"I don't think my daughter's... my granddaughter's birth is plotting this murder"

[lin]

I like how in the same breath she claims Casey is too smart to make a dumb mistake but not smart enough to plot to murder.

Plotting a murder is the easy part. Getting away with it is what is hard. And Casey's crime falls right within those lines.

I like the contradiction there too... She's too smart to do something so stupid, then realizes what she's said and as always, backtracks, this time with the opposite. But what really got me is so early on admitting Caylee was dead, even in this indirect and I'm sure unintentional way.

Had I not been convinced long ago to change my opinion of the A's and their alleged denial fueled actions/statements, I would be now.

 

[lin]

Going back a few pages on this thread, I think KC had been plotting this for a long time and also her offing parents, hence her big story about someone wanting to hurt the family. In the jailhouse interview, she sticks with the notion that someone took Caylee and Cindy went on to ask her if there was someone who was threatening their family. KC got all choked up and said to just let it be.

I wonder if she wanted everyone to believe there was this group or person who would take Caylee and then eventually, GA & CA would end up dead and it would be tied in with the kidnapping. All the while, it being KC who did it. Just a thought. maybe she isn't that smart to pull it off, but maybe she was trying to lay the groundwork. The more I think about it, the more confused I get. :bang:

Some of us are exploring that [ame=http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=81249] in the KC serial killer thread here.[/ame]

 

[CrankyPants]

You said:...I, too, wonder if something changed her behavior dramatically at the end of h.s. Getting a job is not holding down a job. Having a baby is not loving a baby. I see your point that from the outside she looked like a good girl. So, what happened?

On the other hand, was the end of h.s. about the time Casey, herself, started to realize she was somehow different than her friends. Maybe she couldn't really feel these emotions people described like love, deep remorse, what it feels like to be genuine.
---------------------------------------
I cannot answer this for you, but I have wondered about this time period since the beginning of this case. Something happened-something changed. IMO

I think that KC was terrified of "growing up" and becoming a self-sufficient adult. I imagine that fear was due, in part, to CA's controlling nature; I doubt KC was ever allowed to truly make her own decisions. We all see now that KC was not ever really held accountable for her actions. I imagine that CA's reluctance to accept that KC's done anything wrong is seated in her belief that KC is an extension of herself and condemning KC is, in CA's reality, condemning CA.

I think KC saw her high school friends getting jobs, planning for college and the future, maintaining romantic relationships and wondered to herself, "How do you do that?" I would even think that becoming pregnant was more of a way for her to continue in the "child" role. She probably had an idea that CA would take over the responsibility for her and that KC would have an excuse to continue living at home and not becoming a responsible adult.

I don't believe that growing up in the A household provided KC the tools with which to mature into a contributing member of society.

 

[Curious Me]

Cindy sees herself as Mother of the Household, Earth Mother, Mother knows Best, Mother of three children, the Mother that keeps on giving and giving ----after all, that fits best with HER MARTYR ROLE.

1 : a person who voluntarily suffers death as the penalty of witnessing to and refusing to renounce a religion (or daughter's innocense)
2 : a person who sacrifices something of great value and especially life itself for the sake of principle
3 : victim; especially : a great or constant sufferer

Which really fits in with what she said:

"I mean Casey's a lot like um, I am as far as regards, I would lay down my life for all my children. If I knew right now that someone picked up the phone and says Mrs Anthony pick up a butcher knife and put it through your heart and we'll return Caylee, I would do it without question."

Many of you have said Cindy didn't allow Casey to mature and that she kept her in that dependent role. IMO, Cindy had much more control over Casey and even George if she kept her martyr role going. In Cindy's mind she was holding that whole family together. From her martyr role she could use guilt. etc., to keep them all in line. It's not healthy to keep your children so dependent on you and try to fix everything for them, JMO.

 

[Curious Me]

I think that KC was terrified of "growing up" and becoming a self-sufficient adult. I imagine that fear was due, in part, to CA's controlling nature; I doubt KC was ever allowed to truly make her own decisions. We all see now that KC was not ever really held accountable for her actions. I imagine that CA's reluctance to accept that KC's done anything wrong is seated in her belief that KC is an extension of herself and condemning KC is, in CA's reality, condemning CA.

