GUILTY HI - Carly Joann 'Charli' Scott, 27, pregnant, Makawao, 9 Feb 2014 - #2

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  • #881
About "maceration" and "demestes beatles"
I think it's possible because SC was into plants and gardening (source his social media) Also he worked at Mana health food store and people there are into growing food and composting. Composting is just common on Maui anyhow so people know techniques and think about it
 
  • #882
At that time SC was not yet named as a suspect, so it could have been him and his grandfather's home being referred to.
He could explain away having parts of Charli's SUV at his home though because his story is she picked him up there to drive him to Keanae.

Or the grill and parts could have been at someone else's home in Haiku and they could say Charli left them there.

Someone probably took the grill off because it was unique and made her SUV easy to identify.
Yes, for instance so the SUV would not catch someone's eye on the road if the SUV needed to be driven after the search began (Monday). I read somewhere that it made her lights recognizable at night (some comment on social media). The reason I thought maybe it was the burglarized house is that we know the police went to it to investigate something (other than the burglary) during that time frame, and that was how they came to get info tying SC to the burglary. We also know those people had ties to Steven, and lived in Haiku. But there are lots of homes in Haiku so maybe no connection to the burglary.

I actually don't see what Steven could say to make it sound not suspicious if he had her grill and parts of the SUV. She did come by to get him per his story, but to leave vehicle parts behind? I may be missing something here. :)
 
  • #883
About "maceration" and "demestes beatles"
I think it's possible because SC was into plants and gardening (source his social media) Also he worked at Mana health food store and people there are into growing food and composting. Composting is just common on Maui anyhow so people know techniques and think about it
That makes so much sense, when you connect it to composting. Yes, people here are definitely into composting, especially organic gardeners. The Mana Foods tie-in works. Thanks.

From the first time I heard a bone was recovered only four days after she was last seen, I thought it was strange. The jungle is fast but not that fast.
I suppose the reason I want to know is, I want to know if there was some chance they got in an argument and he lost it, and got all enraged -- as opposed to coldheartedly planning and executing.

I sure wish the pieces would fall into place in my brain in a nice coherent picture.
 
  • #884
  • #885
  • #886
I sure wish the pieces would fall into place in my brain in a nice coherent picture.


It's monsterous extremely so it's probably good to not be able to understand it it easy
 
  • #887
Do you think she means his lawyer? (He's on his 2nd one. ) Or maybe the girlfriend or an accomplice?
not a lawyer. It's their job to keep confidence, nothing to curse. I don't think most defense lawyers ask for the truth, and defendants who are guilty don't usually say so.

It sounds like she has someone in mind. I don't want to speculate. I imagine she left it vague on purpose. But it's an intriguing thought that someone else could give the family closure but won't.

He could have had an accomplice. Not easy for one guy to pull it all off.
 
  • #888
Yes, for instance so the SUV would not catch someone's eye on the road if the SUV needed to be driven after the search began (Monday). I read somewhere that it made her lights recognizable at night (some comment on social media). The reason I thought maybe it was the burglarized house is that we know the police went to it to investigate something (other than the burglary) during that time frame, and that was how they came to get info tying SC to the burglary. We also know those people had ties to Steven, and lived in Haiku. But there are lots of homes in Haiku so maybe no connection to the burglary.

I actually don't see what Steven could say to make it sound not suspicious if he had her grill and parts of the SUV. She did come by to get him per his story, but to leave vehicle parts behind? I may be missing something here. :)

Welcome, Puakenikeni!

When you are the last person known to have seen someone who is missing, suspicion is naturally on you. SC had some 'splainin' to do, and did a poor job of it, enhancing the suspicion from day one.

One of her family members explained why they went to Mana foods to talk to SC, and that quote said it all, IMHO. I will try to find it in the media thread.

Regarding the grille - her SUV was distinctive-looking because of the grille and also because of the front-end damage. People who knew her would have recognized her vehicle immediately. I'm not sure how much attention it would have generated on Hana Hwy in the dark, but if someone wanted to cover his tracks, he would have removed the grille before driving it or used his own vehicle to do his dirty work.
 
  • #889
There is more closure than most get in cases that start out missing persons. There is confirmation she is deceased. Family have all evidence they personally seem to need to be sure who did it and motive. Having the remains may not be even possible if he put her in ocean or dismembered disposed extremely. Justice..... there is none when you have to go through this and still she is gone. Justice..... a conviction to fullest extent of the law is whats wanted now. The best is the work her family is doing to change laws for better.
So now what can get conviction?
 
