"I don't think my daughter's... my granddaughter's birth is plotting this murder"

[OneLostGrl]

I agree that CA knew that something bad had happened to Caylee and I believe she knew even before she picked KC up. My only problem with this is trying to figure out why CA waited until she and George retrieved the car.
Its funny, but after mulling over this for a year and reading regularly, my gut instinct about this has not changed. CA's temper and controlling ways dictated what happened and she is well aware of that, thus her back peddling. I've never been comfortable with her version of events, her demeanor starting with the 911 calls and the adjustments to her personality
we witnessed via live tv interviews (they were clearly were medicine related). On the flipside of the coin, we have KC in jail behaving like she's been sent away to an all girls school to get an education and when she graduates she'll have a major coming out party. This combination just defies
reason, IMO. This just baffles me, and when I want to let it go, the little statement by KC that she was given a script, sends me right back to the beginning. Sure it was given to her by the supposed nanny, that mean old witch who was great with children, who we know doesn't really exist or who could be various people or could be CA.

So, in the last year I haven't advanced on letting the A's off the hook, and I think the statement that started this thread alludes to the fact that CA knows so much more than we imagine.

I am so totally with you on this!

 

[MidAtlanticNative]

Cindy's entire interview with the FBI flabbergasted me!! It seemed like she kept switching between wanting to prove there was a ZFG and (in case they didn't believe that) that Casey was using the ZFG character to try to give clues as to who "really" took Caylee. It seemed like the only thing Cindy was sure of was that Casey didn't do anything wrong.

But the most upsetting portion was the questionnaire that must be a standard for the FBI to use in their interviews. Cindy was supposed to give them answers about what she knew about Casey ~ how she thought, acted, reacted to situations and a general history. I noticed that throughout this entire portion Cindy seemed to talk more about herself than Casey. I found myself saying, "He's talking about Casey, Cindy, not you." It's like she loses sense of who this is really all about ~ I ended up in a horrible mood for the rest of the day! Obviously, MOO.

(bold mine)

I know! Weird, huh? It's as if Cindy's identity alternately converges with, then diverges from Casey's. Maybe some of that comes with being a living-under-the-same-roof parent/grandparent; I don't know...

I've always thought (and mentioned in another JG-related thread somewhere) that Cindy was jealous/envious of Casey in some respects and those feelings fueled a portion of the Cindy/Casey conflict.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Just finished reading this thread. Thanks to all who contributed. Very insightful. I found the article on female serial killers interesting (but scary). KC has or is developing some of the characteristics pointed out in the article. For the purpose of profiling, LE should delve into any past incidents and those surrounding the pet cemetery as there's something weird about that imo. The article also pointed out that in the case of female serial killers they hardly ever confess to their crimes.

A bit premature for me to say the above (no conviction yet), but there seems to be similar traits budding in KC as pointed out in the research. She is still a young person. What I mean is, the behavior could develop /become worse.

 

[MissJames]

lol, good idea.

To put a different spin on your great post:

But that would have been actual work, possibly including a paycheck and stuff... But more importantly, it would have taken a lot more skill, intelligence, and talent than she could ever hope to achieve. IMO, KC has most likely never had an original thought in her head. What may seem clever to us was most likely copied from somewhere else.

Can you imagine the poor editor?trying to reconstruct sentences ,considering KC's odd way of talking.All the A's do it ,which is how the title of this thread came to be.

 

[Curious Me]

I don't know if I can express this clearly.

Yes, I've noticed how Cindy identifies so much with her daughter who she says is so much like her, but she's fooling herself. Someone with strong Narcissist tendencies will make you feel like a special part of their team thus getting you to comply with their agenda. (join me and we're special) If Cindy really looked at Casey separate she'd realize there's some big differences. Casey is not like Cindy - that's the first step Cindy has to take in admitting her daughter really did this crime.

Cindy says being a liar doesn't make you a murderer because Cindy certainly knows she lies too and never resorted to murder. Okay, fine, but Casey is a different person who both lies and most likely murdered. Yes, Cindy, you tried to guide her in your own lame way, but she turned out her own person who decided you and even little Caylee didn't matter that much in her life.