I think KC saw her high school friends getting jobs, planning for college and the future, maintaining romantic relationships and wondered to herself, "How do you do that?" I would even think that becoming pregnant was more of a way for her to continue in the "child" role. She probably had an idea that CA would take over the responsibility for her and that KC would have an excuse to continue living at home and not becoming a responsible adult.

I don't believe that growing up in the A household provided KC the tools with which to mature into a contributing member of society.

Good post, CrankyPants. That's what I'm saying too. On top of loving her martyr role, Cindy did not let her family members grow from their mistakes letting the natural consequences fall on them - she, alone, could fix things and declare what's good.

In her July 3rd myspace plea, she says that when Casey was pregnant Cindy said things would turn out good and they were. In whose opinion? I'm not sure Casey, as an individual person, felt that her life was turning out good because underneath she didn't like and resented being a young mother. She had wanted to give the baby up for adoption. Lo and behold, Caylee being born locked Casey into being more dependent on Cindy. IMO, Cindy knew in her heart that Casey was so not ready to become a mother, but she didn't look at that but at how she could, again, fix the day.

 

[mitzi]

Good post, CrankyPants. That's what I'm saying too. On top of loving her martyr role, Cindy did not let her family members grow from their mistakes letting the natural consequences fall on them - she, alone, could fix things and declare what's good.

In her July 3rd myspace plea, she says that when Casey was pregnant Cindy said things would turn out good and they were. In whose opinion? I'm not sure Casey, as an individual person, felt that her life was turning out good because underneath she didn't like and resented being a young mother. She had wanted to give the baby up for adoption. Lo and behold, Caylee being born locked Casey into being more dependent on Cindy. IMO, Cindy knew in her heart that Casey was so not ready to become a mother, but she didn't look at that but at how she could, again, fix the day.

My bold above.

I think it's not so much that Cindy thought she alone could fix things. More like Cindy wanted anything negative about any member of her immediate family to go no further than the walls on Hopespring. Anything negative would put Cindy, herself, in a bad light. (as she saw it.)

 

[Truthwillsetufree]

Cindy sees herself as Mother of the Household, Earth Mother, Mother knows Best, Mother of three children, the Mother that keeps on giving and giving ----after all, that fits best with HER MARTYR ROLE.

1 : a person who voluntarily suffers death as the penalty of witnessing to and refusing to renounce a religion (or daughter's innocense)
2 : a person who sacrifices something of great value and especially life itself for the sake of principle
3 : victim; especially : a great or constant sufferer

Which really fits in with what she said:

"I mean Casey's a lot like um, I am as far as regards, I would lay down my life for all my children. If I knew right now that someone picked up the phone and says Mrs Anthony pick up a butcher knife and put it through your heart and we'll return Caylee, I would do it without question."

TinaD - can you provide more info about the "like before" statement? You think Casey's rage was an ongoing problem?

Bolded part of quote by me- CA made this statement but not once did she go and hand posters of a "Missing" Caylee at Sawgrass Apts., the supposedly last place this baby was seen. CA did not walk around the block knocking on doors looking for Caylee, she ordered everyone else to do it but she wasn't willing to. CA ran TM and the "professional" searchers off out and away from Florida to stop the searches for her Grand daughter, who were willing to risk life and limb going through rodent, snake infested swamp areas to look for Caylee. CA refused to give searchers any article of Caylee's to assist the searchers in their hunt for her Grandchild. CA sent an email to someone discussing how she should have given LE one of the dog brushes to LE instead of Caylee's.

CA have been on television numerous times spewing her venom but not once has she begged for justice for Caylee or for LE to find the "real" killer of Caylee, since she proclaims KC's innocence. CA destroyed any possible evidence there may have been on the slacks that were in the car and who knows what else what else was in the car CA took it upon herself to decide needed washing and cleaning of any possible evidence of the real killer of Caylee. Pick up a butcher knife and put it through her heart to bring Caylee back? I don't think so, CA's actions when this first appeared on national tv 31/32 days after the fact, all CA could do was bad mouth the people that were really trying to help and find Caylee. CA could not and would not and in some cases unless ordered by the court assist LE to help find justice for Caylee.

A butcher knife through the heart statement is once again, all smoke and bein' blown up someone's, well , it's being blown.
Mother always told me actions speak louder than words. I believe my Mother.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

I think that KC was terrified of "growing up" and becoming a self-sufficient adult. I imagine that fear was due, in part, to CA's controlling nature; I doubt KC was ever allowed to truly make her own decisions. We all see now that KC was not ever really held accountable for her actions. I imagine that CA's reluctance to accept that KC's done anything wrong is seated in her belief that KC is an extension of herself and condemning KC is, in CA's reality, condemning CA.

