GUILTY HI - Carly Joann 'Charli' Scott, 27, pregnant, Makawao, 9 Feb 2014 - #3

[RunDaSurf]

yep he was onto the next one. Trying to get what he wanted. He could still just treated Charli bad likes always and not been a father not paid support on time. I think the motivation from CK changed what he thought he needed to do and drove him to action. Only rage was that someone was keeping him from getting what he wanted.
MOO

 

[Mamamerced]

Dont mistake ruthlessness for rage. Its not Stevens style. I think it makes it easier for you all to understand if you can attach a rage label. An "I hated my Mother stigma". I think he was doing a job. Gutting someone. Calm cool collected. Get the job done. No satisfaction from the act. It was a means to an end. Sure it was a crime of passion. Passion for Cass..not Charli.

I feel I should defer to you on this because I believe you knew both Charli and SC.
I do believe it was a coldly and ruthlessly calculated mission up to the point when she was shot/killed (assuming she was shot first). But, then I believe something very dark bubbled up from deep within his psyche and completed the final acts. Why else repeatedly stab (gut) the womb and fetus and breasts of a dead mother? The baby wouldn't have lived anyway.

I thought I read SC was a hunter? Is that true? If he were hunting a wild pig he most likely would have stalked, hunted and killed it in a similar cold, calculating fashion. Once the pig was killed his mission would have been complete, but I doubt he would then stab it 50 times as a means to an end. (Not the same mentality as an evisceration)
Respectfully, I do think rage/hatred played a part in the 2nd act.

 

[PeterTosh]

I feel I should defer to you on this because I believe you knew both Charli and SC.
I do believe it was a coldly and ruthlessly calculated mission up to the point when she was shot/killed (assuming she was shot first). But, then I believe something very dark bubbled up from deep within his psyche and completed the final acts. Why else repeatedly stab (gut) the womb and fetus and breasts of a dead mother? The baby wouldn't have lived anyway.

I thought I read SC was a hunter? Is that true? If he were hunting a wild pig he most likely would have stalked, hunted and killed it in a similar cold, calculating fashion. Once the pig was killed his mission would have been complete, but I doubt he would then stab it 50 times as a means to an end. (Not the same mentality as an evisceration)
Respectfully, I do think rage/hatred played a part in the 2nd act.

Im glad you brought up the pig comparative. Thats our culture here. I am not sure where this 50 times comes up. Operator? The FBI profiles two types of killers. Explosive and implosive. From my talks with SC...from his demeanor outside of that seeing him at work or around I can tell you he is definitely low key. Not introverted...just plays it cool.

You say Joshua wouldn't have lived anyways...How do you know an ignorant 24 year old living in the jungle male could be so sure of that. It seems a lot of folks here are trying to see this case through their own experience and logic. Trying to relate as if it was you. It might take rage for you to be so mindless. You forget your rationale. Your restraint and self control. Your logic. He was void of all that. He saw rain. Wet. Bugs. Beer. Dirt. Dogs. Dope. Trucks. Girls. Party's. And very limited opportunity. C was the best thing in his mind that ever happened and was not about to let his indiscretion wit Charli screw that up.

 

[puakenikeni]

Nature or Nurture? Perhaps for SC, both?
BTW, psychopath and sociopath are different disorders. Similar, but different.
I am not going to pretend to understand his childhood, his experiences or the genetic make up of his brain, what lobe didn't form right, what chemicals he's missing or which antisocial personality disorder he may have.
Not all people with antisocial personality disorders are violent. It's a disorder. We walk amongst people struggling with disorders everyday. Psychologically speaking, in SC's case, most likely he is a walking combination of the antisocial personality disorders. Nature AND nurture.

I think if you take a look at current reading, you will find the sociopathy and psychopathy are two terms for the same disorder and the usage reflects a person's bias on the genesis of the disorder plus time and place of study.

In other words, people may use the words to describe different people, but diagnosticians consider them to be the same thing.

Antisocial personality disorder has a large overlap with psychopathy, but has distinctions. It is diagnosed by behavioral criteria. Psychopathy is diagnosed by certain personality factors, specifically lack of empathy. One can behave completely antisocially while not having complete lack of empathy.

My question about Steven to those who know him, is whether they know him to have displayed true empathic qualities that were not mimicry.

 

[Mamamerced]

N

Im glad you brought up the pig comparative. Thats our culture here. I am not sure where this 50 times comes up. Operator? The FBI profiles two types of killers. Explosive and implosive. From my talks with SC...from his demeanor outside of that seeing him at work or around I can tell you he is definitely low key. Not introverted...just plays it cool.

You say Joshua wouldn't have lived anyways...How do you know an ignorant 24 year old living in the jungle male could be so sure of that. It seems a lot of folks here are trying to see this case through their own experience and logic. Trying to relate as if it was you. It might take rage for you to be so mindless. You forget your rationale. Your restraint and self control. Your logic. He was void of all that. He saw rain. Wet. Bugs. Beer. Dirt. Dogs. Dope. Trucks. Girls. Party's. And very limited opportunity. C was the best thing in his mind that ever happened and was not about to let his indiscretion wit Charli screw that up.

Well, I will defer to you. You know him, I don't and I'm certainly not a trained psychologist. Yes, I was viewing his actions through my own lens of experience and education, and I'm not likely to kill, nor are those in my immediate circle of friends and family. I hope I didn't offend you by my attempt to interpret SC's actions. It's just all so twisted and sordid and so difficult to fathom how a man Charli nurtured and loved could so mercilessly slaughter her and their child in the manner it seems he did.

 

[puakenikeni]

I am not sure where this 50 times comes up. Operator? The FBI profiles two types of killers. Explosive and implosive. From my talks with SC...from his demeanor outside of that seeing him at work or around I can tell you he is definitely low key. Not introverted...just plays it cool.

You say Joshua wouldn't have lived anyways...How do you know an ignorant 24 year old living in the jungle male could be so sure of that. It seems a lot of folks here are trying to see this case through their own experience and logic. Trying to relate as if it was you. It might take rage for you to be so mindless. You forget your rationale. Your restraint and self control. Your logic. He was void of all that. He saw rain. Wet. Bugs. Beer. Dirt. Dogs. Dope. Trucks. Girls. Party's. And very limited opportunity. C was the best thing in his mind that ever happened and was not about to let his indiscretion wit Charli screw that up.

I much appreciate the insight into SC's head and lifestyle.

The 50 times was a rough calculation and might be high, but the number of stab wounds counted is minimum 20 concentrated in one place under her waistband on one side, and 10-15 through her bra. She was wearing a sort of low neckline blouse that was open on her upper chest and sleeveless, so between her arms, upper chest, armpits, neck, head, and below the bra, there could easily have been 50, not even counting possible leg or other wounds if her skirt was raised in the process.

But let's stick to the 30-35 that were specifically identified by the examiner, and that's still far more than was necessary to kill, which is why he has the enhanced circumstances charge sticking.
Here:
http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...i+pregnant+scott+stabbed&hl=en&gbv=2&&ct=clnk

The repeated stabbing to her breasts had nothing to do with making sure the baby didn't live, and if her head was gone, then it didn't serve any practical function. I don't think it's a stretch to say he was attacking her breasts, as these are bra cup stab wounds and that's what the cups cover (and some were underarm but still in the bra as that's how they know the stabs happened).

 

[puakenikeni]

I am not trying to see SC through my own moral or emotional lens, which doesn't work with what he did. I don't think psychological drives are easy answers. They might be if you do pop psychology, but true psychoanalytic theories are complicated and nuanced.

I'm not a psychologist, but I worked with some top San Francisco psychoanalysts during graduate school, as my Ph.D. dissertation was focused in that area. So I studied it intensely for maybe seven years in an interdisciplinary context, and with some top academic minds as well as working psychiatrists. I certainly didn't learn more than a fraction of what there is to know, but I have some background.

People with as many big issues with the mother-child relationship as what SC had (based on what KS has talked about) don't have simple motivations that are free of issues. Their actions may appeared focused and singleminded, but that doesn't mean the underlying psychology is in any way normal and simple.

Normal psychology does not allow a person to butcher or even kill another human being and a baby in order to smooth out his dating life. In normal psychology, there would be a great many other ways to try to get straight with Charli that he wanted no involvement. From what KS says, Charli had no intention of relying on SC for anything. But he was not normally wired and not able to fully understand and believe that.

It is likely that he has/had an intense fear of abandonment that was underlying his confidence, as after all he was abandoned by his mother. It may be that C's statement that she did not want to be a stepmother triggered some overwhelming irrational fear of abandonment that necessitated in his mind such over-reaction to his situation. I don't think these people are so motivated by obtaining "good" things for themselves as their selfish acts would suggest. More likely there are hidden fears of terrible losses that they seek to avert.

"Rage" and normal anger are not the same thing. Rage can be an ever-present suppressed factor that is a permanent frustration beneath the surface, that boils out at certain times. The narcissistic personality disorder person is unable to have normal healthy anger and release.

