, Deanna said she intends to send this message: “We refuse to be the next school.”

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

Eminem Performs Gun Control-Inspired Version of "Nowhere Fast" With Kehlani at iHeartRadio Music Awards

http://www.complex.com/music/2018/0...io-nowhere-fast-parkland-student-introduction

During the performance itself, Eminem added a new intro verse to his Revival song "Nowhere Fast" that focused on gun control. "Gun owners clutching their loaded weapons / They love their guns more than our children," he rapped, before Kehlani joined in.

 

[Jennifer17]

In the countries that have gun control, rural land owners, hunters and sporting shooters still have guns. They do have to be registered and the gun owner have to be a licenced owner. I hear this argument all the time and I think it is invalid. All countries in the world that I know of have hunters who own guns.

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

LA students call for stricter gun control in advance of national march

http://abc7.com/politics/la-students-call-for-stricter-gun-control/3203035/

The group gathered at Laurel Canyon and Ventura Boulevard in Studio City to call for stricter gun laws across the country.

"We may not go to the school that fell victim to the recent shooting, but we are there to support them," said march organizer River Simard. "As far as we are concerned, we are Parkland students."

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

L&G students to walk out in solidarity

http://www.reformer.com/stories/lg-students-to-walk-out-in-solidarity,534367

While she's seen a lot of support for the walkout, Stark said not all students agree with it. She's heard of people who think the idea is stupid or who've said,"walking out of school isn't going to stop gun violence."

"We don't want this to be an us-versus-them issue," Stark said. "I don't want this to be something that divides us."

Stark said she and her peers aren't trying to do away with the second amendment. She just wants more background checks and less violence. "I think the only reason Vermont hasn't had any catastrophes is because of luck and our small population," she said.

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

Brothers pay tribute to Parkland victims in 1,000-mile journey

http://www.kiro7.com/news/trending-...rkland-victims-in-1000-mile-journey/714482106

Walking and running an average of 50 miles a day, the Godbys are 340 miles into their 1,000-mile journey to Washington, D.C.

Their plan is to join thousands of others at the "March For Our Lives Rally" on March 24. The event calls for stronger gun regulations.

 

[bluesneakers]

Eminem Performs Gun Control-Inspired Version of "Nowhere Fast" With Kehlani at iHeartRadio Music Awards

http://www.complex.com/music/2018/0...io-nowhere-fast-parkland-student-introduction

Thanks for posting that.

They were introduced by a Parkland shooting survivor.

“This whole country is going nuts / And the NRA is in our way / They’re responsible for this whole production / They hold the strings, they control the puppet."