I think KC saw her high school friends getting jobs, planning for college and the future, maintaining romantic relationships and wondered to herself, "How do you do that?" I would even think that becoming pregnant was more of a way for her to continue in the "child" role. She probably had an idea that CA would take over the responsibility for her and that KC would have an excuse to continue living at home and not becoming a responsible adult.

I don't believe that growing up in the A household provided KC the tools with which to mature into a contributing member of society.

Which is really kind of weird since she had the role model of a working Mom. CA had to earn a degree to become a Nurse. I wonder why education was not a higher priority in that household. My brother was never led to believe going to college was an option. We just talked like "when you go to college where do you think you'd like to go?" stuff like that. I'm not saying it's for everybody but you can plant the seed. Having a baby can get in the way too of course but I don't get the feeling they stressed getting an education too much - oh I forgot KC barely finished HS - nevermind.:doh:

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Good post, CrankyPants. That's what I'm saying too. On top of loving her martyr role, Cindy did not let her family members grow from their mistakes letting the natural consequences fall on them - she, alone, could fix things and declare what's good.

In her July 3rd myspace plea, she says that when Casey was pregnant Cindy said things would turn out good and they were. In whose opinion? I'm not sure Casey, as an individual person, felt that her life was turning out good because underneath she didn't like and resented being a young mother. She had wanted to give the baby up for adoption. Lo and behold, Caylee being born locked Casey into being more dependent on Cindy. IMO, Cindy knew in her heart that Casey was so not ready to become a mother, but she didn't look at that but at how she could, again, fix the day.

But then mix in CA's resentment of her juggling act and what a mess! The other point is though, like in the case of GA with money, it did greatly affect CA's life too. I mean here she was working, working, working, while others' were taking, taking, taking.

 

[lin]

Which is really kind of weird since she had the role model of a working Mom. CA had to earn a degree to become a Nurse. I wonder why education was not a higher priority in that household. My brother was never led to believe going to college was an option. We just talked like "when you go to college where do you think you'd like to go?" stuff like that. I'm not saying it's for everybody but you can plant the seed. Having a baby can get in the way too of course but I don't get the feeling they stressed getting an education too much - oh I forgot KC barely finished HS - nevermind.:doh:

Her parents seem to believe she finished half a credit short of graduating and have both told this to LE. If I was betting on this, I'd bet the parents know and there is either a mistake in the records or a mistake understanding the records. Remember the document that made some feel she did graduate late had a handwritten note on it indicating something along the lines of 'this shows she graduated.' That handwritten note may be a misunderstanding or may be misunderstood. I think her parents know if she did or didn't.

 

[Curious Me]

But then mix in CA's resentment of her juggling act and what a mess! The other point is though, like in the case of GA with money, it did greatly affect CA's life too. I mean here she was working, working, working, while others' were taking, taking, taking.

I'm with you there, woe.be.gone, that CA was kinda stuck in this resentful martyr role. I read CA mother's emails about poor Cindy and at first, I really thought CA was being treated terribly by her family...

...and then after so many circus acts, I came to understand how CA herself was clinging to that role for the control and power it gave her. Early on, she often would use the grieving grandparent card with LE, at the same time she was saying Caylee was still alive. So, I know she has a full deck of emotional cards she pulls out to use as a manipulative ploy when things get too uncomfortable.

Poor deluded CA, she means well but is dangerous too. I guess she felt too loving a person because it was time for some tough love to change things. But guess CA was "too loving" to set limits, again she clung to her own ego needs until it was too late. She was choosing that resentful martyr role for some reason.

On top of everything else, CA is too proud to admit to any mistakes herself, and the whole family feels they owe it to her to keep up appearances, but behind her back they are resentful too, very resentful.

The one right thing CA can do now is humble herself to the real truth and make sure Caylee finally gets the honor of being the only innocent one in that family.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Her parents seem to believe she finished half a credit short of graduating and have both told this to LE. If I was betting on this, I'd bet the parents know and there is either a mistake in the records or a mistake understanding the records. Remember the document that made some feel she did graduate late had a handwritten note on it indicating something along the lines of 'this shows she graduated.' That handwritten note may be a misunderstanding or may be misunderstood. I think her parents know if she did or didn't.

