Henry Lee's comment on the Touch DNA

[Funny Face]

...Lee's creditabily has been completely compromised since the Phil Spector/Lana Clarkson Trial. Losing evidence, not following chain of custody, forensic note taking on stickies, education seriously suspect and on and on. His opinion goes to the highest bidder, just like Weitch (sp?) and Bodden.

Rant over. :furious: Thanks. Carry on.

Happy Trails,
Funny Face

Please fellow posters, keep in mind my spelling/editing errors are mine all mine. Proof reading impaired.

 

[BBB167893]

By your definition, SD, 'staging' HAS to be premeditated.

MY definition?

They had to decide at some point to conduct some staging.

Okay, I get you. (I think.) I have an idea as to how that went down. I just thought you meant that the killing was premeditated. Okay, then you meant the the idea of staging was premeditated, just not necessarily what kind. I can live with that.

They had to decide what type of staging.

Right.

They had to then 'fly by the seat of their pants' and decide what further staging beyond what they had initially decided to stage.

You're hitting it out of the park today.

Does this make any sense to you?

Actually, yes, it does. In fact, I'm somewhat grateful to you for putting it so plainly.

 

[BBB167893]

but could the note have been trying to account for that? because IMO,one reason for it's length is that it's filled with one excuse after another.in this instance..'if we monitor you getting the money early'...seems to account for JR being seen outside the house early.
as far as a proper burial,could they have been worried JB wasn't going to get one,and so that showed in the note?
It's not that they necessarily would have carried through w that plan...I think the RN was written soon after the murder,in a moment of panic and terror,and getting her out of the house was a panic-driven thought.once they had a chance to think about it more,they decided to leave her in the remote WC.
I also wonder if they were going to have help getting her out,(one reason being JR trying to account for his prints on the walk-in fridge),but for some reason,that plan fell through.perhaps that's why the Stine's weren't called over that morning? They certainly seem to know more than they let on.

As the FBI pointed out, the note was used to explain (excuse?) a lot of things.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

MY definition?



Okay, I get you. (I think.) I have an idea as to how that went down. I just thought you meant that the killing was premeditated. Okay, then you meant the the idea of staging was premeditated, just not necessarily what kind. I can live with that.



Right.



You're hitting it out of the park today.



Actually, yes, it does. In fact, I'm somewhat grateful to you for putting it so plainly.

By my definition, crime scene staging is taking an actual crime scene, adding to or subtracting from it, to cause the actual crime scene to be interpreted as something other that what it actually was.

In the case of RDI, the actual crime scene was murder for coverup of chronic abuse (is this right?), that was staged to appear as a ransom kidnapping, a sexual assault, and a brutal murder by multiple intruders with foreign ties and a political agenda.

That leaves the question, SD, as to which elements of the crime scene were the actual original crime scene elements, and which elements were later added or subtracted:

Chronic abuse: original element
Head bash: original or added?
Sexual assault: added
Garrote: original or added?
Ransom note: added
Recently purchased cord roll, remnants, or wrappers: subtracted
Tape: added
Wrist ligature: added

 

[Roy23]

By my definition, crime scene staging is taking an actual crime scene, adding to or subtracting from it, to cause the actual crime scene to be interpreted as something other that what it actually was.

In the case of RDI, the actual crime scene was murder for coverup of chronic abuse (is this right?), that was staged to appear as a ransom kidnapping, a sexual assault, and a brutal murder by multiple intruders with foreign ties and a political agenda.

That leaves the question, SD, as to which elements of the crime scene were the actual original crime scene elements, and which elements were later added or subtracted:

Chronic abuse: original element
Head bash: original or added?
Sexual assault: added
Garrote: original or added?
Ransom note: added
Recently purchased cord roll, remnants, or wrappers: subtracted
Tape: added
Wrist ligature: added

You are right SD, he is hitting it out of the park today. Nice post.

 

[Roy23]

...Lee's creditabily has been completely compromised since the Phil Spector/Lana Clarkson Trial. Losing evidence, not following chain of custody, forensic note taking on stickies, education seriously suspect and on and on. His opinion goes to the highest bidder, just like Weitch (sp?) and Bodden.

Rant over. :furious: Thanks. Carry on.

Happy Trails,
Funny Face

Please fellow posters, keep in mind my spelling/editing errors are mine all mine. Proof reading impaired.

Yep. Not just highest bidder though. You can also get paid through writing books and stuff like that. That is not a shot to you SD but to others who have already sold their soul to make a buck.

 

[BBB167893]

By my definition, crime scene staging is taking an actual crime scene, adding to or subtracting from it, to cause the actual crime scene to be interpreted as something other that what it actually was.

Right. Last I knew, that was my feeling as well.

