I no longer believe that...

[Deleted member 39678]

What?? Lisa's mother must weigh at least 200lbs, so how could she not be able to roll over & suffocate her, or be able to easily carry her away? Have you SEEN Deborah Bradley? She has some girth to her. She would have NO problem harming/disposing of such a tiny infant. Your post makes no sense, IMO. Unless she lied about the "most recent pics", no way that baby weighed 30 lbs. Lisa was NOT overweight, according to the pics that were supposedly her last pics. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure this out. :snooty:

What are you taking about? Where did I say that Deborah couldn't roll over & suffocate Lisa? Whisperer was the member who posted the doubts not me.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

What?? Lisa's mother must weigh at least 200lbs, so how could she not be able to roll over & suffocate her, or be able to easily carry her away? Have you SEEN Deborah Bradley? She has some girth to her. She would have NO problem harming/disposing of such a tiny infant. Your post makes no sense, IMO. Unless she lied about the "most recent pics", no way that baby weighed 30 lbs. Lisa was NOT overweight, according to the pics that were supposedly her last pics. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure this out. :snooty:

BBM

I'll look at this part of your post next. Where in my post did I say that Lisa weighed 30 lbs ?

 

[KsStormy]

What are you taking about? Where did I say that Deborah couldn't roll over & suffocate Lisa? Whisperer was the member who posted the doubts not me.

I'm sorry, I must have missed that. I am sure that given Bradley's weight, it would have been very possible for her to roll over & suffocate an infant. I am not sure who speculated about that, but it IS very possible. She herself said that she might have "blacked out", so this IS a distinct possibility, especially since she told Judge Janine that she liked to have her children sleep in her bed.

http://www.examiner.com/video/judge...ah-bradley-fail-lie-detector-test-transcribed

[ame]http://video.foxnews.com/v/1208764392001/exclusive-parents-of-missing-baby-lisa-speak-out/?playlist_id=163706[/ame]

Amazes me how she transitions so quickly from sobbing on Jeremy to talking about what happened... also amazes me how she laughs, jokes, & smirks just 2 weeks after her youngest child was "kidnapped"... she looks drugged.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

I'm sorry, I must have missed that. I am sure that given Bradley's weight, it would have been very possible for her to roll over & suffocate an infant. I am not sure who speculated about that, but it IS very possible. She herself said that she might have "blacked out", so this IS a distinct possibility, especially since she told Judge Janine that she liked to have her children sleep in her bed.

http://www.examiner.com/video/judge...ah-bradley-fail-lie-detector-test-transcribed

http://video.foxnews.com/v/12087643...ssing-baby-lisa-speak-out/?playlist_id=163706

Amazes me how she transitions so quickly from sobbing on Jeremy to talking about what happened... also amazes me how she laughs, jokes, & smirks just 2 weeks after her youngest child was "kidnapped"... she looks drugged.

Of course its possible that Deborah accidentally killed Lisa. The point I was trying to make was why do people bend the facts to fit their theory's ?

And when they change things around depending on the post, it gets a bit ridiculous. MOO.

 

[Melon]

What was said and what is fact are clearly not the same. Lisa would have set some records if she was 10 months old and weighed 30 lbs. 22-24 lbs would put her in the 99th percentile. Logic does not conclude that Lisa weighed 30 lbs.

18-20 is a far better estimate since the parents couldn't be bothered to look at her stats from her 9 month WCC

I could say I weigh 30 lbs and I don't mind you believing it. But it's most likely not true.

BBM
:seeya: Hi there, it's me backtracking again.... coming back to this because I was chewing on it this morning. Here is a pic of BL at her front door http://www.hlntv.com/article/2011/1...nts-deny-they-have-stopped-cooperating-police from what I can tell the average height for a door knob is 36 inches. She is nowhere near that. Being generous and guesstimating her age in this pic at the young end at 5 months, she would have to have a ridiculous growth spurt to reach 30 inches by the time she was 11 months old. Like, double the average growth rate. If she was older than 5 months, and I think she was, I don't see how she could shoot up that approximate foot to meet the 30 inches as reported on her missing poster. The average growth rate in length of an infant girl is .86 inches per month. :moo: :moo:

So, do we have yet another extraordinary circumstance to add to this case (BL's amazing growth), do we have a misreporting of her size, if so was it intentional? :waitasec:


ETA: adding in my source for infant growth rate http://www.livestrong.com/article/5...-of-an-infant-from-zero-to-eleven-months-old/

 

[Little Ol Me]