It's just my opinion, but Cindy seems to be protecting her "idea" of who her daughter was as being just like her. She seems to think Casey felt exactly like she did when she became a mother. Cindy felt only she could communicate real with Casey, only she could spot her lies, etc., Everything we've heard has been put through the Cindy view filter first.

I would imagine from early on in life, Casey had to fight for her own identity to the point of developing her own narcissisism where only Casey would matter otherwise Cindy would never let her be her own person. She's certainly not like Cindy, although both seem to have similar personality disorders.

Hope Cindy keeps going over the past and allowing herself the idea that Casey in not quite like her. They were not on the same page after all.

 

[elle1919]

I don't know if I can express this clearly.

Yes, I've noticed how Cindy identifies so much with her daughter who she says is so much like her, but she's fooling herself. Someone with strong Narcissist tendencies will make you feel like a special part of their team thus getting you to comply with their agenda. (join me and we're special) If Cindy really looked at Casey separate she'd realize there's some big differences. Casey is not like Cindy - that's the first step Cindy has to take in admitting her daughter really did this crime.

Cindy says being a liar doesn't make you a murderer because Cindy certainly knows she lies too and never resorted to murder. Okay, fine, but Casey is a different person who both lies and most likely murdered. Yes, Cindy, you tried to guide her in your own lame way, but she turned out her own person who decided you and even little Caylee didn't matter that much in her life.

It's just my opinion, but Cindy seems to be protecting her "idea" of who her daughter was as being just like her. She seems to think Casey felt exactly like she did when she became a mother. Cindy felt only she could communicate real with Casey, only she could spot her lies, etc., Everything we've heard has been put through the Cindy view filter first.

I would imagine from early on in life, Casey had to fight for her own identity to the point of developing her own narcissisism where only Casey would matter otherwise Cindy would never let her be her own person. She's certainly not like Cindy, although both seem to have similar personality disorders.

Hope Cindy keeps going over the past and allowing herself the idea that Casey in not quite like her. They were not on the same page after all.

I agree, good post. Cindy thought Casey was just like her, Cindy thought Casey was a good mom, Cindy thought Casey was a liar not a murderer, therefore....enable, enable, enable....pretend, pretend, pretend.....then one day the rose colored glasses fell off her face and instead of seeing what her child had turned into, she picked up those rose colored glasses and put them right back on her nose. I think it is more plausible in Cindy's mind to believe that her daughter is a split personality with the other name Zenaida than to believe Casey murdered her beautiful granddaughter. None of these people deserved little Caylee.

 

[Intermezzo]

:clap: I agree 100% with you. Mother of the Year, Casey wasn't......Cindy either in my book. I am blown away at how many times Cindy talks about what a wonderful, warm, loving mother she is & how Casey is just like her. Cindy is right about one thing, she and Casey are very much alike, neither can tell the truth.

I believe, in that interview, Cindy used the word "perfect" to describe them as mothers. What a :croc:

 

[Intermezzo]

(bold mine)

I know! Weird, huh? It's as if Cindy's identity alternately converges with, then diverges from Casey's. Maybe some of that comes with being a living-under-the-same-roof parent/grandparent; I don't know...

I've always thought (and mentioned in another JG-related thread somewhere) that Cindy was jealous/envious of Casey in some respects and those feelings fueled a portion of the Cindy/Casey conflict.

BBM
Perhaps Cindy was unhappy in her relationship with her husband during that time (didn't GA move out of the A home?) that she couldn't bring herself to be completely happy for an engaged Casey and Jesse. Misery loves Company.
My opinion of course

 

[yolorado]

Not only do I believe she plotted Caylee's murder for quite sometime but I also believe she was plotting CA & GA's as well.

