Gun Control Debate #6

[human]

In every single instance involving mass shootings, the common link is a mentally disturbed individual.

Some of these people might have obtained a firearm legally, while many others did not. And in most cases they broke numerous "gun laws" prior to even pulling the trigger. It is not legal in most states for someone of school age to possess a handgun. And bringing the weapon within so many yards of a school is also against the law in most places. What mentally disturbed individual even cares about gun laws?

The focus of school violence prevention efforts should be on identifying persons with mental and emotional problems and getting them the counseling or medication they need to function and to properly behave. Lacking that, they need to be institutionalized for the protection of other students. Institutions could include various types of Special schools or even mental hospitals.

Expanding on this, society as a whole would benefit if more attention were focussed on mental health issues. Unfortunately, our criminal justice system is largely a revolving door at the court house, and most mental health issues are given only rudimentary lip service.

Money is available and already allocated to public schools for Special Education (which includes programs for emotionally disturbed students). Unfortunately, in many places this money is mismanaged and schools actually go out of their way to deny these programs to students in need of them. Parents of special needs children have to be proactive and fight very hard to get their kids into such programs, and it is always an up hill battle all the way. In the end, it often involves very expensive law suits. Losing only one of these law suits costs the school system enough money to have paid for a dozen counselors or special education teachers.

Sadly lacking is any responsible reporting by the news media on recent mass killings. Before any facts regarding who, how, what, etc. are known, they are already babeling about the need for gun control. How many news programs have actually reported on the shooters and their mental issues?

How many of the kids who marched on Washington would consider calling for a ban on violent video games? How many of them watch violent movies or TV shows which glorify murder and violence? And how about the Movie and TV celebs who make appearances to support gun control? They most certainly would be the last to suggest that Hollywood stop producing violent movies.

Making the debate about "gun control" rather than addressing the true problem of mental illness, is not productive. On one hand, you have people who know how to handle firearms properly, and who have a strong belief in the Constitutional Right to Keep and Bear Arms. On the other hand, you have people who know little or nothing about firearms who think that some kind of gun law or ban is the answer. No gun law has ever been successful in reducing violent crime.

There are, and have always been, anti-gun folks whose agenda it is to disarm the country, and they welcome any opportunity to further their agenda. Their arguments are always the same and they include such words as "common sense", "high capacity magazines", "assault rifles", and lately "gun safety". (Ironic since the NRA has been the leader in promoting gun safety for over a hundred years.) Second Amendment supporters know the tricks and arguments of the anti-gunners and will stand up to them without concession because of the long history of their attacks.

Wow.

Special education has definitions made by the Federal govt.

My experience as a teacher was that parents are not trying to get their children into special education. Rather, it is a long process involving a lot of diplomacy on the teacher’s part.

Who wants to hear that their child has issues? What I saw ,when a teacher suggested looking at a child because of certain issues, parents pulled their child and start shopping around for a different school.

“Mental institutions” can be googled. Scary places.

Adults cannot be forced to take medication. Are we to go to some kind of society that denies human rights? Where I live in a Third World country now with no guns, the mentally ill live on the street even though they have family.

They get a monthly allowance but because they would spend it all in one day, they go to the city hall and get a daily allowance. They also see the free doctor once a month to determine that they are taking their meds. No meds, no money.

Here they get to see the same movies and play the same violent games as everyhwere. They have the interenet. There are tremendous social problems and high unemployment. They have psychotropic drugs although because of free health care, I know of people with issues who have been hospitalized for a year. Sexual abuse as children causes many issues.

But, no guns.

 

[ohreally]

What a novel idea. March against guns one day, and drive someone to shoot another the next.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/03/2...-with-capital-murder-in-alabama-shooting.html

 

[Richard]

Could you please provide some links to support your assertions, such as schools get special education funding but mismanage it and go out of their way to not provide services?

To clarify, are you saying schools get enough funds to actually provide the needed services but just don't do it?

Also if you've ever worked with residential placements for children with special needs, particularly those of the psychological variety, how easy was it to get placement?

Are you an expert in children's mental health just curious?

--------------------------

My post was not about my personal qualifications as an "expert", - but if adopting and raising three children with special needs and being a trained "thearaputic foster parent" is worth anything, then I guess I have some experience in these matters.

