I am so Angry

[Cypros]

Ah! But the residents of New Orleans were already on board (the Titanic). They trusted that it was unsinkable as their government (the shipbuilders/wealthy owners) claimed.

 

[Nova]

Yes, you did but you put it in the context of being a passenger on the Titanic. A better scenario would be that the people on the Titanic were told the ship would sink but they still chose to risk it because they wanted to say they were on its maiden voyage.

In fact, there were doubters about the ship's structural integrity. And everyone knew the WTC had been attacked before.

And though you don't want to "bother" to comment, there is plenty of cause to be skeptical of what our government tells us (and I'm not just talking about the War in Iraq and, no, I'm not a conspiracy theorist as a rule).

But we agree that everyone who could have evacuated, should have.

My point wasn't that the Titanic and NO in the face of a Cat 5 are analogous, just that we all make decisions - some wise under the circumstances, some not so much - that help to determine our fortune.

And I'll repeat: it requires little to show compassion for the completely helpless. Our challenge is to find compassion for those who suffer for their mistakes. (If you need an authoritative source for this argument, I believe Jesus had a little something to say on the subject.)

 

[nanandjim]

...Our challenge is to find compassion for those who suffer for their mistakes. (If you need an authoritative source for this argument, I believe Jesus had a little something to say on the subject.)

I had to chuckle at this comment. Oh, how I wish that I were as perfect as Jesus. I must admit, though, you do make a good point!

 

[Ntegrity]

Ah! But the residents of New Orleans were already on board (the Titanic). They trusted that it was unsinkable as their government (the shipbuilders/wealthy owners) claimed.

Who claimed that? I've known -- as I thought everyone knew -- that a city below sea level, surrounded by water, was living on borrowed time.

 

[TexMex]

Who claimed that? I've known -- as I thought everyone knew -- that a city below sea level, surrounded by water, was living on borrowed time.

People are strange....San Francisco was rebuilt after the 1906 quake. Galveston lost over 6,000 souls in a 1900 hurricane yet still stands today.

NO has been there since 1718 and has survived previous hurricanes.
People here choose to ride out hurricanes here, too. I have done so in the past.
But if a cat 4 or 5 is headed this way---I'm outta here!

 

[Ntegrity]

And though you don't want to "bother" to comment, there is plenty of cause to be skeptical of what our government tells us (and I'm not just talking about the War in Iraq and, no, I'm not a conspiracy theorist as a rule).

Well, I'll continue to believe the National Weather Service and evacuate when they recommend it. Since they're the ones who recommend evacuation, I'm wondering if they're "the government" you're talking about.

But we agree that everyone who could have evacuated, should have.

Yep.

My point wasn't that the Titanic and NO in the face of a Cat 5 are analogous, just that we all make decisions - some wise under the circumstances, some not so much - that help to determine our fortune.

Our fortune or our fate.

And I'll repeat: it requires little to show compassion for the completely helpless. Our challenge is to find compassion for those who suffer for their mistakes. (If you need an authoritative source for this argument, I believe Jesus had a little something to say on the subject.)

There's also something He said about reaping what we sow. When we ignore warnings issued for our own safety, we may have to suffer the consequences of that choice. My compassion is for those who had no choice in the matter and had to pay with their lives.

 

[Ntegrity]

But if a cat 4 or 5 is headed this way---I'm outta here!

I'm with you. As a life-long Florida resident, I've been through many hurricanes, but I know that a Cat 4 or 5 is going to devastate everything in its path. I'm outta here too.

 

[DEPUTYDAWG]

But if a cat 4 or 5 is headed this way---I'm outta here!

I'm experienced in earthquakes and wildfires, but hurricanes/tornadoes, nope. So, lemme know when it's time to get the heck outta Dodge, okay?! I will NOT be one to stay behind!

 

[lorann]

:truce: I have no idea how the tone got this way - I think we are all angry because there is so much devastation and we can't control it.

So far everyone has agreed that everyone should have evacuated, and there are reasons why some didn't - some couldn't, some didn't believe they had to, some just not educated enough to follow orders.

We have agreed the difference between actual looters and those getting supplies for survival.

We have agreed there are good cops and bad cops.

We have agreed there should have been plans way before this, for many generations and throughout many administrations.

We will all be paying for this for many years to come - despite who did or did not do what.

I know there are more things we all agree on. I just want all of these people taken somewhere safe and the sooner the better.

 

[Ntegrity]

:truce: I have no idea how the tone got this way - I think we are all angry because there is so much devastation and we can't control it.

We're disagreeing but I think we're being civil about it ... aren't we? :waitasec:

 

[SieSie]

:truce: I have no idea how the tone got this way - I think we are all angry because there is so much devastation and we can't control it.

So far everyone has agreed that everyone should have evacuated, and there are reasons why some didn't - some couldn't, some didn't believe they had to, some just not educated enough to follow orders.

We have agreed the difference between actual looters and those getting supplies for survival.

We have agreed there are good cops and bad cops.

We have agreed there should have been plans way before this, for many generations and throughout many administrations.

We will all be paying for this for many years to come - despite who did or did not do what.