In the case of RDI, the actual crime scene was murder for coverup of chronic abuse (is this right?), that was staged to appear as a ransom kidnapping, a sexual assault, and a brutal murder by multiple intruders with foreign ties and a political agenda.

Ah, not everyone agrees as to what it was covering up (I happen to think chronic abuse was the kicker that ultimately led to the staging). So if you're asking me (and RDIs are not of a single collective mind, despite rumors to the contrary), I'll go with that.

That leaves the question, SD, as to which elements of the crime scene were the actual original crime scene elements, and which elements were later added or subtracted:

Chronic abuse: original element
Head bash: original or added?
Sexual assault: added
Garrote: original or added?
Ransom note: added
Recently purchased cord roll, remnants, or wrappers: subtracted
Tape: added
Wrist ligature: added

It's one thing for me to say what I think happened. I'm sure some other RDIs will have their own feelings on it. But for me now:

Chronic abuse: original
Head bash: original
Sexual assault: added
Garrote: added
Ransom letter: added
Cord roll, remnants or wrappers (very possibly recently purchased): subtracted
Tape: added
Wrist ligature: added.

In a nutshell.

The preceding post reflects the views of SuperDave and does not necessarily reflect the views of anyone else.

 

[BBB167893]

You are right SD, he is hitting it out of the park today. Nice post.

Well, Roy, you and I probably don't agree as to HOW he hit it out of the park, but nonetheless I thought he summed up my general feelings quite well. In a nutshell, as it were.

Whether or not he or you agree with it, that's up to you.

 

[BBB167893]

Yep. Not just highest bidder though. You can also get paid through writing books and stuff like that. That is not a shot to you SD but to others who have already sold their soul to make a buck.

Well, Roy, I appreciate that. If I wanted money I'd write about the political situation this year. It would be a lot easier (easier on my conscience as well).

But let me say this: I understand how it works. Many words can be used to describe me. I think we can all agree that "stupid" isn't one of them. I know full well that when something like this case comes along, there will be those (journalists, "experts," what-have-you) who see an opportunity to swoop in like buzzards and gorge themselves on the carcass, metaphorically speaking. I can name a few (on both sides, just to be fair).

But the problem I have is the one which Holdon (and others who I will not mention) seems to suggest (I say seems because I don't know his mind): that everyone who said "the Ramseys did it" or "they need to be looked at" was just some vulture seeking to advance their own agendas. A while back, at Holdon's behest, I supplied a list of experts on my side. It was quite lengthy, if memory serves. Sure, one or two of them might have been liars-for-hire, to use a popular phrase, but you can't tell me ALL of them were.

You can't tell me they were all dupes, either.

 

[Roy23]

Well, Roy, I appreciate that. If I wanted money I'd write about the political situation this year. It would be a lot easier (easier on my conscience as well).

But let me say this: I understand how it works. Many words can be used to describe me. I think we can all agree that "stupid" isn't one of them. I know full well that when something like this case comes along, there will be those (journalists, "experts," what-have-you) who see an opportunity to swoop in like buzzards and gorge themselves on the carcass, metaphorically speaking. I can name a few (on both sides, just to be fair).

But the problem I have is the one which Holdon (and others who I will not mention) seems to suggest (I say seems because I don't know his mind): that everyone who said "the Ramseys did it" or "they need to be looked at" was just some vulture seeking to advance their own agendas. A while back, at Holdon's behest, I supplied a list of experts on my side. It was quite lengthy, if memory serves. Sure, one or two of them might have been liars-for-hire, to use a popular phrase, but you can't tell me ALL of them were.

You can't tell me they were all dupes, either.

You are right Dave. I honestly know you believe a Ramsey is guilty and I don't think you are stupid. I think you are wrong but not a stupid person. I do think we have many stupid that post on this site, but you are not one of them. I do think you place some of those experts you mentioned in too high a regard. But, obviously, I can't prove that yet just as you can't to me. Maybe we will one day see justice and one of us can say, " I told you so."

 

[DeeDee249]

You are right Dave. I honestly know you believe a Ramsey is guilty and I don't think you are stupid. I think you are wrong but not a stupid person. I do think we have many stupid that post on this site, but you are not one of them. I do think you place some of those experts you mentioned in too high a regard. But, obviously, I can't prove that yet just as you can't to me. Maybe we will one day see justice and one of us can say, " I told you so."

And to that end I have to say that there are many RDIs who will be THRILLED for it to have been proved to be someone other than the parents. There is no satisfaction for us to be right. I, for one, wish the evidence led anywhere BUT the parents, but I don't see that. JR himself said to Linda Arndt right after he "found" his daughter that it was an "inside job". This was to set up that bus they planned to throw people under. Of course, when nothing they threw stuck to anyone, then they started screaming "intruder".
I am one RDI who will just be happy to see justice for JBR and the case closed, and I will be the first one to be happy to say "I was wrong".

