Harvard Professor Arrested--Gates Black in America

[Brwnigirl]

Very few, if any blacks that are living now in this Country have ever been subjected to slavery. I am certain that there are blacks that have had to deal with racism but right now there are whites that are having to deal with reverse discrimination. There are poor white people from the wrong side of the tracks that have been discriminated against and had to survive hardships too. There are some people in this Country that want to make everything a black/whie issue. In my opinion, it's more about rich or poor.JMO

I am aware of when slavery happened and for how long. If you researched this subject, you would see that slavery does not just affect the people it happened directly to. It affected future generations and continues to do so. I believe people of all colors can be racist and that there is definitely discrimination towards white people by other people.

However, count me out of the crowd that says ''Black people should just get over it". Their experiences were not even close to any discrimination whites have faced. It goes deeper than poverty.

 

[lilacwine]

Although I agree with you to a point, because I'm a pragmatic person I also have to say that we can learn from the past but must move forward without marinading in it.

As a "white person" I don't feel compelled to pay for the sins of people before me and only wish to be judged by my own actions. I do, however, agree that there are too many areas where our country does not offer equal opportunities to people from many different backgrounds (racial, cultural, religious, gender, sexual preference) and we need to improve that , in my opinion, by moving forward.

 

[Brwnigirl]

Before the conversation went along the lines of "blacks don't have the same opportunities as whites," (which is where it seemed to me it was headed) I was speaking my mind on the subject. It seemed that Nova was stating, in part, that whites and blacks do not suffer the same injustices when arrested, and a natural extension of that would be someone stating, "well, that's because they haven't had the same advantages of white people."

I realize the connection I was trying to make might be a leap for some, my apologies.

The student loan example was one that I could speak of from experience, which is why I included it, to show that, if education (or lack of) were the issue (or reason some might give for higher crime rates), blacks have the same opportunities as whites, to go into debt funding their college experience.

Thanks for clarifying the student loan example. In my opinion, comparing educational opportunities along with life choices does not start with student loan access. It starts in your neighborhood, your elementary school, your environment, your socio-economic status. Those things that young children do not have a choice in.

 

[lonetraveler]

Gates says this isn't about him at all and he will use it to improve fairness in the criminal justice system. I disagree. It IS about him. If he had behaved himself and had not started using the race card when it had nothing to do with profiling black men, this would never have happened. He is trying to use this for his cause which is a just one, but this does not apply. A neighbor called because someone was seen breaking into his house and LE responded. I can't see that his attitude has changed much.

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You are right, Gates did make it about himself. I have seen Obama's statement on tv Friday and I have read Gates statement. Both statements are still making this a racial profile experience and the policeman is the scapegoat for both of them. Both Obama and Gates are hoping that Gates "experience" will be a teaching tool about racial profiling, therefore, the statements are justifying Gates actions and words and condeming the actions of a police officer trying to do his job. It really bothers me that this officer, with such an honorable reputation is being scracrificed because he is white. Neither Obama nor Gates made anything even approaching an apology for their own actions, especially Gates. His pompass, arrogant racist attitude was only infortified by the President of the United States' comments making this indeed a "racial profile" incident against the Police Officer. I don't see how anyone can see this as a fair and impartial resolution at all.

 

[Nova]

Maybe I said it incorrectly, but Mr.Gates' attitude was what started the whole ridiculous situation,not the color of his skin. I venture to guess that Mr. Gates would act like a pompous ,a** Harvard professor,whether he was white,black,or purple.(and obviously it is not illegal to act that way,but that is what fueled the escalation of events.Mr. Gates chose to make it a racial issue)

hockeymom, my jest about pompous a**es was aimed at myself (I thought), not your post.

But would a white, pompous a** have been arrested under the same circumstances? It's difficult to know for sure.

But would a white person have even acted the same given there isn't the same history of racial profiling, wrongful conviction, perjured testimony, etc., directed at whites? Probably not.

A couple of years ago on a proverbial "dark and stormy night," there was a pounding at my front door. I opened it to find two of our local police officers. A felon (black male) had jumped parole and they were looking for him; mine was the address the felon had given his parole officer.

I said we'd never heard of the guy and said he wasn't one of the men from whom we bought the house (though I couldn't remember their names). I showed them no I.D., nor was I asked for any.

