Has Any Ramsey Defender Ever Given an Explanation for the Pineapple?

[robotdog]

Well, let me put it like this, robotdog.

If John was responsible for JB's ongoing molestation, it doesn't GET any more rotten than that. But I think Patsy was a good lady who got in over her head and couldn't find a way out.



That's what Occam said!



Agreed. Some people tell me that the Ramseys were too smart to have done such a lousy job of staging the crime scene. But "smart" doesn't necessarily mean "know what you're doing." Yes, John was a great businessman. Patsy was a great pageant diva. That doesn't make them good criminals.



Maybe they should have gotten their money back from their lawyers. LOL



Yeah, they could have written a "How To" book!



How true, grasshopper.

you might be right, about patsy and "being in over her head"

i just dont know, but for myself i have a hard time figuring out how she could continue with living if she was in a situation where she found out john was mloesting her daughter. i would give my daughter justice before i stuck it out with a pig like that.......

which makes me believe it was something that she was more involved in
than finding out john was molesting her. i think she snapped with the bedwetting incident. it wasnt just the bedwetting but that was the trigger.

after she claimed her initial innocence, she would never reveal the truth because it would make her appear like the worst person going.

better to seen as a liar and a phony and lousy person that a convicted murderer ------
thats the bottom line with her. i think

 

[LinasK]

you might be right, about patsy and "being in over her head"

i just dont know, but for myself i have a hard time figuring out how she could continue with living if she was in a situation where she found out john was mloesting her daughter. i would give my daughter justice before i stuck it out with a pig like that.......

better to seen as a liar and a phony and lousy person that a convicted murderer ------
thats the bottom line with her. i think

But Patsy herself may have been molested by her father, and therefore have the mentality that it's normal/allright, and/or many mothers of molestation victims don't believe them. I know that one from personal experience. My mother chose to believe her own brother couldn't do such a thing, rather than believe me, and I was an adult when I told her. Also, Patsy was all about appearances, and like the Petersons, maybe divorce was an unacceptable appearance.

 

[BBB167893]

ALWAYS good to see you here, LinasK!

i just dont know, but for myself i have a hard time figuring out how she could continue with living if she was in a situation where she found out john was molesting her daughter. i would give my daughter justice before i stuck it out with a pig like that.......

That's easy to say, robotdog. But, even if LinasK is wrong (big IF, IMO!) and Patsy didn't have a lower set point to start with due to her own upbringing, the GREAT majority of people, upon finding out their child has been molested by the spouse, tend to deny it entirely or, sadly, blame the victim. I don't know why! But a lot of books have been written on that phenomenon.

What's more, IF she WAS herself abused, she may have figured that she didn't deserve any better.

after she claimed her initial innocence, she would never reveal the truth because it would make her appear like the worst person going.
better to seen as a liar and a phony and lousy person that a convicted murderer ------
thats the bottom line with her. i think

Maybe. Look, I wouldn't give a nickel for John Ramsey. Far as I'm concerned, he's dog meat. But Patsy was a nice girl who deserved a lot better than that snake. Maybe that's why she did like you said: she knew that she could have saved JB, but instead of thinking about her daughter, she was only thinking of herself. One maddened swing later, and herself was all she had left.

It's almost Shakespearian.

 

[angelwngs]

"Couldn't you fix this for me?...We didn't mean for this to happen." -PR to Pam Griffin-

"I'm sorry. I'm sorry." -JR to friends-

 

[coloradokares]

"Couldn't you fix this for me?...We didn't mean for this to happen." -PR to Pam Griffin-

"I'm sorry. I'm sorry." -JR to friends-

That is one of the major things that sealed the deal for me, not the only deal sealers but ...... how do you go back from that it was a confession in my humble opinion to a friend.

 

[Solace]

That is one of the major things that sealed the deal for me, not the only deal sealers but ...... how do you go back from that it was a confession in my humble opinion to a friend.

Exactly.

But why do you think they stayed in the limelight, going on LKL, writing the book. Why why why?

Why not hope it goes away and keep it low?

 

[Solace]

The turtleneck scenario is very logical.... and you can practically "behead" a kid trying to get those things off if they're tight. You can certain pull hard enough that the kid loses his/her balance... if the floor is slippery...... BAM.


Do you put a little kid to bed wearing a shirt with sequins? Ouch.

LI Mom,

You are right. I remember when my son was five and taking the turtle necks off was a chore. You are absolutely right. Forgot about that. Had to be very careful so I did not hurt him.

 

[Solace]

ALWAYS good to see you here, LinasK!