  • #890
Conviction? Well, none of us know what the police have in terms of forensics. We hope it is good.
What do they really need barring a confession or an eyewitness? A body.
Per the quoted former Honolulu chief prosecutor, it's extraordinarily hard to prove the case without a body.
He said they need to prove the 4 big questions -- What, Where, How, Why. (Beyond reasonable doubt.)

In a recent case on the Big Island, Dawn Gambsky's husband was convicted seven years after she disappeared, 6 1/2 years after her skeletal remains were recovered buried in her own yard. The police did not get a warrant to dig up the yard until after the new girlfriend told them the husband had told her he buried his wife there (after she supposedly committed suicide). He was not charged for five years after that, and would not have been charged if not for a new Prosecutor coming into office who was willing to try.

Even though her remains showed death by physical trauma, they probably had no DNA after 7 months in the ground. But they did have a witness who would testify that husband said he buried her.

And they still plea bargained it to ensure that he would not be able to appeal his conviction.
It's not a slam dunk. I hope they have something really good tying him to the evidence. On the positive side, the police here generally don't charge a case unless they believe they can get a conviction, especially with homicide.
 
  • #891
I read over and over again in media and on here that remains are found at the killers home.
 
  • #892
I read over and over again in media and on here that remains are found at the killers home.
Yep. And it's easy to see why that would be. I was reading the thread on Moreira "Mo" Gonsalves, who disappeared on Maui the month prior to Charli, another very sad and frustrating case with an ex as prime suspect, which some or all of you will have followed. In the MPD press conference (near end of topic), I noted they said they were NOT able to search the ex-BF's property, that he has tenant's rights. That they didn't have enough probable cause, even though he saw her last, and her purse and shoes were found in a dumpster, he refused a polygraph, he didn't help search for her, and he left the state.
I read that they searched Steven's home (grandfather's), but I wonder, I don't think they dug up the property, never heard anything about that kind of search.

heartgoesout, I think your sig is right on, and very much so in this case.
 
  • #893
I don't remember reading they searched the grandfathers home. What timeframe was this?
 
  • #894
They searched Stephen's residence in late February, which is when they found the items linked to the burglary that led to his burglary charge. I thought he resided at his grandfather's home. Did I get that wrong? I have not seen an article which said specifically the police searched grandfather's property. I would guess that if Steven has his own separate residence there, that they may have confined themselves to that, unless they had probable cause for a wide scope. I don't have any real knowledge of SC's living arrangement and would appreciate it if someone could explain it.
 
  • #895
I've been thinking through some hypotheticals regarding whether the murder took place near Keanae/Honomanu or "close to home" in Haiku. Please feel free to say if I am missing known facts of any thing to correct or why you would disagree.

I've been trying to look at SC's behavior through a different lens than when I first heard his interview and read media articles, trying to weed out assumptions. (thank you, heartgoesout).

One thing I have not been able to find for sure is whether or not Charli told Brooke Scott that Steven had asked for help with his truck. I've seen many statements that he was the last to see her, and stating from the family that he had asked her to drive him out there, but I have wondered if the only source that he ever asked for this odd favor is Steven himself. What I see in Steven's behavior is a lot of effort put into getting this story stuck in people's heads, beginning the day after she disappeared.

Kapua posted a fantastic interview with Kimberley Scott in the media thread, a couple days ago, which was published in July, but somehow I never saw it. Thank you Kapua!
http://www.mauinews.com/page/content.detail/id/587646/Scott-s-mother-wants-life-term.html?nav=5161
This snip from the interview seems to contradict itself as to whether the family members had direct knowledge from Charli of Steven's call and request for help. Please tell me what you think.
This part gives us his call for help as a fact.
Family members said she received a call that night from him, asking if she would drive him to Keanae so he could fix his truck, which had broken down there.

Followed by a line that indicates Charli did NOT say she was going to drive Steven somewhere, in fact hid her intent to connect with Stephen.
Carly Scott had been with her three sisters at one of their residences in Haiku when she received the call and left, but told her sisters she was heading home.
"We all went to bed blissfully ignorant that night," Kimberlyn Scott said.

One might think the contradiction could be reconciled if she did tell them about his request, but then told them she was not going to help him, that she was instead going home (tired, working in morning, etc.). But then surely they would have thought of Steven immediately when they could not get hold of her the next day, if they had any hint that he had made this proposition to her. But no, it was a whole other process that led them to Steven. Having tried all the obvious places and people, they then focused on what she would hide from them.

Kimberlyn Scott's youngest daughter, Phaedra Wais, was closest to Carly Scott and accompanied her mother to their missing loved one's house. After not finding her or her sport utility vehicle, they called police and asked each other "who else would she be with that she wouldn't tell us."