Federal and State Funding IS available to each and every school system nationwide for Special Education. Some systems have better programs and organizations than others. As to whether they get enough money or need more, I cannot say, since I don't live in every state or county. My feeling is that more effort and money IS needed, but having seen one of the worst school systems in the country at work, I think any money sent to them would only be wasted and diverted.

My personal experience with my state and county is that the public school system is horribly run - across the board. This is especially true of their mismanagement of special education placement.

After numerous roadblocks to special education placed before my children by the school system, I sued them several times in court. I incurred a rather high cost doing that, but the county paid a much higher price because they lost those cases and had to pay for very expensive private special education placements of my kids.

The problem is that they COULD have simply done their jobs in the first place instead of stonewalling on the issue. I have often wondered how many other parents simply gave up in their attempts to get needed services for their children. And of course, how many other kids were never identified as needing them - certainly the school system made no effort to do so.

When a student is identified as needing special education, the school will always try to provide the absolute least amount of services. Maybe an hour of "special ed study hall" every other day, or maybe an after school tutor, etc. They try to avoid at all costs having an Individualized Education Plan (IEP) because that means that they have to actually account for the child's progress. Instead they will offer the parents a "504 Plan" which looks kind of like an IEP, but can be ignored by the school and no reporting is required.

In my state, each county has a "Youth Facility" which is a sort of lock-up for Juvenile Offenders awaiting court trials for various offenses - including very violent crimes. I once asked the Psychiatrist who worked at the nearby Youth Facility what percentage of the kids held there had IEP's for emotional or mental issues. He told me that about a quarter of them did, but that probably more like 90 percent of them would qualify for them.

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

Sadly lacking is any responsible reporting by the news media on recent mass killings. Before any facts regarding who, how, what, etc. are known, they are already babeling about the need for gun control. How many news programs have actually reported on the shooters and their mental issues?

.

The MAIN reason any of us know anything about any of these shootings or the people who commit them is because the press is doing its job.

If you haven’t seen it, this thread is full of really good, factual, thorough reporting. Often it requires more reading, as that’s the medium that generally affords more depth than TV.

 

[kimlynn]

What they seem to be achieving is a lot of fervor through screaming and shaming narratives that applying some acute pressure. The pressure to do something, anything, such as token bans on bump stocks and potentially bans on select gun platforms that won't stop shootings.

I don't see how they can sustain the attention their emotional tirade is currently providing. There's a point at which an audience tunes out the same rant/rage theater, different day.

It's as if they don't connect the dots between the political history of the generations they think are too stupid and old to have a voice, and their own current right to use their voices. ?

The remarks within the 'movement' that the Constitution is essentially archaic are frankly astounding.

The march signs quoting content from retired Justice Stevens' op/ed three days before it was published in the NYT are also fascinating. Not only in a psychic kind of way, but because some of the most vocal protestors have insisted that repealing 2A is not one of their goals. The Stevens remarks say two things pretty clearly:

"They should demand a repeal of the Second Amendment...

Overturning that decision via a constitutional amendment to get rid of the Second Amendment would be simple and would do more to weaken the N.R.A.’s ability to stymie legislative debate and block constructive gun control legislation than any other available option.

That simple but dramatic action would move Saturday’s marchers closer to their objective than any other possible reform. It would eliminate the only legal rule that protects sellers of firearms in the United States — unlike every other market in the world."
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/27/opinion/john-paul-stevens-repeal-second-amendment.html

So, 2A repeal is indeed a goal. And it's about weakening the impact and influence of a particular political lobby. Let's let that just hang out there for a moment. A former SCOTUS Justice wants to amend the Constitution to silence the NRA and kick an annoying legal rule to the curb that protects select market actors. Or, another way to look at it is, on a claim of too much stymied legislative debate, Stevens would like to change up the Constitution to stymie the NRA's ability to debate legislative actions.

Didn't we settle 1A a long time ago, or are we repealing that too? Or, are we just limiting speech and market access to certain lobbies?

You really have to wonder how all this supports the claim that "We don't want to take away people's guns" and "It's not about red or blue".

Here's where the test lies: What other political lobbies would it be reasonable to silence by Constitutional amendment? My guess is, SCOTUS will be answering that. I guess we'll have to stay tuned to see if the Constitution is all that archaic.