The officers thanked me and left; I never heard about the matter again. Would I have been treated the same were I a black male? I wonder. Would I have been treated the same were I a young black male? Almost certainly not.

I don't think police officers are "bad" people in general. I think the majority are dedicated public servants who do an almost impossible job.

But we who are white should not assume that our interactions with LE are reasonable guides to the experiences of African-Americans.

 

[Nova]

I am a white person. I can honestly say I don't think about race. I can't stand any person, regardless of race, who uses their race as a bargaining chip -- or an excuse.

I agree with Brwnigrl: if what you say is true, then you live in some segregated world where race is never an issue. (Those are my words, not B-girl's.)

The rest of us--whether of European, African, Latino, Asian or Native American ancestry--do think about race. It's ingrained in our culture. That doesn't mean we are bigots who mistreat people of other races, but it does mean we are aware of racial differences. And if we are decent people, we keep watch over our own thoughts, words and deeds to avoid unfair stereotyping.

 

[Nova]

Well, let's try it this way then:
There are more blacks in prison than whites or hispanics. Is that more acceptable to you?

Please don't start in on the "whites have more opportunities than blacks in this country". As far as I know, blacks can get a guaranteed student loan to get an education just as easily as whites. That's how I paid (and am still paying) for my education.

It's all about CHOICES. You decide which CHOICE you will make.

I provided statistics to back up what I said. I didn't see yours.

Yes, per capita there are more blacks than white or Latinos in prison. What that means, however, is very much a matter of debate. That was my point.

Do you really need me to find statistics for you on the state of predominately black, inner-city schools v. predominately white, suburban schools? Where have you been?

I didn't say there was less public funding for black college students relative to white college students. But public funding is only part of the story. And college is only part of the story: to enter and succeed in higher education, one needs adequate preparation in the ELHI grades. Even one generation is only part of the story, since "education" also depends, for most people, on the education level of one's parents.

This is not to say that there aren't many successful college graduates that are black. There are. Just as there are millions of blacks who never commit a crime and are never convicted. But you began the speaking in broad generalities with your stats on black incarceration.

 

[Nova]

Very few, if any blacks that are living now in this Country have ever been subjected to slavery. I am certain that there are blacks that have had to deal with racism but right now there are whites that are having to deal with reverse discrimination. There are poor white people from the wrong side of the tracks that have been discriminated against and had to survive hardships too. There are some people in this Country that want to make everything a black/whie issue. In my opinion, it's more about rich or poor.JMO

I agree with you that most social problems are rooted in class. HOWEVER, there's no way around the fact that in the United States, for various historical reasons, our economic classes tend to have different ethnic faces.

This isn't to say every white person's life is hunky-dory, but that's hardly the point. I spent most of my childhood living below the federal poverty line (and housed, FWIW, in a predominantly black ghetto). But that doesn't mean I haven't also received advantages (most of which I probably wasn't even aware of) because I am white.

The so-called problem of "reverse discrmination" is hugely exaggerated.

 

[daisy7]

I think this is a great column by Leonard Pitts

Looking but not seeing

Please take a good look at Dr. Henry Louis Gates.

He is 5'7'', weighs 150 pounds, wears glasses and uses a cane. His legs are of unequal length, his mustache and goatee are gray. He is 58 years old and looks it.

It's important to see Gates -- scholar, author, documentarian, Harvard University professor and African-American man -- because that's what Sgt. James Crowley of the Cambridge, Mass. police department apparently did not do in the July 16 confrontation that has ignited debate about racial bias in the U.S. ``justice'' system. For the three of you who do not know: the incident began when Gates, returning home from a trip to China, found his front door jammed. When he and his driver tried to force it, a neighbor, thinking it a burglary in progress, did the right thing and called police. Crowley responded, finding the driver gone and Gates inside. There are two versions of what happened next.

(snipped)

http://www.miamiherald.com/285/story/1156989.html

 

[mysterygirl]

---------------
You are right, Gates did make it about himself. I have seen Obama's statement on tv Friday and I have read Gates statement. Both statements are still making this a racial profile experience and the policeman is the scapegoat for both of them. Both Obama and Gates are hoping that Gates "experience" will be a teaching tool about racial profiling, therefore, the statements are justifying Gates actions and words and condeming the actions of a police officer trying to do his job. It really bothers me that this officer, with such an honorable reputation is being scracrificed because he is white. Neither Obama nor Gates made anything even approaching an apology for their own actions, especially Gates. His pompass, arrogant racist attitude was only infortified by the President of the United States' comments making this indeed a "racial profile" incident against the Police Officer. I don't see how anyone can see this as a fair and impartial resolution at all.