I know there are more things we all agree on. I just want all of these people taken somewhere safe and the sooner the better.

:clap: :clap: :clap: Thank you, very well said!!!

I found this, about the evacuation:

New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin declared a state of emergency, and ordered a mandatory evacuation of the city. Some of those who remained behind were too poor to escape via normal public or private transportation. The poorest residents had no way out of town. Photos have shown fleets of school buses still parked in their flooded lots. Why those buses were not pressed into service, no one knows. The City of New Orleans Comprehensive Emergency Management Plan clearly states, “The City of New Orleans will utilize all available resources to quickly and safely evacuate threatened areas,” and “Transportation will be provided to those persons requiring public transportation from the area.” Part II, Section B, paragraph 5 of the Louisiana Emergency Operations Plan (supplement 1A) states, “School and municipal buses, government-owned vehicles, and vehicles provided by volunteer agencies may be used to provide transportation for individuals who lack transportation and require assistance in evacuating.”

Public buses only took people to the Superdome, which was clearly not outside the threatened area. The school buses were never used at all. Emergency plans are created for a reason, and need to be followed in order to ensure the safety of the citizens.

Source: ChronWatch.com

 

[PrayersForMaura]

People can continue to displace blame here and there but the fact is that this is a natural disaster. Someone will always want to blame the government, Bush and the people themselves.

I don't think sitting behind your computer blaming someone is really helping anyone else survive, or the dead either.

I guess all those who died in the Tsunami died due to their nation's government's fault, too?

Add up all the people who die in this natural disaster and then take together all the people who are murdered all year long in this nation by people they know and love and trust and let's find a way to blame government for everyone in the nation's death.

Maybe it will make everyone then feel better about their personal situations
or their political affiliations.
But it sure isn't helping the situation.

Take someone into your home who is homeless .... if you have the room, why not? Aren't we all to blame that there are homeless people? Couldn't we all do more?
Why is it just the "President's" responsibility?

 

[Mabel]

People can cotninue to displace blame here and there but the fact is that this is a natural disaster. Someone will always want to blame the government, Bush and the people themselves.

Yes, it was a natural disaster. But it wasn't unexpected. For years our tax money has been spent on government departments that were supposed to prepare for this sort of thing and be ready to step in immediately when assistance was needed. They failed. We have every right to gripe about it.

I don't think sitting behind your computer blaming someone is really helping anyone else survive, or the dead either.

So, unless our time on the computer is spent helping others survive, we shouldn't post? I will immediately cancel my registration at the game sites. How many people did you save while typing out your post?

I guess all those who died in the Tsunami died due to their nation's government's fault, too.

Don't know. That's not the issue before us at this time.

Add up all the people who die in this natural disaster and then take together all the people who are murdered all year long in this nation by people they know and love and trust and let's find a way to blame government for everyone in the nation's death.

So we can't discuss this current situation unless we resolve all other situations first?

Maybe it will make everyone then feel better about their personal situations.
But it sure isn't helping the situation.

Perhaps it is. We've seen where our government is lacking. We can now demand answers and solutions before something like this happens again.

Take someone into your home who is homeless .... if you have the room, why not? Aren't we all to blame that there are homeless people? Couldn't we all do more?
Why is it just the "President's" responsibility?

No one is blaming "just the President". People are attempting to learn where the system failed. There is no justifiable reason that tens of thousands of people in America are without food and water 5 days after a disaster strikes. We should be irate. We should be questioning our government. What we should not do is place blind faith in anyone at this point. We can't fix the problem if we bury our heads in the sand and pretend it doesn't exist.

 

[PrayersForMaura]

There were people with money that couldnt get out. Airports closed, no rental cars available etc. Some people hired taxi's and limo services at thousands of dollars to get them out. The guests at the hotels are there because they couldnt get out.

These people couldnt get out yet we expect the poorest of the poor and the elderly with little or no money and no transportation to have gotten out?

you can sell something in your house to get out, or ya, take a cab, expensive as it is, to a shelter .... it was an emergency evacuation.... looks like from the photo below, many people took it seriously....

Aug. 28: Interstate-10 westbound out of New Orleans is jammed with traffic as residents evacuate ahead of Hurricane Katrina.

http://www.foxnews.com/photo_essay/photoessay_564_images/katrina_hwy.jpg

 

[kgeaux]

Do you think maybe the governor of Louisiana is a little busy right now? Maybe her primary job isn't making TV appearances to entertain you?

She's probably playing a little CYA right now, actually. She is a great lady, before the storm you could see her concern, she looked like she did not sleep for days before that storm hit. I do not know why she delayed ordering the troops in, but it's been in the news that they were mobilized and ready to go, supplies (food and water) had been gathered and stored before the storm hit, and she delayed giving the orders for search and rescue to enter and delayed giving the ok for the supplies to be brought in. The million dollar question is why, and I don't know the answer. I don't know if anyone knows the answer.

