Hannah's Journey on 09/13

[jamicat]

What I still can't get a grip on is why nobody missed her until Sunday afternoon? She seemed very popular, involved in a lot of groups, etc., etc. She's going from party to party all alone, wandering around in the wee hours of the night texting people that she's lost, and no one even knew she never came home? Very strange...

She's a college coed. I had roommates I didn't miss for days. Because of their lack of communications, lack of schedule. The alarm was raised rather early for her IMO. Some of the missing women in that roll call we have on the forum weren't missed for a longer time because they frequently disappeared and resurfaced.

I have a lot of college aged and young adult children, and their friends are always around here too. I visit a lot of college towns. Checked out Charlottesville this summer. It's not at all unusual to see young people roaming around alone. Not strange at all. Sadly not strange. I've said before, in my day, I went to college in a city, an area far more sketchy than Charlottesville and I don't know one single person who disappeared, died or got raped the way Hannah did. In those days, we did stick together and walk each other home. The danger was more the college class mate walking you home. But they didn't tend to kill.

 

[jamicat]

The very early reports said that HG's last text said, "I'm lost, come find me." What do people think? That the report was erroneous? That it said something like, "I'm almost to Wertland and 14th, but I'm lost, come find me" as in, I don't know exactly where the party is but I've been wandering around for like an hour and I'm sick of trying to find it so please help? I'm curious about whether the early reports were just wrong, or if there's more to her text than is now being discussed.

I thought the last Text was the one referring to Wertland and 14th. Don't remember exact wording. I think a text did say "I'm lost, come find me" or something of that sort too, but it was not the last one, from what I remember. But I still am not sure what was established as the time that the last text was written. There was some issue with the timeing. LE seemed to indicate that she was in texting, in touch with classmates, friends. I think they were busy partying and were intoxicated and otherwise incapacitated themselves by that time and it would have been the lost looking for the lost Certainly in no shape to drive. I think that's why JM, if he offered a ride, would have seemed like the perfect answer to Hannah. It's late, she's in a strange area, she's lost, she's confused, intoxicated, her friends are not forthcoming to help, she's tired, doesn't want to walk back home, and I"ll bet her phone was dead. No wallet, cards or money either, is my guess.

 

[Evie Ivy Over]

Here is something that I have been wondering......unless I missed something, LE said "she texted friends". Who were those friends. Could she have, in fact, texted Jesse Matthew if she was, indeed , meeting him? There are several assumptions out there of what made JM a "POI".....his car, the video, eye-witness testimony etc. Could she, have in fact, texted JM? To me , "lost" at anyplace when you clearly see the signs means, that, if she really typed those words, she was "lost" because she was in an area with which she was unfamiliar and she had a specific destination in mind. In my mind, (and I know C'ville and the Pedestrian DM well), no one (male, female, young, old etc.) would walk the route that HG took from camput to the DM and she HAD to have a reason for going there and , IMO, it was to meet up with someone because look at the time! No one is going to walk that far to the DM at that time of night (morning) because , even if she was of legal age,everything would be closing!

I hate to say this, but I think (as I did NOT think initially), that HG was meeting up with JM for some reason and that he told her that if she could meet him on the DM, he could give her a ride back to her apartment. Again, all MO. If the above hypothesis is correct, then it would make sense that he had HER meet HIM at the DM.....anonymity of behavior (except for those pesky cameras).

If this hypothesis is correct, then I wonder just what OTHER text messages left HG's phone earlier in the evening......perhaps texts to / from JM about meeting on the DM? Again, just a possible scenario. Back to my original comment......I'm sure that LE has the texts that preceeded the "lost" text and those prior texts may end up being quite significant.

Gee, maybe that's why we're not hearing much about her texts--that the "friend" she was texting was JM. I do have a theory she connected with JM via one of those social media sites some have mentioned earlier that college kids use to make party hook-ups. I see a scenario where JM and HG discussed meeting up at the Blue Light Grill. As things happened, he wasn't there when she arrived. Very soon after she got to the DM, she texted that she was "coming to a party but I'm lost..."(and referenced 14th & Wertland for some unknown reason). Suppose that text was to him, and what it meant was that she had entered the mall at 2nd St NW rather than 2nd St NE and didn't see the Blue Light Grill where she thought it would be? The timing seems so right that he got the text, left Tempo and found her in front of Sal's....and that's why WG said she seemed comfortable with JM, that she seemed to know him. JMO.