BBM
:seeya: Hi there, it's me backtracking again.... coming back to this because I was chewing on it this morning. Here is a pic of BL at her front door http://www.hlntv.com/article/2011/1...nts-deny-they-have-stopped-cooperating-police from what I can tell the average height for a door knob is 36 inches. She is nowhere near that. Being generous and guesstimating her age in this pic at the young end at 5 months, she would have to have a ridiculous growth spurt to reach 30 inches by the time she was 11 months old. Like, double the average growth rate. If she was older than 5 months, and I think she was, I don't see how she could shoot up that approximate foot to meet the 30 inches as reported on her missing poster. The average growth rate in length of an infant girl is .86 inches per month. :moo: :moo:

So, do we have yet another extraordinary circumstance to add to this case (BL's amazing growth), do we have a misreporting of her size, if so was it intentional? :waitasec:


ETA: adding in my source for infant growth rate http://www.livestrong.com/article/5...-of-an-infant-from-zero-to-eleven-months-old/

Not that it really matters in the end, how tall or what Lisa's weight was, as someone above said, but...
I'm not really sure how high a doorknob usually is, although for an entry door, 36 inches, seems a little low to me.
Nevertheless, using the growth rate provided, .86 inches a month, and guessing that Lisa was right around 20 inches when born (that's fairly average) she would be right around 29 1/2 inches at 11 months.
.86x11=9.46. 9.46 + 20 = 29.46.

 

[Melon]

I know her actual height doesn't matter in the end, I am more curious about her posters possibly having incorrect info and if they do, why. There has been a lot of discussion about if she was in the 90+ percentile for her size. Here is another pic, http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/10/31/kansas-city-attorney-leaves-case-missing-baby-lisa-irwin/ she is clearly standing and nowhere near the doorknob. Two of the people have shorts on, DB's reflection has her in a tank top, BL is in a sleeveless top. That would lead you to think it's warm weather. Also in the reflection you can see the grass is pretty lush, the trees are very leafy. It appears there are shrubs in the backyard across the street full of leaves. I think this pic is probably from May or possibly June even. BL seems to be pretty short here and in the other pic in relation to the doorknob. I don't see how she grew that much from the time this picture was taken until she disappeared to meet the height listed on her posters. :moo::moo::waitasec:

 

[Donjeta]

I don't see anybody holding Lisa up in that photo against the door so she seems to be standing up on her own.

JMO, if Lisa was standing up against support at five months she would be an awfully precocious baby. I think she is probably older than that in the photo.

At about 9 months, your baby will probably start trying to pull himself up to a stand while holding onto furniture (so make sure everything in his path is sturdy enough to support him). If you help him along by propping him up next to the sofa, he'll hang on tight

http://www.babycenter.com/0_developmental-milestone-walking_6507.bc

Over the course of your baby's first year he will gradually gain coordination and muscle strength, and learn to sit, roll over, and crawl. Your baby will then probably move on to pulling himself up. He may be able to stand holding on to something when he's between six and 10 months (Sheridan 2008, NHS nd).

Read more: http://www.babycentre.co.uk/baby/development/walking/#ixzz2DKwqepft

 

[Little Ol Me]

I know her actual height doesn't matter in the end, I am more curious about her posters possibly having incorrect info and if they do, why. There has been a lot of discussion about if she was in the 90+ percentile for her size. Here is another pic, http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/10/31/kansas-city-attorney-leaves-case-missing-baby-lisa-irwin/ she is clearly standing and nowhere near the doorknob. Two of the people have shorts on, DB's reflection has her in a tank top, BL is in a sleeveless top. That would lead you to think it's warm weather. Also in the reflection you can see the grass is pretty lush, the trees are very leafy. It appears there are shrubs in the backyard across the street full of leaves. I think this pic is probably from May or possibly June even. BL seems to be pretty short here and in the other pic in relation to the doorknob. I don't see how she grew that much from the time this picture was taken until she disappeared to meet the height listed on her posters. :moo::moo::waitasec:

I understand your motive in questoning Lisa's height and weight.,.. and it would be very curious IF her height & weight were purposely reported wrong.
Because of people's different perceptions, I'm not sure how helpful it is, to try to determine her height and weight by looking at pictures.
In the picture where Lisa is standing at the door I would *guess* her to be around 7 or 8 months.

I looked at the picture again and one thing I noticed was that the younger boy, standing, seemed to be about eye level with the doorknob. If the doorknob is at 36 inches, then it appears he would be about 38-39 inches tall. I believe he was 6 years old when Lisa was reported missing, 38 inches would be rather short for a 6 year old boy, I think. On average, he would be mor close to 45 inches.
Could the doorknob be at 42 inches?