I can't speak for the victims families from Las Vegas but I doubt they would find a ban on bump stocks as a token move.
Former Justice Stevens is voicing his opinion as are many people.
That doesn't mean that the youths marching and protesting are of the same mind.
Some do think the 2A is archaic. I agree. It's like the bible. People can read into it to suit their own agenda or beliefs.
The NRA already has more sway than they should with our laws. I don't think we need to consult them for every gun law that might make it to the table. IMO

 

[Woodland]

In every single instance involving mass shootings, the common link is a mentally disturbed individual.

Some of these people might have obtained a firearm legally, while many others did not. And in most cases they broke numerous "gun laws" prior to even pulling the trigger. It is not legal in most states for someone of school age to possess a handgun. And bringing the weapon within so many yards of a school is also against the law in most places. What mentally disturbed individual even cares about gun laws?

The focus of school violence prevention efforts should be on identifying persons with mental and emotional problems and getting them the counseling or medication they need to function and to properly behave. Lacking that, they need to be institutionalized for the protection of other students. Institutions could include various types of Special schools or even mental hospitals.

Expanding on this, society as a whole would benefit if more attention were focussed on mental health issues. Unfortunately, our criminal justice system is largely a revolving door at the court house, and most mental health issues are given only rudimentary lip service.

Money is available and already allocated to public schools for Special Education (which includes programs for emotionally disturbed students). Unfortunately, in many places this money is mismanaged and schools actually go out of their way to deny these programs to students in need of them. Parents of special needs children have to be proactive and fight very hard to get their kids into such programs, and it is always an up hill battle all the way. In the end, it often involves very expensive law suits. Losing only one of these law suits costs the school system enough money to have paid for a dozen counselors or special education teachers.

Sadly lacking is any responsible reporting by the news media on recent mass killings. Before any facts regarding who, how, what, etc. are known, they are already babeling about the need for gun control. How many news programs have actually reported on the shooters and their mental issues?

How many of the kids who marched on Washington would consider calling for a ban on violent video games? How many of them watch violent movies or TV shows which glorify murder and violence? And how about the Movie and TV celebs who make appearances to support gun control? They most certainly would be the last to suggest that Hollywood stop producing violent movies.

Making the debate about "gun control" rather than addressing the true problem of mental illness, is not productive. On one hand, you have people who know how to handle firearms properly, and who have a strong belief in the Constitutional Right to Keep and Bear Arms. On the other hand, you have people who know little or nothing about firearms who think that some kind of gun law or ban is the answer. No gun law has ever been successful in reducing violent crime.

There are, and have always been, anti-gun folks whose agenda it is to disarm the country, and they welcome any opportunity to further their agenda. Their arguments are always the same and they include such words as "common sense", "high capacity magazines", "assault rifles", and lately "gun safety". (Ironic since the NRA has been the leader in promoting gun safety for over a hundred years.) Second Amendment supporters know the tricks and arguments of the anti-gunners and will stand up to them without concession because of the long history of their attacks.

I see much of the opinions here have been addressed, would like to address the BBM -

To me, this part reads as an 'us vs them' view. According to the post, there are only 2 types of thinking on guns in the US - responsible owners and those that know little about guns and want laws or bans on guns.

There are many more categories than that imo. Left out of the equation are irresponsible gun owners - people driving along with their minor children in the backseat and a shot from a loose gun in the car rings out. Someone in the family is injured or dead. Also left out are gun owners that do not lock their guns away from minor children and the many other people in their lives - the gun goes missing, sometimes reported, sometimes not and sometimes used to shoot others.

Imo, it's unproductive to insist that the social ills of the country be fixed before addressing gun control laws. Have never seen that mental illness is the only problem where guns are concerned - many also argue it's only the criminal element that will take a gun and shoot innocent people. Imo both assumptions are wrong.

Fwiw, I find the arguments are the same on the 'us' side - someone should fix mental illness problems, someone should fix criminal behavior, someone should make sure money allocated for certain areas is administered properly, all media reports incorrectly and 'us' seems to know what other people are or are not thinking 'they most certainly would be the last to suggest that Hollywood stop producing violent movies'.

All jmo.

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

In every single instance involving mass shootings, the common link is a mentally disturbed individual.
.

Link, please. TIA!!

I’ll also add that the overwhelming majority of mass shooters are male.

Does correlation mean causation? (Hint: It’s a rhetorical question. [emoji6])

https://www.statista.com/statistics/476445/mass-shootings-in-the-us-by-shooter-s-gender/

“The statistic shows the number of mass shootings in the United States between 1982 and February 2018, by gender of the shooter(s). Between 1982 and February 2018, 2 mass shootings were initiated by female shooters, 94 by male shooters. The mass shooting in San Bernardino on December 2nd 2016 was the only instance in which both a male and female were the shooters.”