 

[Evie Ivy Over]

She's a college coed. I had roommates I didn't miss for days. Because of their lack of communications, lack of schedule. The alarm was raised rather early for her IMO. Some of the missing women in that roll call we have on the forum weren't missed for a longer time because they frequently disappeared and resurfaced.

I have a lot of college aged and young adult children, and their friends are always around here too. I visit a lot of college towns. Checked out Charlottesville this summer. It's not at all unusual to see young people roaming around alone. Not strange at all. Sadly not strange. I've said before, in my day, I went to college in a city, an area far more sketchy than Charlottesville and I don't know one single person who disappeared, died or got raped the way Hannah did. In those days, we did stick together and walk each other home. The danger was more the college class mate walking you home. But they didn't tend to kill.

I think it means she didn't have any really close friendships established yet. Or maybe she was just an independent, which is a little odd for people who gravitate towards team sports. In any event, I think it's really sad...

 

[themom]

I do think it's possible she was intending to meet up with JM specifically. For marijuana. I think he's a drug dealer. Pure speculation, nothing at all to back that up.
But I can't understand where she would know him from...maybe bc JM is a local, a friend of hers from UVa gave her his # as a person to buy from?
Could that be what the high five woman was handing JM?

 

[Charlie Chan]

I do think it's possible she was intending to meet up with JM specifically. For marijuana. I think he's a drug dealer. Pure speculation, nothing at all to back that up.
But I can't understand where she would know him from...maybe bc JM is a local, a friend of hers from UVa gave her his # as a person to buy from?
Could that be what the high five woman was handing JM?

I agree. I think JM is involved with drugs and not just on the "user" level. I don't want to get into trouble by posting the wrong things, but there have been several on the forum who did some research on someone connected to his FB account that would strenghthen this assumption. As for how HG knew JM.....(if she did).....in college towns, students know where they can go to buy drugs of any kind. It's not hard. Perhaps she had never met him BEFORE and this was a first meeting , which might explain why JM didn't cross immediately over the DM when he saw her...perhaps he needed to make sure that it was the gal whom he was meeting.

 

[ThinkHard]

Gee, maybe that's why we're not hearing much about her texts--that the "friend" she was texting was JM. I do have a theory she connected with JM via one of those social media sites some have mentioned earlier that college kids use to make party hook-ups. I see a scenario where JM and HG discussed meeting up at the Blue Light Grill. As things happened, he wasn't there when she arrived. Very soon after she got to the DM, she texted that she was "coming to a party but I'm lost..."(and referenced 14th & Wertland for some unknown reason). Suppose that text was to him, and what it meant was that she had entered the mall at 2nd St NW rather than 2nd St NE and didn't see the Blue Light Grill where she thought it would be? The timing seems so right that he got the text, left Tempo and found her in front of Sal's....and that's why WG said she seemed comfortable with JM, that she seemed to know him. JMO.

Good points! If WG is who I think he is, what I can imagine him thinking is "That girls drunk. That guys a creep. But, she seems to know him and want to be with him, (for god know what reason), so who am I to get in the way" [shrug...go back to rapture].

 

[jamicat]

I think it means she didn't have any really close friendships established yet. Or maybe she was just an independent, which is a little odd for people who gravitate towards team sports. In any event, I think it's really sad...

It's really the way it often is these days. I've walked many a college area street, and seen many young women walking after dark alone. Sometimes in the very wee hours and inebriated or otherwise affected. Charlotte Spierer, the mother of the missing IU coed, Lauren, sadly noted solitary young women in not so great condition walking the very streets her daughter did the day she disappeared and not a year had even gone by.

I Was not alone, nor ineberiated, walking those streets, and so it was clear that a lot of the young people were. I've spent the last 14 years in college areas. It's not just women who should not be alone like that either. I know a young man who did not make it home when he was drunk. Another who fell, hit his head badly, made his way to a party anyways where everyone was so out it, they didn't notice he was hurt and he lay down on a sofa and died. Yet another who was kidnapped for his car in a parking lot in a shopping center (though he was NOT inebriated, nor was it that late at night a freak event, nonetheless ended up dead).

 

[LI-Mom]

I agree with this. With some exceptions, such when a deliberate trap is being set. I don't think at the time when LE was trying to find out who was with Hannah at the mall, that was the case. It was simply confusion, IMO. WG went to LE, when the word came out that Hannah was missing because he remembered seeing her. He either did not pay much attention to JM, or wasn't interested in identifying him, I tend to go with the earlier assumption because WG really did not have to go report to LE. Though the case is about as high profile as they come, a surprising number of people barely paid it any mind Hapens all of the time.