That's easy to say, robotdog. But, even if LinasK is wrong (big IF, IMO!) and Patsy didn't have a lower set point to start with due to her own upbringing, the GREAT majority of people, upon finding out their child has been molested by the spouse, tend to deny it entirely or, sadly, blame the victim. I don't know why! But a lot of books have been written on that phenomenon.

What's more, IF she WAS herself abused, she may have figured that she didn't deserve any better.



Maybe. Look, I wouldn't give a nickel for John Ramsey. Far as I'm concerned, he's dog meat. But Patsy was a nice girl who deserved a lot better than that snake. Maybe that's why she did like you said: she knew that she could have saved JB, but instead of thinking about her daughter, she was only thinking of herself. One maddened swing later, and herself was all she had left.

It's almost Shakespearian.

SD: You think Patsy walked in on them? PLEASE PLEASE ANSWER THIS.

 

[Ames]

LI Mom,

You are right. I remember when my son was five and taking the turtle necks off was a chore. You are absolutely right. Forgot about that. Had to be very careful so I did not hurt him.

LI Mom, was responding to a post that I had written, about what I thought happened that night. I have posted numerous times about this, that I believe that the turtle neck was what she went to sleep in that night. She wet the bed, getting her shirt wet too. Patsy, already frazzled from the days festivities....IMO...very forcefully tried to yank or jerk that turtleneck off of JB, causing her to be slung into the side of the sink, tub, or toilet. Turtlenecks, as you know...fit pretty doggone tight. They are hard enough to take off a child, if you are doing it calmly....BUT WHAT IF...someone tried to forcefully take one off a child? Jerking and yanking angrily and forcibly..accidently slingling that child into something, as the turtleneck finally gives, and comes off from around the childs neck and head. THIS...imo...is exactly what happened. THIS...IMO....is why Patsy broke down when she saw the picture of the balled up turtleneck on the bathroom counter. She tried to make everybody believe that the turtleneck was taken off by JB, before the White's party. Every piece of clothing that JB ever took off, was thrown ONTO THE FLOOR. So, I don't believe that JB is the one that placed the turtleneck on the counter...that is more like something a mom would do. It was most likely still in her hand, as JB's head came out of it and hit a hard surface. She then, threw it down onto the counter...and then went to tend to JB.

 

[angelwngs]

SD: You think Patsy walked in on them? PLEASE PLEASE ANSWER THIS.

S, Have you read SD's theory in the member's theories thread that is a sticky at the top of this forum? His theory is on the last page, I believe...

 

[angelwngs]

LI Mom, was responding to a post that I had written, about what I thought happened that night. I have posted numerous times about this, that I believe that the turtle neck was what she went to sleep in that night. She wet the bed, getting her shirt wet too. Patsy, already frazzled from the days festivities....IMO...very forcefully tried to yank or jerk that turtleneck off of JB, causing her to be slung into the side of the sink, tub, or toilet. Turtlenecks, as you know...fit pretty doggone tight. They are hard enough to take off a child, if you are doing it calmly....BUT WHAT IF...someone tried to forcefully take one off a child? Jerking and yanking angrily and forcibly..accidently slingling that child into something, as the turtleneck finally gives, and comes off from around the childs neck and head. THIS...imo...is exactly what happened. THIS...IMO....is why Patsy broke down when she saw the picture of the balled up turtleneck on the bathroom counter. She tried to make everybody believe that the turtleneck was taken off by JB, before the White's party. Every piece of clothing that JB ever took off, was thrown ONTO THE FLOOR. So, I don't believe that JB is the one that placed the turtleneck on the counter...that is more like something a mom would do. It was most likely still in her hand, as JB's head came out of it and hit a hard surface. She then, threw it down onto the counter...and then went to tend to JB.

At last a theory I can completely wrap my head around! Thank you, Ames!

The hole in JBR's skull has been described as "triangular" in nature. The corner of a bathroom countertop or a bathroom faucet, (which I have often thought might have caused the injury), could have produced this type of injury to the skull. The turtleneck theory makes total sense. Now, where are those pictures of the White's dinner party??? Why can't we see them?

 

[LI_Mom]

At last a theory I can completely wrap my head around! Thank you, Ames!

The hole in JBR's skull has been described as "triangular" in nature. The corner of a bathroom countertop or a bathroom faucet, (which I have often thought might have caused the injury), could have produced this type of injury to the skull. The turtleneck theory makes total sense. Now, where are those pictures of the White's dinner party??? Why can't we see them?