Hm.

 

[Richard]

Wow....

... Adults cannot be forced to take medication. Are we to go to some kind of society that denies human rights? Where I live in a Third World country now with no guns, the mentally ill live on the street even though they have family.

They get a monthly allowance but because they would spend it all in one day, they go to the city hall and get a daily allowance. They also see the free doctor once a month to determine that they are taking their meds. No meds, no money.....

What you describe is not that different from some people and places in the United States. When mental hospitals and institutions were closed down some years ago - due in part to abuses and mismanagement - many of the patients ended up living as homeless, unemployed street people. Still true today for many with mental health issues.

Actually, adults CAN be required to take medication and attend counseling - but it is often a condition of probation or parole AFTER being sentenced for some sort of crime. It varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction as to how this is monitored. I would emphasize, however, that the person being sentenced usually has to provide the evidence of their mental condition and/or agree to continuing medication and counseling.

Confinement in a mental hospital in the United States is usually only for short periods, and the person has to be considered a danger to himself or others. They are "stabilized" on medication and monitored for about 5 to 7 days and then released with a prescription for meds and a recommendation that they seek Psychiatric care and counseling. Of course, it is up to the released patient to follow through.

In the US, a person with mental or emotional issues can be considered disabled by Social Security and with the proper evidence or diagnosis. He or she could receive disability payments monthly, and could qualify for Medicaid coverage. Unfortunately, many do not consider themselves disabled and do not know to apply for such benefits.

 

[human]

What a novel idea. March against guns one day, and drive someone to shoot another the next.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/03/2...-with-capital-murder-in-alabama-shooting.html

I doubt if he knew the guy was going to shoot.

 

[human]

--------------------------

My post was not about my personal qualifications as an "expert", - but if adopting and raising three children with special needs and being a trained "thearaputic foster parent" is worth anything, then I guess I have some experience in these matters.

Federal and State Funding IS available to each and every school system nationwide for Special Education. Some systems have better programs and organizations than others. As to whether they get enough money or need more, I cannot say, since I don't live in every state or county. My feeling is that more effort and money IS needed, but having seen one of the worst school systems in the country at work, I think any money sent to them would only be wasted and diverted.

My personal experience with my state and county is that the public school system is horribly run - across the board. This is especially true of their mismanagement of special education placement.

After numerous roadblocks to special education placed before my children by the school system, I sued them several times in court. I incurred a rather high cost doing that, but the county paid a much higher price because they lost those cases and had to pay for very expensive private special education placements of my kids.

The problem is that they COULD have simply done their jobs in the first place instead of stonewalling on the issue. I have often wondered how many other parents simply gave up in their attempts to get needed services for their children. And of course, how many other kids were never identified as needing them - certainly the school system made no effort to do so.

When a student is identified as needing special education, the school will always try to provide the absolute least amount of services. Maybe an hour of "special ed study hall" every other day, or maybe an after school tutor, etc. They try to avoid at all costs having an Individualized Education Plan (IEP) because that means that they have to actually account for the child's progress. Instead they will offer the parents a "504 Plan" which looks kind of like an IEP, but can be ignored by the school and no reporting is required.

In my state, each county has a "Youth Facility" which is a sort of lock-up for Juvenile Offenders awaiting court trials for various offenses - including very violent crimes. I once asked the Psychiatrist who worked at the nearby Youth Facility what percentage of the kids held there had IEP's for emotional or mental issues. He told me that about a quarter of them did, but that probably more like 90 percent of them would qualify for them.

Special education is an unfunded mandate by the Feds. How much does your school district get from the Feds? How are your schools funded? Are the tax payers willing to pay more taxes? Special education is very expensive. Where are the funds coming from to,pay for it in your district?

A parent is the one who signs off on the IEP. You get to discuss it and have it explained and have your concerns addressed.

It is true that schools try to save money as there is not enough. Special ed takes a lot. It is good to,have an educated advocate with you at the meetings to avoid issues. I imagine there is an advocate in your area.

 

[human]

What you describe is not that different from some people and places in the United States. When mental hospitals and institutions were closed down some years ago - due in part to abuses and mismanagement - many of the patients ended up living as homeless, unemployed street people. Still true today for many with mental health issues.