 

[Maral]

No one is blaming "just the President". People are attempting to learn where the system failed. There is no justifiable reason that tens of thousands of people in America are without food and water 5 days after a disaster strikes. We should be irate. We should be questioning our government. What we should not do is place blind faith in anyone at this point. We can't fix the problem if we bury our heads in the sand and pretend it doesn't exist.

Excellent post, Mabel.

 

[Olivia77]

People can continue to displace blame here and there but the fact is that this is a natural disaster. Someone will always want to blame the government, Bush and the people themselves.

***That's what we do in America, we hold people responsible for their actions. No one is blaming anyone for the hurricane, it's the response that we're discussing. ***

I don't think sitting behind your computer blaming someone is really helping anyone else survive, or the dead either.

***Actually, finding out what breakdowns in the system contributed to the slow response can and will help people survive, because there will be other disasters. But you are right, it can't bring back the dead. Just lessen their numbers next time.***

I guess all those who died in the Tsunami died due to their nation's government's fault, too?

*** No one is saying that someone in the government went out and conjured up this hurricane...***

Add up all the people who die in this natural disaster and then take together all the people who are murdered all year long in this nation by people they know and love and trust and let's find a way to blame government for everyone in the nation's death.

Maybe it will make everyone then feel better about their personal situations
or their political affiliations.
But it sure isn't helping the situation.

***I don't see how it isn't helping the situation. From reading threads like this, I've learned that personally, I need to be better prepared for a natural disaster. I've learned from Ntegrity that there are things I can do in my community to make sure there are places for my pets, and other pets to go should we need to evacuate. I think it's helping because now my family will be better prepared.***

Take someone into your home who is homeless .... if you have the room, why not? Aren't we all to blame that there are homeless people? Couldn't we all do more?
Why is it just the "President's" responsibility?

***I would venture to guess that everyone on this thread, who IMO has been discussing this in a civil manner, has donated in the past, and in this instance to charities who need it. Yes, we can all do more, that's a good point and something to always keep in mind.***

My replies are starred.

 

[PrayersForMaura]

No one is blaming "just the President". People are attempting to learn where the system failed. There is no justifiable reason that tens of thousands of people in America are without food and water 5 days after a disaster strikes. We should be irate. We should be questioning our government. What we should not do is place blind faith in anyone at this point. We can't fix the problem if we bury our heads in the sand and pretend it doesn't exist.

they ARE attempting to fix it and not everyone there is without food and water.
And yes, people ARE blaming just Bush. Maybe you aren't but people out there ARE. I don't think my post was addressing you personally, was it??

The problem is obvious. I don't think anyone can ignore it, it's on the TV every time we turn it on. It's sad. With all the media camera there covering it, surely they brought people some food?

Instead of griping, what would everyone in here have suggested as the first step plan?? I'm just curious?

 

[Mabel]

you can sell something in your house to get out, or ya, take a cab, expensive as it is, to a shelter .... it was an emergency evacuation.... looks like from the photo below, many people took it seriously....

Aug. 28: Interstate-10 westbound out of New Orleans is jammed with traffic as residents evacuate ahead of Hurricane Katrina.

http://www.foxnews.com/photo_essay/photoessay_564_images/katrina_hwy.jpg

Oh yeah, people who live on $8,000 or less per year have all kinds of valuables to sell. They can sell them to their neighbors, who probably live on even less. Take an expensive cab - they're all over the place during an evacuation. Better yet, evacuate in style. Hire a limo.

What, the people have no bread? Let them eat cake.

 

[Details]

I can see some people being unable to evacuate - but not 20% of the city.

I can see not wanting to go to the city sponsored evacuation centers because they won't take pets (I can't say I'd go without my cats) - but I think then people do have to accept their own responsibility for that choice - I'd know I was risking my life for my cats. I wouldn't do it if I had kids - it really is a choice to risk your life for your pets, and I couldn't do that to anyone else.

I am sure that most of the gangs that stayed behind did so to loot the place, and I've got no sympathy for them.

Yes, for everyone who had a choice about evacuating (and I count evacuating to the Superdome - that was the safest place, and has been a safe, if uncomfortable and disgusting place - and free buses and lots of publicity were provided about the availability of that option (I heard about it before the hurricane, so this isn't just some spin the officials are putting on a lackluster attempt) - there's no excuse not to take it), I think they should recognize they have some responsibility for their current predicament. Doesn't mean we should react any differently to them in their need now; but it's a lesson for everyone when they decide they won't evacuate when they could.



As to not letting the Red Cross in - I think they've got a point there. People are still wanting to stay in the city - while expecting to be fed, cared for, and rescued when they get in trouble. They shouldn't starve people or anything, but setting up a tent city, food for anyone who walks up would just mean that a lot of people would remain in the city instead of accepting evacuation. It's a hard thing to accept that your home city, everything you have is gone, that you can't even try to recover for at least 1-2 months; but that's how it has to be.

Attempting to make New Orleans even remotely habitable again is an enourmous task - it'll be far too hard if they also have to deal with people calling for rescue or food or water or medical assistance while they're trying to fix everything.

Yeah, it's cold and callous, and it's the solution that will in the long term have the best results for everyone. I always remember that classic House line - I've been cursed with the ability to do the math.