Have you ever in your life though encountered so much ambiguity with anyone? It's all so mysterious - don't know for sure if KC finished H.S. It's not if she did or didn't; it's noone knows for sure. Can't/don't know who the bio of Caylee was; they claim noone knows for sure. Let's see, what else? Oh yes, don't know for sure if it was June 8 or June 15 we last saw our granddaughter - sorry made a mistake (dang that photo!). Let's see, anything else? Oh, don't know for sure if daughter is working as in income producing work; noone knows for sure. More? Don't know for sure where KC was with Caylee for 31 days but we know they were somewhere. BUT, and finally, WE KNOW FOR SURE THAT CAYLEE IS ALIVE - THAT's ONE THING WE KNOW FOR SURE. :waitasec:

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Ha, and the thread is CA stating "I don't think....." HELP!

 

[Curious Me]

I've been following this case a long time, just like all of you. Today, I watched some videos of Caylee and the family life she had in the Anthony home.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ia3PlgHys80&feature=related"]YouTube - In Loving Memory of Caylee Marie Anthony[/ame]

Keeping on the subject of Cindy not realizing things, after watching those videos, I can see how Cindy really thought things were going good. Oh, how beautiful and delightful Caylee was! Look for yourself, it looks like a loving household.

I feel I have to keep in touch with my own compassion and empathy. The longer this case drags on, the more we have a tendency to see things in the abstract.

Cindy did keep a clean house. The video of her in the pool with Caylee shows a loving grandma. Cindy worked a full-time job to keep a roof over the family. Cindy's motives were honorable to provide with hard work. None of us are perfect. Try raising a daughter like Casey, it can't be easy. Cindy really had no knowledge of how dysfunctional her and Casey's relationship was. I am not a cold person, and have to admit it is sorrow and pity I feel sometimes for Cindy.

I know, I know, she was stuck in her resentful martyr role, and she can be obnoxious, tells confusing lies, is greedy to cash in on opportunities, and has some kind of personality disorder. But just for a minute tho', I feel great pity for her.

Okay, done. Now how could this woman that looks like she has things under control fail to find out/meet her beloved granddaughter's nanny?

How did she fail to surmise Casey did not have a job at Universal? She was so up in her daughter's business constantly, yet missed what was going on right under her nose.

It is hard to look at those videos of Caylee knowing how it's going to end. Cindy, of all people, it seems, could have done more to insure Caylee's safety especially when it became obvious Casey was totally out of control.

Later, why didn't she go door to door turning Orlando apart personally searching for an alive Caylee? Did Amy or Jessie need to be pointed at when Cindy knew darn well Casey displayed the most suspious behavior?

I do feel compassion for Cindy, but wish she wouldn't have looked the other way sometimes when it really mattered.

 

[MissJames]

I've been following this case a long time, just like all of you. Today, I watched some videos of Caylee and the family life she had in the Anthony home.

YouTube - In Loving Memory of Caylee Marie Anthony

Keeping on the subject of Cindy not realizing things, after watching those videos, I can see how Cindy really thought things were going good. Oh, how beautiful and delightful Caylee was! Look for yourself, it looks like a loving household.

I feel I have to keep in touch with my own compassion and empathy. The longer this case drags on, the more we have a tendency to see things in the abstract.

Cindy did keep a clean house. The video of her in the pool with Caylee shows a loving grandma. Cindy worked a full-time job to keep a roof over the family. Cindy's motives were honorable to provide with hard work. None of us are perfect. Try raising a daughter like Casey, it can't be easy. Cindy really had no knowledge of how dysfunctional her and Casey's relationship was. I am not a cold person, and have to admit it is sorrow and pity I feel sometimes for Cindy.

I know, I know, she was stuck in her resentful martyr role, and she can be obnoxious, tells confusing lies, is greedy to cash in on opportunities, and has some kind of personality disorder. But just for a minute tho', I feel great pity for her.

Okay, done. Now how could this woman that looks like she has things under control fail to find out/meet her beloved granddaughter's nanny?

How did she fail to surmise Casey did not have a job at Universal? She was so up in her daughter's business constantly, yet missed what was going on right under her nose.

It is hard to look at those videos of Caylee knowing how it's going to end. Cindy, of all people, it seems, could have done more to insure Caylee's safety especially when it became obvious Casey was totally out of control.