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

It's one thing for me to say what I think happened. I'm sure some other RDIs will have their own feelings on it. But for me now:

Chronic abuse: original
Head bash: original
Sexual assault: added
Garrote: added
Ransom letter: added
Cord roll, remnants or wrappers (very possibly recently purchased): subtracted
Tape: added
Wrist ligature: added.

In a nutshell.

The preceding post reflects the views of SuperDave and does not necessarily reflect the views of anyone else.

OK, thanks for your attention. It seems you believe that JBR was murdered by headbash to prevent her from talking about chronic abuse. What then was the scenario that involved the headbash, less the staging? Was it spontaneous?

 

[JMO8778]

Why is the flashlight never mentioned? Any opinions on that?? ..though it appears to match the head wound,as well as it was wiped down,(inside and out),was denied by the R's to be theirs..it is consistently left out...........Why...........?????

 

[Roy23]

And to that end I have to say that there are many RDIs who will be THRILLED for it to have been proved to be someone other than the parents. There is no satisfaction for us to be right. I, for one, wish the evidence led anywhere BUT the parents, but I don't see that. JR himself said to Linda Arndt right after he "found" his daughter that it was an "inside job". This was to set up that bus they planned to throw people under. Of course, when nothing they threw stuck to anyone, then they started screaming "intruder".
I am one RDI who will just be happy to see justice for JBR and the case closed, and I will be the first one to be happy to say "I was wrong".

DeeDee,

Even though I don't think I am wrong, I would be happy to be wrong as well if justice were to be served. That is what I hope for--justice. And I would come here and praise whomever got their facts straight. I would hope as well that many others, including the media and book writers, would apologize profusely to the Ramsey's if they are without a doubt cleared

 

[BBB167893]

You are right Dave. I honestly know you believe a Ramsey is guilty and I don't think you are stupid. I think you are wrong but not a stupid person. I do think we have many stupid that post on this site, but you are not one of them.

I appreciate the kind words. And if I am wrong, at least I was wrong honestly.

I do think you place some of those experts you mentioned in too high a regard.

Maybe so. But putting too much faith in them is one thing; ignoring them altogether is another.

But, obviously, I can't prove that yet just as you can't to me. Maybe we will one day see justice and one of us can say, " I told you so."

I'm more interested in justice than gloating.

I'm reminded of something Shakespeare wrote in Henry V: for if these men do not die well, it will be a black matter for the king who led them to it.

 

[BBB167893]

And to that end I have to say that there are many RDIs who will be THRILLED for it to have been proved to be someone other than the parents.

Me being one of them.

There is no satisfaction for us to be right. I, for one, wish the evidence led anywhere BUT the parents, but I don't see that. JR himself said to Linda Arndt right after he "found" his daughter that it was an "inside job". This was to set up that bus they planned to throw people under. Of course, when nothing they threw stuck to anyone, then they started screaming "intruder".
I am one RDI who will just be happy to see justice for JBR and the case closed, and I will be the first one to be happy to say "I was wrong".

I guess that will make me the 2nd one.

 

[BBB167893]

OK, thanks for your attention.

No problem at all.

It seems you believe that JBR was murdered by headbash to prevent her from talking about chronic abuse.

Ah, essentially. It's a bit more nuanced than that, but it could be interpreted that way, yes.

What then was the scenario that involved the headbash, less the staging? Was it spontaneous?

Well, I'll answer the second question first: yes, I believe it was.

As for the scenario that involved the headbash, my belief (insert disclaimer here) is that JB and PR wound up alone in JB's bathroom, possibly to clean JB up, JB let the "secret" slip, and PR, tired and irritable from the day's events, went berserk, wanting to punish JB for saying such "filthy lies." Perhaps JB resisted out of fear and in the chaos, caught an errant blow. Or she may have been thrown into something.

This post reflects my opinon only.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

As for the scenario that involved the headbash, my belief (insert disclaimer here) is that JB and PR wound up alone in JB's bathroom, possibly to clean JB up, JB let the "secret" slip, and PR, tired and irritable from the day's events, went berserk, wanting to punish JB for saying such "filthy lies." Perhaps JB resisted out of fear and in the chaos, caught an errant blow. Or she may have been thrown into something.

This post reflects my opinon only.

Errant blow? Thrown into something? You mean she wasn't murdered, but instead was accidentally killed?

 

[BBB167893]

Errant blow? Thrown into something? You mean she wasn't murdered, but instead was accidentally killed?

Again, that is essentially correct, yes.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Again, that is essentially correct, yes.

Hmm...

Your RDI says that JR was abusing JBR. She started to talk, so PR lost it and accidentally killed her. Then, to cover up chronic abuse, PR and JR staged a kidnap for ransom turned sexual assault and strangulation murder. Is this right?