Actually, adults CAN be required to take medication and attend counseling - but it is often a condition of probation or parole AFTER being sentenced for some sort of crime. It varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction as to how this is monitored. I would emphasize, however, that the person being sentenced usually has to provide the evidence of their mental condition and/or agree to continuing medication and counseling.

In the US, a person with mental or emotional issues can be considered disabled by Social Security and with the proper evidence or diagnosis. He or she could receive disability payments monthly, and could qualify for Medicaid coverage. Unfortunately, many do not consider themselves disabled and do not know to apply for such benefits.

Actually the institutions were closed down with the idea of having community based mental health. Obviously, it never happened.

Where I live there is free universal health care for all so it is easier to get help. If any caused harm, they would be taken away. Not sure where. Everyone accepts the fact that they are a part of the population. Tourists do get freaked out sometimes when one has screaming fights with himself.

 

[ohreally]

I doubt if he knew the guy was going to shoot.

Her mother seems to think differently and with the arrest I would think LE knows a lot more that transpired than has been released. http://www.dothaneagle.com/news/cri...cle_803021c4-3202-11e8-acca-0750404676db.html

 

[flourish]

--------------------------

My post was not about my personal qualifications as an "expert", - but if adopting and raising three children with special needs and being a trained "thearaputic foster parent" is worth anything, then I guess I have some experience in these matters.

Federal and State Funding IS available to each and every school system nationwide for Special Education. Some systems have better programs and organizations than others. As to whether they get enough money or need more, I cannot say, since I don't live in every state or county. My feeling is that more effort and money IS needed, but having seen one of the worst school systems in the country at work, I think any money sent to them would only be wasted and diverted.

My personal experience with my state and county is that the public school system is horribly run - across the board. This is especially true of their mismanagement of special education placement.

After numerous roadblocks to special education placed before my children by the school system, I sued them several times in court. I incurred a rather high cost doing that, but the county paid a much higher price because they lost those cases and had to pay for very expensive private special education placements of my kids.

The problem is that they COULD have simply done their jobs in the first place instead of stonewalling on the issue. I have often wondered how many other parents simply gave up in their attempts to get needed services for their children. And of course, how many other kids were never identified as needing them - certainly the school system made no effort to do so.

When a student is identified as needing special education, the school will always try to provide the absolute least amount of services. Maybe an hour of "special ed study hall" every other day, or maybe an after school tutor, etc. They try to avoid at all costs having an Individualized Education Plan (IEP) because that means that they have to actually account for the child's progress. Instead they will offer the parents a "504 Plan" which looks kind of like an IEP, but can be ignored by the school and no reporting is required.

In my state, each county has a "Youth Facility" which is a sort of lock-up for Juvenile Offenders awaiting court trials for various offenses - including very violent crimes. I once asked the Psychiatrist who worked at the nearby Youth Facility what percentage of the kids held there had IEP's for emotional or mental issues. He told me that about a quarter of them did, but that probably more like 90 percent of them would qualify for them.

Thank you, that was a thoughtful, reasonable answer. My personal experience with special education has been as a teacher, briefly as a parent, and as a representative of a residential agency for kids and adults with various disabilities, intellectual and, usually, co-morbid mental health issues.

Having the opportunity to see it from all those perspectives and various districts and individual schools, I've seen first-hand the great disparities in the quality, or lack thereof, of special education services. Some places handle it very well, but others... Not to get too specific, but recently I witnessed a situation where a student engaged in self-injurious behavior, which is not remotely atypical in that population, and boom school called an emergency IEP meeting and I literally had to arrange for the removal of that child from the school that very day and she was not welcome back on the campus, but long story short it's not considered denying her an education in the least restrictive setting because of a bunch of BS loophole carp I won't hijack the thread any longer but suffice it to say I'm horrified by the situation, but I've also seen amazing individualized and appropriate, even ideal, situations, as well.

I guess I took your post earlier as stated as blanket fact.

 

[flourish]

Some do think the 2A is archaic. I agree. It's like the bible. People can read into it to suit their own agenda or beliefs.
The NRA already has more sway than they should with our laws. I don't think we need to consult them for every gun law that might make it to the table. IMO

RSBM


So. Much. This.

 

[human]

Thank you, that was a thoughtful, reasonable answer. My personal experience with special education has been as a teacher, briefly as a parent, and as a representative of a residential agency for kids and adults with various disabilities, intellectual and, usually, co-morbid mental health issues.