Just wanted to say.... I can't imagine that JB wore the turtleneck to the party & not one person ever disputed her claim that JB wore the sequin shirt instead.


But we only have Patsy's word about what JB wore to sleep that night.... once John went downstairs to Burke, she was the only one up there with her.

It's also possible... when they got home, JB was awake/woke up... the 2 started arguing again over the turtleneck & Patsy lost it..... shoved it on her & then JB started fighting against her rough handling & Patsy yanked it off her as her anger mounted...

when you're overtired & angry... it's very easy to do irrational things.

BAM!!!!

 

[coloradokares]

LI Mom, was responding to a post that I had written, about what I thought happened that night. I have posted numerous times about this, that I believe that the turtle neck was what she went to sleep in that night. She wet the bed, getting her shirt wet too. Patsy, already frazzled from the days festivities....IMO...very forcefully tried to yank or jerk that turtleneck off of JB, causing her to be slung into the side of the sink, tub, or toilet. Turtlenecks, as you know...fit pretty doggone tight. They are hard enough to take off a child, if you are doing it calmly....BUT WHAT IF...someone tried to forcefully take one off a child? Jerking and yanking angrily and forcibly..accidently slingling that child into something, as the turtleneck finally gives, and comes off from around the childs neck and head. THIS...imo...is exactly what happened. THIS...IMO....is why Patsy broke down when she saw the picture of the balled up turtleneck on the bathroom counter. She tried to make everybody believe that the turtleneck was taken off by JB, before the White's party. Every piece of clothing that JB ever took off, was thrown ONTO THE FLOOR. So, I don't believe that JB is the one that placed the turtleneck on the counter...that is more like something a mom would do. It was most likely still in her hand, as JB's head came out of it and hit a hard surface. She then, threw it down onto the counter...and then went to tend to JB.

Have you ever been in the room with the rage of Bipolar/ Personality Disorder etc? Maybe some rough cleaning was about to begin? We know for fact one the turtleneck was balled up and JonBenet could not have survived that substantial a head injury. I really get ill when I think of that skull fracture.

 

[Ames]

Just wanted to say.... I can't imagine that JB wore the turtleneck to the party & not one person ever disputed her claim that JB wore the sequin shirt instead.


But we only have Patsy's word about what JB wore to sleep that night.... once John went downstairs to Burke, she was the only one up there with her.

It's also possible... when they got home, JB was awake/woke up... the 2 started arguing again over the turtleneck & Patsy lost it..... shoved it on her & then JB started fighting against her rough handling & Patsy yanked it off her as her anger mounted...

when you're overtired & angry... it's very easy to do irrational things.

BAM!!!!

No, I do not believe that she wore that turtleneck to the Whites. Steve Thomas has seen the pictures from the Whites party, and said that she was NOT wearing it. IMO...JB was awake, just as Burke stated...after arriving home. I believe that Patsy changed her into the red turtleneck, to sleep in...probably to make it easier on them the next morning, for the trip. JB could wear the red turtleneck to bed, get up...throw on some pants...and viola...she is ready for the trip. Since it was so early in the morning...Patsy...IMO...wanted to make things easier on herself the next morning, because they didn't have alot of time to get ready.

 

[LI_Mom]

No, I do not believe that she wore that turtleneck to the Whites. Steve Thomas has seen the pictures from the Whites party, and said that she was NOT wearing it. IMO...JB was awake, just as Burke stated...after arriving home. I believe that Patsy changed her into the red turtleneck, to sleep in...probably to make it easier on them the next morning, for the trip. JB could wear the red turtleneck to bed, get up...throw on some pants...and viola...she is ready for the trip. Since it was so early in the morning...Patsy...IMO...wanted to make things easier on herself the next morning, because they didn't have alot of time to get ready.

angelwngs questioned whether JB could have worn the turtleneck to the party, so I responded why I didn't think it was a possibility.

I can't remember all the minutiae of this case like some of you guys.... you're like experts! lol

Oh yeah.... if Patsy was wearing the same clothes the next day... why wouldn't she dress her kid the night before? Makes perfect sense.

 

[UKGuy]

No, I do not believe that she wore that turtleneck to the Whites. Steve Thomas has seen the pictures from the Whites party, and said that she was NOT wearing it. IMO...JB was awake, just as Burke stated...after arriving home. I believe that Patsy changed her into the red turtleneck, to sleep in...probably to make it easier on them the next morning, for the trip. JB could wear the red turtleneck to bed, get up...throw on some pants...and viola...she is ready for the trip. Since it was so early in the morning...Patsy...IMO...wanted to make things easier on herself the next morning, because they didn't have alot of time to get ready.