"We both said his name at the same time: Steven," Kimberlyn Scott said. "We didn't like him particularly so Charli learned to keep that part of her world quiet."
It also seems to me that from what this article says about the family's opinion of Steven, that they would have tried to talk her out of going if she had told them he wanted her to drive him out Hana Highway at night. Three sisters present when he called, but I've never seen one statement saying they discussed the situation with her before she left. I would love to ask them this, but wouldn't want to bother them.

We know from the family that one sister went to Mana Foods after they came up with his name. Then he told them he had asked for help and they had driven out there, and the story we have heard.
Later on Monday, we hear they called him and he "rushed out" to show them where the truck was supposedly broken down or stuck.
On Tuesday they learn that Nalu landed in Nahiku, and at some point before the Thursday search, family learns about the last phone ping near Honomanu Bay.
The Forerunner was torched some time between Sunday night and including Tuesday night, because it would be too risky to dump and burn by day, and it was found around 6 PM Wednesday. No story describes it as still hot or smoldering either.
On Wednesday, Steven agrees to take a polygraph, which he doubtless realizes was a fail.

On Thursday, Steven agrees to give an extended phone interview. It's not the expected tale of a highly distressed friend or lover or parent to be. It's denigrating of Charli and minimizes their whole history. This interview by Kimberley Scott explains that he always treated Charli dismissively and avoided being linked to her. She says they lived together in a house for three years, and in his interview, he calls that "about a minute." So it is possible that Steven was so used to denigrating the relationship that he didn't catch how bad he sounded, but still, the guy doesn't want to go to prison. His motive for the murder is to keep his life "options" open. Very risky and ill advised to give a long interview if he has not mustered up the ability to act devastated and worried.

What the interview does do, is it plants the story of the trip out the Hana Highway firmly in people's heads, in public perception. That is what doing the interview gives Steven. Steven only does things Steven wants to do, so this is important to him. Everything he has said and done since she disappeared has pointed people out the Hana Highway.

Therefore all I can think is he may not be a genius, but there's no percentage to send them where he disposed of her body, no matter how well he thinks he did. Ergo, she never went out there with him at all. Whatever seemed to confirm she was there was planted as misdirection. Misdirection is done so that a particular place that might be under a lot of scrutiny otherwise is not the focus.

Two things pointed to the Hana Highway prior to the clothes, tape roll, gloves, blanket being found. The phone ping near Honomanu and Nala at Nahiku. The phone ping was too late for it to fit in the story timeline, something like 11 PM IIRC. If you don't want a phone to give away location, you can power it off. He left it on; in fact the phone was still on while they were searching, just never pinged again. The phone ping was the reason they found the clothes and all that evidence, and I think he wanted that to happen.

With Nala, I don't think he ever intended to point towards Nahiku. I'm thinking his original plan was to leave her at this fake spot that would keep everyone searching, but then he realized she would most likely end up back on the highway and likely to get hit. He cared about the dog, so he took her to a nearby commercial area where she would smell people and hang out and be found. However, his concern for Nala hurt his coverup, because people immediately pegged Steven as the only likely person who Nala would have tolerated. Plus a stranger killer would not care about the dog's welfare, would certainly not give it a ride to a safe haven after killing a woman. Steven blew that one.

With the SUV, Steven was careful to say in his interview that abandoned cars end up on Peahi Road, stripped and torched. I think he wanted people to believe maybe she stopped for someone and was carjacked by a killer, maybe a serial killer. And that vandals ended up with her vehicle and did what they always do on Maui. Of course, it was also a site close to his home and comfortable turf for him.

Back to whether or not he really asked her to go help with his truck -- what if he just called her and asked her to come over that night before she went home? He could have said he wanted to talk baby names or baby anything, or just sweet-talked her, as she was susceptible to him. To me it makes more sense that she only planned to go to his nearby house, and had no thought of driving out the Hana Highway at night, didn't wonder why he couldn't get a buddy to help him, and so forth. She would not be thinking it was anything too unusual. She was in Haiku and he lived in Haiku, so it was close. She wouldn't be concerned about wearing herself out, pregnant and already tired, working the next day. She wouldn't have a reason to wonder what he was up to and be on her guard. Much easier than some plan to overpower her in the SUV or to lead her down some dirt road in the dark. Besides which, as she did not follow him back, there would have only been one vehicle, the SUV, so how does he get her to pull over when she does not see his truck by the side of the road? It doesn't seem like a situation he could well very control, the way he could control the scene in his own prepared ambush on his own turf.

There is enough information in the article about the motion to dismiss, to let us know the police presented what they considered evidence that he was driving his truck and was caught on traffic cam during the time frame when it was supposedly stuck. That tells us the police theory is going to be the truck was never out there. But do they think he killed her out there or dumped her out there? I think that is what he wants. He knows they need a body for the best case against him. I think his plan must have revolved around how to keep them from ever finding her, start with a wild goose chase.