Having the opportunity to see it from all those perspectives and various districts and individual schools, I've seen first-hand the great disparities in the quality, or lack thereof, of special education services. Some places handle it very well, but others... Not to get too specific, but recently I witnessed a situation where a student engaged in self-injurious behavior, which is not remotely atypical in that population, and boom school called an emergency IEP meeting and I literally had to arrange for the removal of that child from the school that very day and she was not welcome back on the campus, but long story short it's not considered denying her an education in the least restrictive setting because of a bunch of BS loophole carp I won't hijack the thread any longer but suffice it to say I'm horrified by the situation, but I've also seen amazing individualized and appropriate, even ideal, situations, as well.

I guess I took your post earlier as stated as blanket fact.

No parent to discuss it? The parent has to agree on the IEP.

It could be that there are so many other issues in the class that they do not have the staff to deal with the child injuring herself and then they have to answer for the injury?

 

[flourish]

What you describe is not that different from some people and places in the United States. When mental hospitals and institutions were closed down some years ago - due in part to abuses and mismanagement - many of the patients ended up living as homeless, unemployed street people. Still true today for many with mental health issues.

Actually, adults CAN be required to take medication and attend counseling - but it is often a condition of probation or parole AFTER being sentenced for some sort of crime. It varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction as to how this is monitored. I would emphasize, however, that the person being sentenced usually has to provide the evidence of their mental condition and/or agree to continuing medication and counseling.

Confinement in a mental hospital in the United States is usually only for short periods, and the person has to be considered a danger to himself or others. They are "stabilized" on medication and monitored for about 5 to 7 days and then released with a prescription for meds and a recommendation that they seek Psychiatric care and counseling. Of course, it is up to the released patient to follow through.

In the US, a person with mental or emotional issues can be considered disabled by Social Security and with the proper evidence or diagnosis. He or she could receive disability payments monthly, and could qualify for Medicaid coverage. Unfortunately, many do not consider themselves disabled and do not know to apply for such benefits.

Are you educated regarding the true reality and costs of successfully being awarded disability benefits for mental illness?

"In the U.S., less than half of all people*who apply for disability benefits — about 45 percent — are ultimately accepted, says*Lisa Ekman*with the*National Organization of Social Security Claimants' Representatives. Getting a hearing takes an average of*nearly 600 days."

Read more at https://www.npr.org/sections/health...ities-could-suffer-under-new-government-rules, please

 

[human]

Are you educated regarding the true reality and costs of successfully being awarded disability benefits for mental illness?

"In the U.S., less than half of all people*who apply for disability benefits — about 45 percent — are ultimately accepted, says*Lisa Ekman*with the*National Organization of Social Security Claimants' Representatives. Getting a hearing takes an average of*nearly 600 days."

Read more at https://www.npr.org/sections/health...ities-could-suffer-under-new-government-rules, please

It is so “funny” here because I meet many people who think these people are faking it with mental health issues so they can get their free money. It is something like $300 to $800 a month depending on who you talk to. Like the US, people have their impressions of the free ride others get .

There are not enough people to deal with mental health issues in the US, And is the public willing to pay?

 

[bluesneakers]

In the US, a person with mental or emotional issues can be considered disabled by Social Security and with the proper evidence or diagnosis. He or she could receive disability payments monthly, and could qualify for Medicaid coverage. Unfortunately, many do not consider themselves disabled and do not know to apply for such benefits.

Most don't get it and even when they do it's sometimes not enough to live on.

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

Opinion: Has gun reform reached a tipping point?
http://theweek.com/articles/763247/gun-reform-reached-tipping-point

It's safe to say that the forces favoring gun reform are more organized and motivated now than they've been at least since the early 1990s when the Brady law and an assault weapons ban were passed, and maybe ever. We've certainly never seen mass protests on the scale of the ones last weekend, where a couple million people (though we don't have a precise number) demonstrated in hundreds of cities and towns across the country demanding new restrictions on guns.

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

Rally at State Capitol calling for gun reform while respecting 2nd Amendment rights

http://www.fox10phoenix.com/news/ar...-reform-while-respecting-2nd-amendment-rights

Gun reform supporters gathered at the State Capitol in Downtown Phoenix on Tuesday, as a bipartisan group underlined their support for the 2nd Amendment right to bear arms, while urging lawmakers and Gov. Ducey to pass laws to help keep guns out of the wrong hands.