You are right. I am so tired of the excuses. blah, blah, blah

Only one person made that fiasco about race from the very start and it was Gates. Crap like this makes genuine racial profiling or discrimination cases be taken less seriously. That professor ought to be ashamed of the way he acted. And so should the President for commenting about something on a national level before he knew the facts. He could not even apologize. No, his apologies are only make when he goes on his world apology tours, saying he is sorry for the very country that elected him President. Hello.

 

[lonetraveler]

You are right. I am so tired of the excuses. blah, blah, blah

Only one person made that fiasco about race from the very start and it was Gates. Crap like this makes genuine racial profiling or discrimination cases be taken less seriously. That professor ought to be ashamed of the way he acted. And so should the President for commenting about something on a national level before he knew the facts. He could not even apologize. No, his apologies are only make when he goes on his world apology tours, saying he is sorry for the very country that elected him President. Hello.

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Yes, and if you will notice, the only thing that Gates was regretful over was distracting attention away from Obama's health plan..............

 

[JBean]

Just to throw this in, it is not always about race there can be other discriminating factors in life.
When my sons were teens they were constantly discriminated against by local LE. Their offense? being teens.
I can say with certainty that if any of my sons spoke to an officer in my area the way that Mr. gates spoke to this officer they would have been arrested on the spot. They would have trumped up any charge they wanted. one of my sons was pulled over and the officer asked if he could search the car. Even though my son knew the officer did not have the right,my son also knew if he said no, they would come up with something to make him miserable for not being agreeable so they always let them search. One time he had a halloween mask in his trunk (in October) and so the cop tried to accuse him of being a burglar! With a Reagan mask no less.

LE discriminates for all kinds of reasons and that's the way it is and sometimes it is for good reason. but how you respond to them is going to majorly affect the outcome of the situation.

 

[Nova]

Just to throw this in, it is not always about race there can be other discriminating factors in life.
When my sons were teens they were constantly discriminated against by local LE. Their offense? being teens.
I can say with certainty that if any of my sons spoke to an officer in my area the way that Mr. gates spoke to this officer they would have been arrested on the spot. They would have trumped up any charge they wanted. one of my sons was pulled over and the officer asked if he could search the car. Even though my son knew the officer did not have the right,my son also knew if he said no, they would come up with something to make him miserable for not being agreeable so they always let them search. One time he had a halloween mask in his trunk (in October) and so the cop tried to accuse him of being a burglar! With a Reagan mask no less.

LE discriminates for all kinds of reasons and that's the way it is and sometimes it is for good reason. but how you respond to them is going to majorly affect the outcome of the situation.

That's all true, J, but it doesn't make it any more constitutional.

And furthermore, I'd say you've precisely articulated the problem. Black adults--particularly males and no matter what they accomplish--are treated as if they were juvenile delinquents. (Just as your non-delinquent sons were treated.) But if African-American men resent such treatment, according to many WS posters (though not you), THEY have a problem.

(BTW, I'm sorry you had to fix the quotes in my post above. I saw the problem and could have fixed it myself, but was too lazy. My bad.)

 

[Nova]

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Yes, and if you will notice, the only thing that Gates was regretful over was distracting attention away from Obama's health plan..............

And that's a bad thing because...?

According to far too many posters here, African-Americans are just selfish whiners who play the "race card" to get special treatment.

Yet here is Professor Gates saying a health plan intended to benefit all Americans is more important than his encounter on his front porch. Whether or not you like the health plan you should be able to appreciate Gates' graciousness in this remark.

 

[Nova]

You are right. I am so tired of the excuses. blah, blah, blah

Only one person made that fiasco about race from the very start and it was Gates....

(Snipped for length and because it really doesn't matter what Obama does or does not do; you will find his conduct appalling. I don't need to help publicize your views on that.)

As for the passage I highlighted, you can't possibly know that.