Seriously wonder if she wasn't going there too. Course Cindy and George find it impossible to imagine that she'd kill once, let along thrice. Yet with the things KC had said to others about her parents and with her move-in plans with Amy, I think that George and Cindy were very probably on her list. I also think it's possible that she orriginally planned to off her folks but not Caylee. With the competition out of the way and the house, she could have imagined an idyllic life with little Cayle and her new man who would somehow change his mind when she could provide nice housing. (Wonder if she considered how she'd make payments.) Then, after the fight, something went down with Caylee out of KC's anger toward Cindy. However, prior to that, and particularly after, I have this feeling, based on the set up, that KC never intended for them to be around to testify against her...or FOR her for that matter.

 

[Curious Me]

http://www.wesh.com/download/2009/0730/20224553.pdf

#7532
"I mean Casey's a lot like um, I am as far as regards, I would lay down my life for all my children. If I knew right now that someone picked up the phone and says Mrs Anthony pick up a butcher knife and put it through your heart and we'll return Caylee, I would do it without question."

Cindy then went on to imply Casey would do the same thing. They're almost the same person, you see.

I think I remember George also saying how he'd lay down his life for his family. We'd probably all want to profess our love in such a dramatic way. Sorry, in this case, it just makes me want to say something snide about this great love that couldn't be moved to find out who was even watching their grand-daughter in case an emergency arose. I just think it may be time to prove your love for Caylee now. Mrs Anthony, take the knife, and cut all those lies out of you so Caylee can have justice.

 

[Intermezzo]

Cindy has to go back to the beginning of Caylee's life when she thought for sure Casey showed such love for her daughter. She had told Casey that things would be okay if she had the baby, and they were. (as Cindy said on her myspace)

Things were just peachy-keeny until..."Casey, what have you done?" I think her questioning how far back this really went was back to..."wait a minute, you mean maybe I made Casey have that baby she never wanted...no, some Zanny must have done it."

Good post

BBM
I'd like to add

IMO The A's should go back to, at the very least, Casey's last year of high school ..it seems she was a "good girl" up until then or I should say until the first half of that school year because something was up with Casey in the last half of her final year(I will add she did turn 18 in March, the legal age of majority in Florida, she may have begun to rebel or act out), that left her a 1/2 credit short. ( I'm not here to debate whether or not she graduated or not-that's another thread) she does get a job, followed by becoming pregnant, hides the fact she was pregnant, lies about being pregnant when confronted and was already pregnant when she met JG and tried to finger him as the baby daddy, has baby then abandons job then starts her new life of lies about having a great job and Nanny..etc...this girl had issues before the birth of Caylee

Just my :twocents:
Hope I wasn't too O/T

 

[Intermezzo]

http://www.wesh.com/download/2009/0730/20224553.pdf

#7532
"I mean Casey's a lot like um, I am as far as regards, I would lay down my life for all my children. If I knew right now that someone picked up the phone and says Mrs Anthony pick up a butcher knife and put it through your heart and we'll return Caylee, I would do it without question."

Cindy then went on to imply Casey would do the same thing. They're almost the same person, you see.

I think I remember George also saying how he'd lay down his life for his family. We'd probably all want to profess our love in such a dramatic way. Sorry, in this case, it just makes me want to say something snide about this great love that couldn't be moved to find out who was even watching their grand-daughter in case an emergency arose. I just think it may be time to prove your love for Caylee now. Mrs Anthony, take the knife, and cut all those lies out of you so Caylee can have justice.

BBM
:clap: Loved your last comment, :saythat: :highfive:

 

[Leila]

Not only do I believe she plotted Caylee's murder for quite sometime but I also believe she was plotting CA & GA's as well.

Momtective...............sadly, I think you're right. I think it's quite likely that GA and CA were also targets. Casey's statements to AH, telling her that her parents were divorcing and her mother was moving into an apartment and leaving the house to her, are good indications that this is what she wanted and anticipated. She invited AH to be her roommate in the house and AH not only agreed, but was making plans on moving in.

 

[MidAtlanticNative]

[/B]

BBM
Perhaps Cindy was unhappy in her relationship with her husband during that time (didn't GA move out of the A home?) that she couldn't bring herself to be completely happy for an engaged Casey and Jesse. Misery loves Company.
My opinion of course

My thoughts exactly!