Then take the clothes out there, and her jawbone, and gloves and duct tape rolls and everything suggestive of the body getting wrapped up and taped. Leaves the clothes in a pile close to a road, and scatters the rest of the evidence just a little to make it look like pieces fell out of a bundle in the dark. Near a beach of sorts, access to the ocean, everyone will be thinking that's where she is. I can picture him totally enjoying the idea they will never stop searching that area.
The area all this stuff was found was in a remote area of Maui, but it was not remote from the road that went in. It wasn't hidden. There's jungle and gulches and pali (cliffs) out there, impossible terrain, but he just happens to leave her telltale clothes in a single pile on the ground? I just don't buy it. It totally feels like he was planting Easter eggs for the searchers.
 
  • #896
Thanks for your well thought out analysis of this case, Pua. I have forgotten so many details over the months. I agree with you that Charli was probably killed at/near SC's home/land. I remember her mom or sister saying she wouldn't have gone to Keanae because, for one thing, she was very low on gas and no station near her would have been open on Sunday night. The only one who said she went was SC, and I'm with you in that he was busy "planting Easter eggs".
Thanks again for rekindling this discussion.
 
  • #897
That makes so much sense, when you connect it to composting. Yes, people here are definitely into composting, especially organic gardeners. The Mana Foods tie-in works. Thanks.

From the first time I heard a bone was recovered only four days after she was last seen, I thought it was strange. The jungle is fast but not that fast.
I suppose the reason I want to know is, I want to know if there was some chance they got in an argument and he lost it, and got all enraged -- as opposed to coldheartedly planning and executing.

I sure wish the pieces would fall into place in my brain in a nice coherent picture.

One of the reasons I lean towards premeditation is that his new girlfriend was due back on Maui sometime later in that short month of February and allegedly she had told him she didn't want to be a stepmom. Then again, the repeated stabbing of the womb and breast say "rage" to me.
Do you have any opinion as to whether Matthew McCormick might have been involved at least indirectly as in possibly having knowledge after the fact? The timing of his "disappearance" and SC's arrest don't read "coincidental" to my suspicious mind.
 
  • #898
ETA: didn't Matthew Mc work for a composting company? My memory of the case is rusty and I'm too lazy (actually busy) today to review the threads to find out.
 
  • #899
With Nala, I don't think he ever intended to point towards Nahiku. I'm thinking his original plan was to leave her at this fake spot that would keep everyone searching, but then he realized she would most likely end up back on the highway and likely to get hit. He cared about the dog, so he took her to a nearby commercial area where she would smell people and hang out and be found. However, his concern for Nala hurt his coverup, because people immediately pegged Steven as the only likely person who Nala would have tolerated. Plus a stranger killer would not care about the dog's welfare, would certainly not give it a ride to a safe haven after killing a woman. Steven blew that one.


I don’t think SC cared about Nala. He really is twisted. Think about possibility SC is to dogs like he is to people. Uses them. Wants them around but would hurt them with out remorse normal people hve. Knows other people love dogs so imitates those people to gain favor.


It’s not that a stranger killer wouldn’t care about Nala and SC did. He didn’t. Nala could been hit by a car in Nahiku or taken for hunting or dog fighting. I think Nala is alive because SC is lazy. Hiding another body is more work and more if dismembering to hide.
Also possible SC was trying to frame somebody.


If a stranger did crime of opportunity killed Charli in Honomanu they would probably shoot Nala first. If they had knife no gun they have to stab Nala first. Not so good opportunity then. Not so likely a stranger. Why stab so much in abdomen? Why burn her SUV to Peahi?. Not likely a stranger crime of opportunity.


SC might not shoot Nala because they can anlyze bullets. And if SC wanted the clothes found and killing to look like stabbing then shooting Nala is different weapon doesn’t match.


If SC killed Charli at his house his story is after Charli helped him she drove to her house with Nala. So he couldn’t have Nala at his house.


Maybe SC was trying to frame somebody in Nahiku or Keanae? To make it look like Charli went to Nahiku to meet someone she used to hook up with and left Nala at their house and they went to the beach and they were jealous when they found out she was pregnant. I don’t like to think that direction but for court trial will have to rule it out of reasonable doubt by tying murder to SC. Thye have his motive. If skirt is allowed as evidence they have evidence it is crime of passion. If they have Charli DNA on SC belt knife that could do it but he probably cleaned it. What else?
 
  • #900
And I think Nala in Nahiku keeps Nala far away from where ever Charli body was.
 
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