 

[Melon]

I understand your motive in questoning Lisa's height and weight.,.. and it would be very curious IF her height & weight were purposely reported wrong.
Because of people's different perceptions, I'm not sure how helpful it is, to try to determine her height and weight by looking at pictures.
In the picture where Lisa is standing at the door I would *guess* her to be around 7 or 8 months.

I looked at the picture again and one thing I noticed was that the younger boy, standing, seemed to be about eye level with the doorknob. If the doorknob is at 36 inches, then it appears he would be about 38-39 inches tall. I believe he was 6 years old when Lisa was reported missing, 38 inches would be rather short for a 6 year old boy, I think. On average, he would be mor close to 45 inches.
Could the doorknob be at 42 inches?

I think you are right and it is higher than 36 inches. I started looking at BL's height in perspective of the width of the door, those are pretty cut and dry unless you get a custom size. The doorknob is higher than the width of the door. Assuming their door is the one of the wider standard sizes at 36" your are correct on doorknob placement however, I still think there is a big discrepancy in her size in the photo and her height on her missing poster. :moo: :waitasec: It's not a foot or so, more like 6-8 inches. If she was developmentally on target and roughly 9 months in the photo, it's not really feasible she grew that much in that short of time. If she was much younger, it's more feasible.

I found some more pics of the front door just to try to get a good feel for her size. I do realize that perception may muddy things a bit but having her by a fixed object of pretty standard size does give me a feel for size. She doesn't seem impressively heavy, nor particularly tall. :moo:
http://www.christianpost.com/news/b...rious-evidence-proves-parents-innocent-61653/

http://www.hlntv.com/article/2011/1...e-year-old-parents-celebrate-birthday-private

http://www.larsondoors.com/storm_doors/how_to_buy_measuring/

 

[norest4thewicked]

I think that we are getting pretty far off topic here. Can we agree that if a person could come into the house and carry Lisa out, that someone from inside the house could also carry her out? Whether is is in their arms, or in a container of some sort - bucket, large Tupperware container, duffle bag, blanket, etc. that there would not be a difference?

 

[KsStormy]

I think that we are getting pretty far off topic here. Can we agree that if a person could come into the house and carry Lisa out, that someone from inside the house could also carry her out? Whether is is in their arms, or in a container of some sort - bucket, large Tupperware container, duffle bag, blanket, etc. that there would not be a difference?

I find it strange that anyone is even questioning that someone from inside the home could have carried her out, in whatever fashion. That is odd.

 

[norest4thewicked]

I find it strange that anyone is even questioning that someone from inside the home could have carried her out, in whatever fashion. That is odd.

I agree.

 

[Dewey2Me1MoThyme]

I find it strange that anyone is even questioning that someone from inside the home could have carried her out, in whatever fashion. That is odd.

I think we all know she was carried out, unless they believe she was sucked up by an alien life form. I do question if she was carried out in a paint bucket, I hink with 3 witnesses that night seeing a man with a child, I tend to believe she was carried out by someone but not in a container of any kind. OR, she could have been passed out a window to someone outside. Who carried her out is the mystery for me and many others.

 

[norest4thewicked]

I think we all know she was carried out, unless they believe she was sucked up by an alien life form. I do question if she was carried out in a paint bucket, I hink with 3 witnesses that night seeing a man with a child, I tend to believe she was carried out by someone but not in a container of any kind. OR, she could have been passed out a window to someone outside. Who carried her out is the mystery for me and many others.

So, do you believe that the person who took Lisa out of the house is the same one spotted 3 times "carrying a baby"?

 

[redheadedgal]

I find it strange that anyone is even questioning that someone from inside the home could have carried her out, in whatever fashion. That is odd.

I agree.

hi ladies! i can't find a post where this is questioned... help!

 

[redheadedgal]

OR, she could have been passed out a window to someone outside.

there are now two people who left no evidence at the house? maybe it's the same "small foreign faction" that "attempted" to "kidnap" JBR

 

[Deleted member 39678]

there are now two people who left no evidence at the house? maybe it's the same "small foreign faction" that "attempted" to "kidnap" JBR

BBM
As far as I know, LE hasn't released any forensic evidence that may have been collected in this case. They may have evidence to support the possibility that two people working together kidnapped Lisa. MOO.

 

[Dewey2Me1MoThyme]

So, do you believe that the person who took Lisa out of the house is the same one spotted 3 times "carrying a baby"?

I tink there is a darn good possibility. What I don't believe is that anyone connected to the case is bought and paid for, so to speak, by DB. IOW I don't think everyone is a liar.

 

[Dewey2Me1MoThyme]

there are now two people who left no evidence at the house? maybe it's the same "small foreign faction" that "attempted" to "kidnap" JBR

If it was someone known to have been at the house recently what evidence would they leave by standing outside a window, or even in the house, that would stand out?