In short order, LE, by visiting the mall, was able to get a description and a name, JM, as to who was with Hannah They were seen there, and JM was known to many at the mall, so it wasn't that difficult to get that connection. The videos, IMO, are such bad quality, that unless someone knew what was on there, making any accurate statement is nigh impossible. But if there, it helps joggle the memory cells. We have to remember that while it was happening, it was not any big deal. People who have drunk too much at that time of day on a weekend are common fare.

I see no reason for LE to have lied about JM's appearance as it only causes confusion and hampers further ID of him. And they were clearly "desperate" (their own words) for sightings of him and/or Hannah during those days. Confusing matters makes no sense.

I can see LE giving an incorrect description and taking the focus off JM for a few reasons:

As soon as they got JM's name downtown they ran it, got his address and description of his car. They put him under surveillance to see if he could lead them to Hannah or catch him getting rid of evidence. It also bought more time to check surveillance cameras from the mall.

It screened out people that didn't see Hannah that night with JM but for whatever reason want their 15 minutes of fame. Anyone that told LE they saw Hannah with that bald black guy wearing black jeans and a white shirt was lying. Anyone that said they saw her, but she was with a guy that didn't look like that were telling the truth.

The more time that went by before JM knew he was a suspect the more evidence LE could gather for warrants before he fled or lawyered up.

And don't forget, LE was still searching and asking people for tips and to search their property for Hannah. I'm sure they held out hope she was alive, but knew she was most likely dead. It's public knowledge that as every hour passes the chances of being found alive decrease, and Hannah had been missing over 36 hours before LE were even involved.

What I still can't get a grip on is why nobody missed her until Sunday afternoon? She seemed very popular, involved in a lot of groups, etc., etc. She's going from party to party all alone, wandering around in the wee hours of the night texting people that she's lost, and no one even knew she never came home? Very strange...

In Hannah's dorm they has separate bedrooms. Her door was closed I believe. As room mates came and went they eventually realized none of them had seen her and contacted her family. Our family can barely find out my daughter's plans, I don't think she's any more forthcoming with her room mates. Since Hannah's disappearance I have tried to point out to her the importance of letting people know her plans and of keeping in touch. It's a shame she has to learn at Hannah's expense.

---------

As for Hannah's texts, I came back around to wondering if Hannah was meeting JM as strange as it seems. Maybe it was him she texted being lost to, come find me, because he did find her. I wonder if she was seeing JM and hadn't told anyone. It would explain her behavior that night. Not accepting a walk home. Seeming to be walking with a purpose. Seeming to be looking for someone. Leaving with him and getting in his car. It makes sense out of everything that confused us. Mainly, why she would have a drink with a stranger and then get in that stranger's car.

 

[Evie Ivy Over]

It's really the way it often is these days. I've walked many a college area street, and seen many young women walking after dark alone. Sometimes in the very wee hours and inebriated or otherwise affected. Charlotte Spierer, the mother of the missing IU coed, Lauren, sadly noted solitary young women in not so great condition walking the very streets her daughter did the day she disappeared and not a year had even gone by.

I Was not alone, nor ineberiated, walking those streets, and so it was clear that a lot of the young people were. I've spent the last 14 years in college areas. It's not just women who should not be alone like that either. I know a young man who did not make it home when he was drunk. Another who fell, hit his head badly, made his way to a party anyways where everyone was so out it, they didn't notice he was hurt and he lay down on a sofa and died. Yet another who was kidnapped for his car in a parking lot in a shopping center (though he was NOT inebriated, nor was it that late at night a freak event, nonetheless ended up dead).

When will these kids learn that they're not invincible???? Maybe when they stop drinking/drugging; nope, guess it's just not going to happen, is it?

 

[Conductor71]

What I still can't get a grip on is why nobody missed her until Sunday afternoon? She seemed very popular, involved in a lot of groups, etc., etc. She's going from party to party all alone, wandering around in the wee hours of the night texting people that she's lost, and no one even knew she never came home? Very strange...

That is what struck me most about the insider posts on the texting. It was implied that getting texts of a confused nature from HG was not uncommon; this would explain why her friends thought nothing unusual for so long after that last text.

I know this belongs in another thread, but the things that really unify the MH and HG cases are the role of communication with friends. I am struck by how each girl becomes isolated from her friends right before they disappear. Neither had any solid reason to separate for their friends, yet within 45 minutes of doing so, they both disappear. May be entirely coincidental, but I feel they are key to both cases. Also makes me wonder if they were so inconsequential, why the silence or gag order?