 

[Curious Me]

Good post

BBM
I'd like to add

IMO The A's should go back to, at the very least, Casey's last year of high school ..it seems she was a "good girl" up until then or I should say...................................................................
and was already pregnant when she met JG and tried to finger him as the baby daddy, has baby then abandons job then starts her new life of lies about having a great job and Nanny..etc...this girl had issues before the birth of Caylee
Just my :twocents:
Hope I wasn't too O/T

Your two cents is worth more than that. Thanks for the food for thought, fellow Websluether.

I agree, Casey did have issues before the birth of Caylee. I, too, wonder if something changed her behavior dramatically at the end of h.s. Getting a job is not holding down a job. Having a baby is not loving a baby. I see your point that from the outside she looked like a good girl. So, what happened?

On the other hand, was the end of h.s. about the time Casey, herself, started to realize she was somehow different than her friends. Maybe she couldn't really feel these emotions people described like love, deep remorse, what it feels like to be genuine. Please don't think I'm labeling as a diagnosis, but I do see such definite NPD tendencies in Casey.

Narcissists often sense they're not like everyone else. It starts to show when young adult situations make it more obvious to them. Then, they may start calling themselves "special" and move above guilt, remorse, and the law. They're so different that they're entitled to lie to you or take what they need. Was this quietly coming out alittle more every year? Did Cindy ever notice something missing in Casey?

Casey seemed out of touch with her motherly feelings. I've noticed Casey kept describing how a mother would feel by using Cindy's descriptions of the motherly connection - the bond and how a mother can sense things intuitively. She even told Lee in jail that Mom would understand that feeling. Wonder if it was because she just plain could not feel that real love for Caylee. I felt that was Cindy's description, not how Casey felt about Caylee.

It's just not that simple, is it? We can all learn how to be better, more loving, more honest from this case. I may lose my own mind before the verdict is finally read tho'!

There are millions of children out there we need to protect better. May we all be more aware today of your own personal power to do so.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

I believe, in that interview, Cindy used the word "perfect" to describe them as mothers. What a :croc:

Who even says that about themselves? One might say it about a friend "She's such a perfect mother." But to say it about you and your daughter is simply weird. Talk about grandious.

 

[Curious Me]

As you can see, it's still hard for the whole family to relate to the public's opinion of them. They still can't understand what they should have done to protect and raise Caylee in a healthy environment. Still can't figure out how to give Caylee Her Justice.

Perfect? Are you kidding me, Cindy?

 

[Intermezzo]

Your two cents is worth more than that. Thanks for the food for thought, fellow Websluether.

I agree, Casey did have issues before the birth of Caylee. I, too, wonder if something changed her behavior dramatically at the end of h.s. Getting a job is not holding down a job. Having a baby is not loving a baby. I see your point that from the outside she looked like a good girl. So, what happened?

On the other hand, was the end of h.s. about the time Casey, herself, started to realize she was somehow different than her friends. Maybe she couldn't really feel these emotions people described like love, deep remorse, what it feels like to be genuine. Please don't think I'm labeling as a diagnosis, but I do see such definite NPD tendencies in Casey.

Narcissists often sense they're not like everyone else. It starts to show when young adult situations make it more obvious to them. Then, they may start calling themselves "special" and move above guilt, remorse, and the law. They're so different that they're entitled to lie to you or take what they need. Was this quietly coming out alittle more every year? Did Cindy ever notice something missing in Casey?

Casey seemed out of touch with her motherly feelings. I've noticed Casey kept describing how a mother would feel by using Cindy's descriptions of the motherly connection - the bond and how a mother can sense things intuitively. She even told Lee in jail that Mom would understand that feeling. Wonder if it was because she just plain could not feel that real love for Caylee. I felt that was Cindy's description, not how Casey felt about Caylee.
It's just not that simple, is it? We can all learn how to be better, more loving, more honest from this case. I may lose my own mind before the verdict is finally read tho'!

There are millions of children out there we need to protect better. May we all be more aware today of your own personal power to do so.