When I see SC's posts, I see a lot of generalized suspicion and frustration at "big" entities like Monsanto and such. While I don't at all think it is a symptom to dislike a big chemical company, that could be a fixation where he targets big things in the world as objects of his frustration that is ever-present. And it's all cool, because cool people agree with him, but in his case he really needs some big bag entity to act as a focus for some of that anger he holds.

 

[Loio]

You know, I gotta tell you guys as someone who has read SC's private/friends posting, don't think for one second that you are getting a complete picture by reading his public posts. Many of his shares are just that, things he may have found comical at the time, shares that have been making the rounds for years now.

After Febrary 9, SC started trolling his FB because he knew everyone would be curious. In other words, those that didn't know him personally, were getting played. Still are?

 

[Mamamerced]

Yes, it's apparent SC plays people. I saw that on the FindCharli FB site when he was tauting Kimberlyn about missing stereo parts.

 

[heartgoesout]

Just a few of the 1000's of "current" articles on Antisocial Personality Disorders. I picked some random ones that were easy reads. Whether SC would be diagnosed with any or all is a question I would not be able to answer sitting behind my lap top.

http://psychologia.co/psychopath-vs-sociopath/

http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2015/02/12/differences-between-a-psychopath-vs-sociopath/

http://psychologia.co/psychopath-vs-sociopath/

 

[Mamamerced]

I"This set of heinous circumstances alone is more than enough to establish sufficient probable cause that Charli Scott experienced not only extreme physical suffering but also extreme 'mental suffering' as her unborn child was being stabbed repeatedly," Rivera's memorandum said. "The jury could have easily inferred that if defendant wanted to cause the death of Charli Scott it was completely unnecessary to initiate a vicious attack on her womb."

http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...i+pregnant+scott+stabbed&hl=en&gbv=2&&ct=clnk


From the statement above, which is in the article Pua cited in her last post, it sounds like we, or I, may have the sequence of the alleged shooting and stabbing reversed. If the quote can be trusted, the stabbings occured while Charli was still alive. Perhaps I just made the assumption that, if as PT believes, SC shot Charli in the face, that the stabbings occurred after Charli was shot/died. I didn't think it was possible to feel more sickened.
Also, the stabs were the size of a pencil eraser to 2 inches long (not deep). What would make a cut the size of a pencil eraser?
This is one diabolically twisted psyche to my mind.

 

[heartgoesout]

A tire gauge? A thin painter's brush end? Truck circuit pencil tester?

 

[heartgoesout]

http://www.stanleytools.com/default...74;+Extra+Light+Blade/Cabinet+Tip+Screwdriver

How about a Stanley, extra light blade screwdriver?

 

[Loio]

If you put the tip of a blade in and twist a little, you get eraser sized (diameter) holes. Like goring an apple. Since we don't have her remains yet, I think the two inches refers to the length of the cut.

 

[Mamamerced]

If you put the tip of a blade in and twist a little, you get eraser sized (diameter) holes. Like goring an apple. Since we don't have her remains yet, I think the two inches refers to the length of the cut.

Thanks for pointing out the 2" refers to length, not depth. The article clearly states so....my bad.

 

[Loio]

And again, the cuts were reported to be concentrated on one side of her belly. Sounds like she was attacked in her car or from behind with the defendant's arm around her shoulders, pinning her arms down and stabbing on one side of her body. No cuts were reported to be in the lower skirt, she's 5'7, maybe his arms only reached her belly and breasts.

 

[Mamamerced]

Ii

And again, the cuts were reported to be concentrated on one side of her belly. Sounds like she was attacked in her car or from behind with the defendant's arm around her shoulders, pinning her arms down and stabbing on one side of her body. No cuts were reported to be in the lower skirt, she's 5'7, maybe his arms only reached her belly and breasts.

Do you then discount the belief of some that she was shot in the face? Sounds to me she was very much alive when he stabbed her.

 

[PeterTosh]

And again, the cuts were reported to be concentrated on one side of her belly. Sounds like she was attacked in her car or from behind with the defendant's arm around her shoulders, pinning her arms down and stabbing on one side of her body. No cuts were reported to be in the lower skirt, she's 5'7, maybe his arms only reached her belly and breasts.

His arms are long but frail wit little or no shoulders. With that hair he kinda looks like a burnt matchstick.

 

[heartgoesout]

snipped from above linked article "20 holes on one side of the skirt below the waistband. Some of the holes were similar to the size of pencil erasers and many were up to 2 inches long. The holes were consistent with being made by a blade.

ok trying to visualize this. So her clothing, had holes both the size of a pencil eraser and holes/slashes 2 inches long. Why small round holes in the skirt?

 

[heartgoesout]

The matchstick is really really funny. Great comic relief.