Later, why didn't she go door to door turning Orlando apart personally searching for an alive Caylee? Did Amy or Jessie need to be pointed at when Cindy knew darn well Casey displayed the most suspious behavior?

I do feel compassion for Cindy, but wish she wouldn't have looked the other way sometimes when it really mattered.

Thanks for the reminder :blowkiss:

I caught a tiny bit of the show,Snapped,this afternoon.They were showcasing the G Smart murder.His wife,P Smart,convinced her teen student / lover to murder her husband.The part that caught my attention was about the dad of the teen who shot G.Rumors were floating around that his gun had been used to kill G Smart.He took the gun from his cabinet and noticed it had been cleaned.The dad knew he put the gun away after shooting targets and it should have been dirty.He turned it over to police.
He could have thrown it in a river or a dumpster to cover for his son.Instead he turned it over to LE.He did right thing.How hard it must have been to do that,knowing his son would be arrested!

 

[essies]

Thanks for the reminder :blowkiss:

I caught a tiny bit of the show,Snapped,this afternoon.They were showcasing the G Smart murder.His wife,P Smart,convinced her teen student / lover to murder her husband.The part that caught my attention was about the dad of the teen who shot G.Rumors were floating around that his gun had been used to kill G Smart.He took the gun from his cabinet and noticed it had been cleaned.The dad knew he put the gun away after shooting targets and it should have been dirty.He turned it over to police.
He could have thrown it in a river or a dumpster to cover for his son.Instead he turned it over to LE.He did right thing.How hard it must have been to do that,knowing his son would be arrested!

The same is true for the Unibomber's brother and Mark Hackings family. They did the right thing-which isn't always the easy thing to do! I think Cindy and crew almost had a "don't ask-don't tell" unwritten rule. Cindy didn't ask many questions because, IMO, she was afraid of the truth. She knew she probably wouldn't get the truth-so why ask!
Problem is-the welfare of an innocent child was at stake! I'll give Cindy the benefit of the doubt about not knowing the depth of KC's hatred for her. But, Cindy did realize her daughter was a sociopath and said so. Therefore her radar should have been fine tuned to signs of deceptions and she should have verified as much as she could concerning KC and her parenting. As a nurse and a grandmother she had a responsibility regarding Caylee's welfare that went far beyond buying toys!!
My question to Cindy is...

 

[TripleA]

YouTube - In Loving Memory of Caylee Marie Anthony

Still, more than a year has passed and I see those videos and cry.

Cindy knows, she just isn't strong enough to do the right thing. Her weakness is not her love of "all" of her children, it is her own selfish pride.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Her parents seem to believe she finished half a credit short of graduating and have both told this to LE. If I was betting on this, I'd bet the parents know and there is either a mistake in the records or a mistake understanding the records. Remember the document that made some feel she did graduate late had a handwritten note on it indicating something along the lines of 'this shows she graduated.' That handwritten note may be a misunderstanding or may be misunderstood. I think her parents know if she did or didn't.

I'm rereading a few posts here and this is another funny one (not the post, the claim within). You mean to tell me, that if someone graduates by going to summer school or something that the school does not issue a bonafide transcript/diploma? Hogwash.

Is that CA's handwriting on the document? lin - of all people - don't go soft on us now - ha! :crazy:

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Still, more than a year has passed and I see those videos and cry.

Cindy knows, she just isn't strong enough to do the right thing. Her weakness is not her love of "all" of her children, it is her own selfish pride.

Or, CA's guilty of something too.
There is something wrong here; and it's stink'n to high heaven!

 

[essies]

I'm rereading a few posts here and this is another funny one (not the post, the claim within). You mean to tell me, that if someone graduates by going to summer school or something that the school does not issue a bonafide transcript/diploma? Hogwash.

Is that CA's handwriting on the document? lin - of all people - don't go soft on us now - ha! :crazy:

Well, according to George here - KC didn't graduate and didn't persue any path to complete that 1/2 credit or go any further with her education in any manner!! It starts on page 15 of his FBI interview!


George Anthony Transcript (done the day after Cindy's)
http://www.wftv.com/pdf/20224461/detail.html

This interview is interesting as I didn't realize that they never met Jesse till the day of Caylee's birth at the hospital and didn't like him from the start! This is a long PDF- but it's worth the read! I think it's easier to read Anthonese than listen to it!!:crazy: