Gun Control Debate #4

[EuTuCroquet?]

Defying NRA, Florida legislature passes new rules to impose waiting period, raise purchasing age for long guns

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ng-period-raise-purchasing-age-for-long-guns/

 

[Blef]

Defying NRA, Florida legislature passes new rules to impose waiting period, raise purchasing age for long guns

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ng-period-raise-purchasing-age-for-long-guns/

3 days still seems too short. Although it's a start.

 

[bears10]

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6345a10.htm


Wyoming is an interesting state. My ex grew up there and lost many friends to suicide.

The states with the most suicides are out West... Alaska, Montana, New Mexico, and Utah, while the lowest are in the East...D.C., New Jersey, New York, Massachusetts, and Rhode Island. (From same link)

Anyone have any thoughts as to why that may be?

If someone is determined to end their life, they will find a way. JMO and JME

 

[rsd1200]

Does America have current standards now, or did Trump/Congress literally revoke a huge one earlier this year?

What's left standing, legally speaking? Anyone here know?


TRUMP OVERTURNS A MENTAL HEALTH REGULATION ON GUN PURCHASES

http://www.newsweek.com/trump-set-overturn-guns-mental-health-regulation-557237

I think that if there have been clear enough signs, that a school meeting has been called, and your child has written some very disturbing, (especially if it's in first person), writing assignments, and has shown signs of withdrawing from the family, more-so than would be normal for a child that age, it should be part of the discussion, about whether or not, the parents have any firearms in the home, and if so, are they under lock and key. Be courteous but, let them know that their child may hurt themselves, and they could be liable if the firearms come from their home. Provide them with the Ten Lessons Learned booklet during the meeting. Meet w/o the child first, so it's not as if you're ganging up on him/her.

I'm not a perfect parent, not by any stretch of the imagination, I went through it blindly w/ a child who had ODD, and who is still impulsive and has terrible anxiety. He's also, at this point, institutionalized. He's an adult now and doesn't live with us, but, I still freak out when a call comes in late at night, even though he's currently incarcerated. I find zero humor in the jokes made on WS alluding to prison rape, or "they'll get him on the inside" or "it's too easy on the inside". He's on my mind constantly, not because I think he'll hurt someone, but because I think he'll hurt himself, or someone will hurt him. My advice, again, if you have a kid who is having some difficulties, err on the side of caution. I don't understand not doing so. Take the firearms out of the home, or buy a big @ss safe with a good combo. Put them up anyway. It's amazing how many toddlers have killed folks from finding a parent's firearm.

 

[Blef]

If someone is determined to end their life, they will find a way. JMO and JME

That's not necessarily true, and links to evidence of that have already been posted in this debate. Having the items necessary to suicide not available CAN save lives. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3290984/

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

With such a small population, an increase of one or two murders can adjust the murder RATE drastically. So in that regard, its a little hard to make comparisons unless you see that trend over time.

Wyoming has always had a very high suicide rate. Boom and bust economy, isolation, brutal weather at times.

Im looking at states with a population closest to the size of Wyoming’s. ... VERY interesting.

Nominal, quickie search, for context:

- Wyoming population: 585,501 (2016)
- Gun deaths per 100,000: 17.5 (linked upthread)

Closest U.S. state size by population:
- Vermont: 625,745
- Gun deaths per 100,000: 10.37

... Hm.

Sources:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearm_death_rates_in_the_United_States_by_state

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_population

https://www.google.com/search?q=Pop...j0j4&hl=en-US&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8

 

[human]

Accidental shooting?

https://reverepress.com/news/multiple-students-just-shot-alabama-high-school/

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

Does anyone hear think that big $$lawsuits$$ will create a change in gun laws? I’m hearing there’s some lawsuits beginning against the Broward School system & also the FBI.....

 

[bluesneakers]

If someone is determined to end their life, they will find a way. JMO and JME

Have you missed all the links to science and studies explaining in detail how your JMO isn't the way it actually is?

It's terrible and sad to suggest giving up on someone who is suicidal under the cover of "They're just going to do it anyway."

 

[bears10]

That's not necessarily true, and links to evidence of that have already been posted in this debate. Having the items necessary to suicide not available CAN save lives. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3290984/

One can commit suicide with the contents of their medicine cabinet.

 

[bears10]

Have you missed all the links to science and studies explaining in detail how your JMO isn't the way it actually is?

It's terrible and sad to suggest giving up on someone who is suicidal under the cover of "They're just going to do it anyway."

Rude but okay. I’m just saying as someone who has had very dark thoughts in the past, not having access to a gun did not change those thoughts. A gun wasn’t ever a consideration. So my “JMO” is more of just my EXPERIENCE.

 

[Jennifer17]

One can commit suicide with the contents of their medicine cabinet.

Yes, but there is a greater chance that the person will be discovered or even have second thoughts. With a gun, it is usually pretty final.

 

[bears10]

Yes, but there is a greater chance that the person will be discovered or even have second thoughts. With a gun, it is usually pretty final.

My personal thoughts were/are different but since all of the data that anti gun posters are sourcing say otherwise, my own personal experiences are not valid clearly.

FWIW - suicidal thoughts are a very dark and personal subject. It can be very hard for people who have pulled themselves out of depression to discuss their darkest days. So I think it’s hard to collect true, honest data on such a topic. JME JMO IMO and all that jazz, even though none of that matters on this thread.

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

If someone is determined to end their life, they will find a way. JMO and JME

https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/magazine/magazine_article/guns-suicide/

Respectfully, facts don’t bear that out.

I empathize with anyone who has lost a loved one to completed suicide. [emoji174] I’m sorry if you have, too.

Last night, I tried to make a list of the school-age friends, adult friends, family, co-workers and other loved ones I knew who completed suicide, but stopped counting at 10. Too overwhelming.

That said, there were many more who attempted it than completed it. ... Which is still really effing sad.

We do have a mental health care crisis in America, imo. The ease of access to guns make it deadlier, imo and ime.

Guns & Suicide
The Hidden Toll

https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/magazine/magazine_article/guns-suicide/

“According to Matthew Miller, associate director of the Harvard Injury Control Research Center (HICRC) at Harvard School of Public Health, ‘If every life is important, and if you’re trying to save people from dying by gunfire, then you can’t ignore nearly two-thirds of the people who are dying.’”

 

[rsd1200]

Not allowed to keep records??

Surprisingly, I don't think that there is a central, standard, concrete reporting practice that is mandatory. /s

In 2016, the FBI recorded 11,004 gun homicides. Cases from Florida and Alabama were not included, according to annual supplementary homicide data provided to HuffPost, omissions an FBI spokesperson attributed to state reporting practices and data that didn’t meet federal guidelines. The CDC hasn’t released its final count for 2016, but if previous years are any indicator, its number may end up being substantially higher.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/assault-rifle-deaths-ar-15_us_5a96de5ae4b0e6a52304248a

 

[bluesneakers]

Rude but okay. I’m just saying as someone who has had very dark thoughts in the past, not having access to a gun did not change those thoughts. A gun wasn’t ever a consideration. So my “JMO” is more of just my EXPERIENCE.

You could learn a lot about suicide, and what introducing a gun into the equation means, if you read some of the source links from posts here. Having access to a gun is dangerous for someone who has suicidal ideation, and people who use guns are more likely to complete suicide. I don't understand when people don't want to figure out how to help others who are at their lowest and most vulnerable, and prefer to write them off as "They are going to do it anyway." We know that's not true. People need our help, dismissing their illness and pain does nothing to help anyone.


Suicide rates boosted by easy access to guns, researchers say

'It is often said that people would kill themselves anyway, even if they didn't have access to guns. There is an entire body of research that tells us that is simply not true'

Guns and suicide: A fatal link

A study by the Harvard School of Public Health of all 50 U.S. states reveals a powerful link between rates of firearm ownership and suicides. Based on a survey of American households conducted in 2002, HSPH Assistant Professor of Health Policy and Management Matthew Miller, Research Associate Deborah Azrael, and colleagues at the School’s Injury Control Research Center (ICRC), found that in states where guns were prevalent—as in Wyoming, where 63 percent of households reported owning guns—rates of suicide were higher. The inverse was also true: where gun ownership was less common, suicide rates were also lower.

The lesson? Many lives would likely be saved if people disposed of their firearms, kept them locked away, or stored them outside the home. Says HSPH Professor of Health Policy David Hemenway, the ICRC’s director: “Studies show that most attempters act on impulse, in moments of panic or despair. Once the acute feelings ease, 90 percent do not go on to die by suicide.”

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

Rude but okay. I’m just saying as someone who has had very dark thoughts in the past, not having access to a gun did not change those thoughts. A gun wasn’t ever a consideration. So my “JMO” is more of just my EXPERIENCE.

And, thankfully, you’re still with us, bears10. ❤️

 

[bluesneakers]

One can commit suicide with the contents of their medicine cabinet.

But they are less likely to complete suicide by OD than by gun, which means they can get treatment and might not ever make another attempt. Ninety percent of the time one impulsive attempt with a gun and it's over. No help, no treatment, no recovery.

 

[bears10]

Surprisingly, I don't think that there is a central, standard, concrete reporting practice that is mandatory. /s

In 2016, the FBI recorded 11,004 gun homicides. Cases from Florida and Alabama were not included, according to annual supplementary homicide data provided to HuffPost, omissions an FBI spokesperson attributed to state reporting practices and data that didn’t meet federal guidelines. The CDC hasn’t released its final count for 2016, but if previous years are any indicator, its number may end up being substantially higher.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/assault-rifle-deaths-ar-15_us_5a96de5ae4b0e6a52304248a

You’d be hard pressed to get me to do a survey or discuss my darkest days for the purpose of a study. It’s not something I enjoy talking about, and I can imagine many others feel the same as myself. I regret sharing my experience with you all since you just want to shove “facts” and “statistics” in my face when I can tell you that those statistics may not be accurate.

 

[bears10]

You could learn a lot about suicide, and what introducing a gun into the equation means, if you read some of the source links from posts here. Having access to a gun is dangerous for someone who has suicidal ideation, and people who use guns are more likely to complete suicide. I don't understand when people don't want to figure out how to help others who are at their lowest and most vulnerable, and prefer to write them off as "They are going to do it anyway." We know that's not true. People need our help, dismissing their illness and pain does nothing to help anyone.


Suicide rates boosted by easy access to guns, researchers say



Guns and suicide: A fatal link

Have you literally read none of my posts? I could learn a lot about suicide??!! I. Was. Suicidal. JFC.