Ames,
Sure No turtleneck and no size12's! You might be correct about the turtleneck, its removal would be required to match their story about JonBenet being placed sleeping into bed. Then of course Patsy would need to invent a another story for the turtleneck being on the bathroom counter. Which is why I reckon she did not redress JonBenet in the the size-12's, because unlike the turtleneck she lied and lied until she was told no size-12's were found in JonBenet's panty drawer and by extension the whole house.

I'm convinced Patsy is covering up for someone else, if all it was was a rage incident invoked by her, like the turtleneck story she would have some convincing tale to tell, including tears, as per her interview!

 

[Ames]

angelwngs questioned whether JB could have worn the turtleneck to the party, so I responded why I didn't think it was a possibility.

I can't remember all the minutiae of this case like some of you guys.... you're like experts! lol

Oh yeah.... if Patsy was wearing the same clothes the next day... why wouldn't she dress her kid the night before? Makes perfect sense.

I, like angelwings, had also wondered if JB had worn the red turtleneck, under the white Gap shirt, to the White's party. But, after reading what Steve Thomas said, I realized that she didn't.

I have done that myself. If we were leaving really early in the morning for a trip, I have let both of my girls sleep in what they would be wearing on the trip...well, at least the shirt, and then a pair of PJ bottoms or something, just to save time.

Just give yourself a little more time on this board, you will be an "expert" too. You are on your way already....

 

[Ames]

Ames,
Sure No turtleneck and no size12's! You might be correct about the turtleneck, its removal would be required to match their story about JonBenet being placed sleeping into bed. Then of course Patsy would need to invent a another story for the turtleneck being on the bathroom counter. Which is why I reckon she did not redress JonBenet in the the size-12's, because unlike the turtleneck she lied and lied until she was told no size-12's were found in JonBenet's panty drawer and by extension the whole house.

I'm convinced Patsy is covering up for someone else, if all it was was a rage incident invoked by her, like the turtleneck story she would have some convincing tale to tell, including tears, as per her interview!

She tried to say that JB had the turtleneck on, to wear to the Whites...because Patsy wanted them to look like "twins" for some unknown twisted reason. JB decided...according to lying Patsy...that she didn't want to wear it afterall, so she fought with her mom about it. JB took off the turtleneck and left it on the counter. I don't know about you, but, I don't know of ANY 6 year olds that could take off a turtleneck without any help. On second thought...I don't know HOW in this world pathetic Patsy put on those tight longjohns, without waking JB up. Its a MIRACLE! I am starting to believe that JB was ALSO wearing a different pair of pants, other than those tight longjohns. I believe she must have been redressed COMPLETELY to eliminate any sort of evidence.

 

[LI_Mom]

I, like angelwings, had also wondered if JB had worn the red turtleneck, under the white Gap shirt, to the White's party. But, after reading what Steve Thomas said, I realized that she didn't.

I have done that myself. If we were leaving really early in the morning for a trip, I have let both of my girls sleep in what they would be wearing on the trip...well, at least the shirt, and then a pair of PJ bottoms or something, just to save time.

Just give yourself a little more time on this board, you will be an "expert" too. You are on your way already....

Wasn't it the turtleneck that Patsy claimed had the stain in it? The shirt she was fussing with that morning right before she levitated over the RN? lol

Hey! Why would the shirt have a stain IF JB refused to wear it to the party anyway? Surely, she wasn't going to wear dirty clothes to the Whites?

Thanks. I might be on my way..... not sure WHERE though? ha

 

[LI_Mom]

She tried to say that JB had the turtleneck on, to wear to the Whites...because Patsy wanted them to look like "twins" for some unknown twisted reason. JB decided...according to lying Patsy...that she didn't want to wear it afterall, so she fought with her mom about it. JB took off the turtleneck and left it on the counter. I don't know about you, but, I don't know of ANY 6 year olds that could take off a turtleneck without any help. On second thought...I don't know HOW in this world pathetic Patsy put on those tight longjohns, without waking JB up. Its a MIRACLE!

In all fairness, I never saw anything unusual about Patsy wanting to match JB. That seems like a pretty standard Christmas time tradition... families dress alike for pictures.


When my son was around JB's age, he'd freak out if we were both wearing the same color tops. Either he'd change or I'd have to change or nobody was going to be happy that day. Kids! And so I know it might have hurt Patsy's feeling to hear JB ruin her plans.... kids don't always say things in nice ways.