Thanks for the kind words CM :blowkiss:
BBM
Yes, I agree those were Cindy's words and not Casey's

As I interpret it,
1) She was using this intuitive connection comment as a way to keep Lee from pressuring her for answers-(my words) I know she's okay because you don't or can't understand the connection between a mother and child so stop questioning me
and,
2) Was making herself, via her mother, come across as special mothers because they had this intuitive connection with their kids... and with that ego stroking comment it would help bring Cindy over to her side

That's my :twocents: again
I need to go get my morning Espresso :coffeecup:

 

[Intermezzo]

Who even says that about themselves? One might say it about a friend "She's such a perfect mother." But to say it about you and your daughter is simply weird. Talk about grandious.

BBM
Most people don't.

 

[Nuisanceposter]

Thanks for the kind words CM :blowkiss:
BBM
Yes, I agree those were Cindy's words and not Casey's

As I interpret it,
1) She was using this intuitive connection comment as a way to keep Lee from pressuring her for answers-(my words) I know she's okay because you don't or can't understand the connection between a mother and child so stop questioning me
and,
2) Was making herself, via her mother, come across as special mothers because they had this intuitive connection with their kids... and with that ego stroking comment it would help bring Cindy over to her side

That's my :twocents: again
I need to go get my morning Espresso :coffeecup:

ITA with both points - she wanted to not only dissuade Lee from continuing that line of questioning by saying something he could not refute, but also meant to glorify herself as this awesome maternal beacon that can sense her daughter's status accurately despite not having seen or heard from her (except for that oh so timely fake call from Caylee, where the call was conveniently cut short before Casey could get a chance to talk to Zanny or for anyone else to be able to ask Casey to talk to Caylee.) The self-compliement intended by praising her special bond no man would understand is not only meant to flatter herself, IMO it's the way she was taught to regard herself and her mother - smarter and better capable than these caveman men (GA and LA) we live with.

(In fact, I think that's part of Lee's uncomfortable and unreal adoration of Casey - he was raised by his mother and sister to believe that Cindy is supreme, and Casey, as a mini-Cindy, is as well. I think he was conditioned to view both with a bit of hero worship. Cindy, I can see, it's more a bit her right as mother, but Casey? Come on, Lee, you're not her lackey, she's nothing to be proud of, and Caylee deserved better than to have be a mini-Cindy/Casey.)

But not to get too O/T: my paraphrase of Casey to Lee: "I know in my gut that she's still out there, and she's still okay"

Here's the kicker, IMO - that awesome motherly intuition she speaks of, her 'gut', was all for s**t anyway, since Caylee...lying dead at age 2 years and 10 months, left to rot in the woods, exposed to weather and scavenging animals...while still technically out there, was not by any stretch of the imagination at ALL okay.

Unless Casey meant 'okay' as in 'hasn't been discovered by anyone yet and is still decomposing as we speak, hopefully destroying the evidence that shows I killed her and left her there'...which I'm pretty sure she did. IMO.

But if she meant Zanny had Caylee, and she knew in her 'gut' that Caylee was really okay, as in not dead, that maternal instinct was still really wrong. It's a lose/lose situation for Casey either way. Ugh, the way she will NOT answer questions and gets really angry if anyone tries to pin her down to an exact answer, threatening to throw a tantrum until they submit...who treats their parents - their only ally and possible ticket out - like that? She must have had a lot of practice and kept them all in fear of her outbursts, probably going back to when she was a child, or even a toddler....maybe that's why she had those books about training toddlers who tantrum - she remembered her own childhood, knowing how she behaved and how it worked, and perhaps she wanted to cut Caylee off before she got a chance to employ Casey's own methods on Casey. if that's what Casey did herself, that's what she's going to expect her own daughter to do - I've often thought that those who don't try to get into other's minds like we here do don't try to think like others, and expect people to do the same things they themselves do or have done.

That whole family, but Casey especially - sick, sick, sick. I don't even understand how she could sit there and lie her butt off like that. If I had caused the death of my own child, even by accident over which I had no control, I would confess my part in it and accept whatever consequences that came as what I deserved, and nothing any judge or jail could hand my way would be worse than having to live with the knowledge that my own child's death was my fault. IMO.