Nobody at this point claims the officer was wrong to check out a robbery report, but at what point race affected his interaction with Professor Gates can't be known from a distance.

But even if Gates DID wrongly assume race was an issue in the encounter, can't you understand why he might make such a mistake?

African-Americans judge reality based on their prior personal experiences. Just like everybody else.

 

[lonetraveler]

And that's a bad thing because...?

According to far too many posters here, African-Americans are just selfish whiners who play the "race card" to get special treatment.

Yet here is Professor Gates saying a health plan intended to benefit all Americans is more important than his encounter on his front porch. Whether or not you like the health plan you should be able to appreciate Gates' graciousness in this remark.

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He was apologetic to Obama, his supporter. You like to play on words. This has nothing at all to do with the health plan. My comment was to point out that he is not regretful about his behavior and continues to speak as if he were indeed mistreated due to his race. He was the racist in this situation and did pull the race card in front of the whole world to witness. I do not see any graciousness in him not admitting that his behavior was disgusting and wrong. He should be gracious enough to admit it and stop the racial BS.

 

[mysterygirl]

(Snipped for length and because it really doesn't matter what Obama does or does not do; you will find his conduct appalling. I don't need to help publicize your views on that.)

As for the passage I highlighted, you can't possibly know that.

Nobody at this point claims the officer was wrong to check out a robbery report, but at what point race affected his interaction with Professor Gates can't be known from a distance.

But even if Gates DID wrongly assume race was an issue in the encounter, can't you understand why he might make such a mistake?

African-Americans judge reality based on their prior personal experiences. Just like everybody else.

Yes it does matter what Obama does or does not do. Do not speak for me. I do not share a blind zombie love for him. When he does something I do not agree with, I say so. Speaking about an incident and not knowing the facts was wrong..straight up. From all accounts Gates was the first person to mention race. Does Gates deny that? Not that I have heard. I can understand why many people make mistakes and presume something based on prior experiences.....however....when those presumptions are wrong or premature then say so.

 

[Nova]

-------------
He was apologetic to Obama, his supporter. You like to play on words. This has nothing at all to do with the health plan. My comment was to point out that he is not regretful about his behavior and continues to speak as if he were indeed mistreated due to his race. He was the racist in this situation and did pull the race card in front of the whole world to witness. I do not see any graciousness in him not admitting that his behavior was disgusting and wrong. He should be gracious enough to admit it and stop the racial BS.

I don't know that his behavior was wrong; apparently Professor Gates doesn't believe it was.

Perhaps he knows that this is not Nazi-occupied France in 1943. In the United States of America, citizens have a right to speak harshly, even unfairly, to police officers, particularly when those citizens are not doing anything illegal.

But my point was not a play on words. Gates suggested that the President of the United States, though his personal friend, might have more important matters to deal with. That was gracious. More gracious than some WS posters.

(Edited because I may have mischaracterized Gate's work.)

 

[jilly]

-------------
Yes, and if you will notice, the only thing that Gates was regretful over was distracting attention away from Obama's health plan..............

And that was probably due to Obama's mentioning in his press conference that because of this matter in the media nobody's been talking about the health plan. Just his way of sucking up a little, I suppose.:crazy:

 

[Nova]

Yes it does matter what Obama does or does not do. Do not speak for me. I do not share a blind zombie love for him. When he does something I do not agree with, I say so. Speaking about an incident and not knowing the facts was wrong..straight up. From all accounts Gates was the first person to mention race. Does Gates deny that? Not that I have heard. I can understand why many people make mistakes and presume something based on prior experiences.....however....when those presumptions are wrong or premature then say so.

I did not presume to speak for you. I stated my opinion based on your posts; when you prove me wrong, I'll be happy to say so.

As for Gates, I think I understand you now: racism doesn't exist or doesn't matter until the first person mentions it aloud. After all, in your own account and by your own definition, Gates "brought race into it" because he was the first to mention it.

So if African-Americans would only stay silent on the subject, the racism they endure wouldn't count. It's only when blacks play the "race card" (which apparently means any mention of racism) that there is a problem.

Now I assume you will say this isn't what you meant and I will respond that it is the logical conclusion to your insistance that "he who smelt it, dealt it," as the kids would say.

But I suspect you inadvertently articulated the feelings of a lot of posters in this thread. And of a lot of white Americans.