 

[ILOKAL]

What I still can't get a grip on is why nobody missed her until Sunday afternoon? She seemed very popular, involved in a lot of groups, etc., etc. She's going from party to party all alone, wandering around in the wee hours of the night texting people that she's lost, and no one even knew she never came home? Very strange...

Maybe Hannah wasn't expected to come home that night. If that's the case then someone knows.

 

[ThinkHard]

I do think it's possible she was intending to meet up with JM specifically. For marijuana. I think he's a drug dealer. Pure speculation, nothing at all to back that up.
But I can't understand where she would know him from...maybe bc JM is a local, a friend of hers from UVa gave her his # as a person to buy from?
Could that be what the high five woman was handing JM?

It occurred to me today that perhaps, IF she did go to him to purchase drugs it wasn't the first time.

Not that i'm saying she "frequented" him....just that, BECAUSE she had encounters, or an encounter with him previously....where she didn't end up dead...and where she hadn't felt uncomfortable...it might explain her willingness to accept his ride.

I picture JM as the type of drug dealer to play a certain type of "role" with the college girls. I think he likes to play the drug dealer that is their "buddy". (if he is indeed involved in those endeavors)

 

[Conductor71]

http://www.readthehook.com/108869/cliffhanger-best-and-worst-2012

Worst story involving a former school resource officer: Former Albemarle cop and reserve deputy Sean M. Horn, 43, is arrested January 5 for rape. He pleads guilty April 9 to one misdemeanor count of assault and battery of an adult family member, and his 12-month sentence is suspended.

Wow! It is only a misdemeanor?! He pleads guilty and his one year sentence is suspended. In Fairfax, sexual assault (rape has not taken place) is a felony punishable by life in prison.

 

[zapped]

I dont see HG being a drug user, not with her grades and academic standing.

 

[Evie Ivy Over]

So HG heads to McGrady's, stops at the corner of the deck to check her phone, then walks past the entrance and down the street where patrons cars are parked. She must have been looking for a particular car...didn't see it, and proceeds to go to the door. The bouncer has the information about who she was looking for; nothing about that stop makes any sense. First they say she was turned away, then they say she told them she was just walking. LE says she's turned around, she's lost, but McGrady's doesn't mention that she asked for help/directions? And if she didn't, why not? Perhaps the person she was planning to meet had a change of venue between the time the arrangements were made and when she got to McGrady's. Maybe she was heading there when she met up with the classmate on the street, went to that party for a bit and that made her late for her meet-up at McGrady's.

 

[Evie Ivy Over]

I dont see HG being a drug user, given her grades and academic standing.

Maybe she was just crossing that line. Didn't one of her Twitter posts reference a roommate using cocaine?

 

[Charlie Chan]

I dont see HG being a drug user, given her grades and academic standing.

I'm quite positive that recreational drug use and high grades/academic standing are NOT mutually exclusive. This combination existed in almost everyone I knew in college.

 

[themom]

I dont see HG being a drug user, not with her grades and academic standing.

She may not have been, but may have been experimenting as a 2nd year. Marijuana isn't that much more than drinking...

 

[jamicat]

How is anyone to know what to think? Everything surrounding those texts are hush-hush. I kind of wonder if there isn't something there that's incriminating towards one of her friends in some way (not that they were directly responsible for her disappearance, but that there was some type of irresponsible behavior involved).

There absolutely is a lot of irresponsibility if not incriminating behavior on part of Hannah's UVA friends and classmates. They were serving alcohol to underaged students with impunity.. They did not notice that one such student, a female, left alone, highly intoxicated. They were all "under the influence" themselves and I wouldn't bet a dime there wasn't more than beer and booze in the picture. They didn't bother to help make some arrangement for one of their own who was out there and lost, texiting and calling, they were likely to busy partying and getting more blitzed. I'm sure the texts would lay it all out. Shame on them. Students at one of the most prestigious schools in the country; theseare the "elite" of that generation, Virginia's finest and see how they care for their own. And yes, Hannah did go off to the parties alone. And though it's common these days, as I've said, it's rally a shame that it's that way. So irresponsible is a euphemism.

Had JM not been caught being with Hannah, had he picked her up elsewhere not caught by cameras, seen by others, maybe some of those UVA students would be hauled into court for civil suits just as those students last with Lauren Spierer have been so served. In Hannah's case, it would probably be a lot easier to pin point who was giving out the booze with such abandon. There might be some UVA students under suspicion as POIs then.