IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #17

[GrainneDhu]

I have the same questions. Staging the bikes IMO is an unnecessary risk. It seems the perp would either grab the girls and their bikes, or grab the girls and leave the bikes. Why stage the bikes to focus the search on the lake, when the perp could have gotten on the highway and been quite far away before LE got involved?

Even setting aside the additional risk, when I try to think like the perp, it just doesn't make sense.

To me, the perp definitely wanted one or both girls. Now the perp has them. How does the perp feel at this point? Probably excited, eager, anticipating whatever gives them their jollies.

Not exactly in the frame of mind to postpone the second act by doing some staging.

Just grab and go, so that the perp can get to wherever the second act was to take place.

 

[Sunlight]

BROUSSEAU: I just wanted to say one more thing, you know, about those bloodhounds that were brought in by the FBI. They did one at a time. One for Elizabeth and one for Lyric. And I was explain to you, so the bikes were found right where those -- the rocky area is, where they`re guessing the girls may have entered the lake at.

But I was there, I watched the bloodhounds continue on into this dense forest area, which is about 400 yards. I watched them go into that area and they positively identified both girls were at that location.

GRACE: Right, at the edge of the water.

BROUSSEAU: And --

GRACE: Go ahead.

BROUSSEAU: Yes, not, you know, not at the -- just at the edge of the water. If you continue on down the bike trail east, there is about approximately 400 acres of forest, dense forest to the left side, and that is where the dogs continued on to and picked up the girls` scent. And that`s when they stopped and brought the dog back and they did the next dog.

From Nancy Grace interview. Could be the Maiden Lane woods...just a mistake on the amount of acres. MOO

 

[cindersoot]

Is this it?
TB...

Tammy Brousseau, an aunt of Lyric and Elizabeth, said that last Monday night, search dogs positively identified the girls’ scents in a wooded area east of where their bikes were found.

http://foxnewsinsider.com/2012/07/22...-their-return/

OMG... Watch the video!!!! I never saw this one OMG!

Can you give another link.?

 

[cindersoot]

BROUSSEAU: I just wanted to say one more thing, you know, about those bloodhounds that were brought in by the FBI. They did one at a time. One for Elizabeth and one for Lyric. And I was explain to you, so the bikes were found right where those -- the rocky area is, where they`re guessing the girls may have entered the lake at.

But I was there, I watched the bloodhounds continue on into this dense forest area, which is about 400 yards. I watched them go into that area and they positively identified both girls were at that location.

GRACE: Right, at the edge of the water.

BROUSSEAU: And --

GRACE: Go ahead.

BROUSSEAU: Yes, not, you know, not at the -- just at the edge of the water. If you continue on down the bike trail east, there is about approximately 400 acres of forest, dense forest to the left side, and that is where the dogs continued on to and picked up the girls` scent. And that`s when they stopped and brought the dog back and they did the next dog.

From Nancy Grace interview. Could be the Maiden Lane woods...just a mistake on the amount of acres. MOO

Okay that explains a lot!

 

[RNER]

BROUSSEAU: I just wanted to say one more thing, you know, about those bloodhounds that were brought in by the FBI. They did one at a time. One for Elizabeth and one for Lyric. And I was explain to you, so the bikes were found right where those -- the rocky area is, where they`re guessing the girls may have entered the lake at.

But I was there, I watched the bloodhounds continue on into this dense forest area, which is about 400 yards. I watched them go into that area and they positively identified both girls were at that location.

GRACE: Right, at the edge of the water.

BROUSSEAU: And --

GRACE: Go ahead.

BROUSSEAU: Yes, not, you know, not at the -- just at the edge of the water. If you continue on down the bike trail east, there is about approximately 400 acres of forest, dense forest to the left side, and that is where the dogs continued on to and picked up the girls` scent. And that`s when they stopped and brought the dog back and they did the next dog.

From Nancy Grace interview. Could be the Maiden Lane woods...just a mistake on the amount of acres. MOO

Anything confirmed by LE/FBI regarding this statement?

 

[cindersoot]

I wonder now if a paddleboat was a lure (waters edge) yet they only went to the left (the woods) not across the lake. Perp has them hurry to the lake for a boat ride. JMO

 

[Jax49]

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8183312&highlight=400+acres#post8183312

This.

Quoting Aunt T

The next dog positively identified the next girl`s person to be in that forest. And that`s kind of where I believe it went cold for them. The dogs couldn`t pick up anymore scent. I`m not saying for sure that they couldn`t pick up more scent and go on further, but that is where the investigators stopped, brought the dogs back, told us that, yes, the dogs positively identified the girls to go past the site where the bikes were dropped and farther on into the forest.

***

I read this long ago (way too long ago) and had really forgotten that Tammy got her info from LE. Makes it a lot more interesting than just her impression of what the dogs actions meant. MOO, of course.

Makes me lean towards a quick snatch, by one or more person, at or near where the bikes were found and quickly into a vehicle. ???????????

 

[Sunlight]

Anything confirmed by LE/FBI regarding this statement?

Honestly....I don't think they've confirmed or denied anything about this case one way or the other. Only that they found the bikes and the purse and two little girls are missing.

 

[GrainneDhu]

If the girls went inside a house and their bikes were in or near a garage, the perp would have an actual NEED to move the bikes AWAY from their property.

Why not bring the bicycles inside with the girls and move them when the girls were moved? The perp had to have anticipated there would be a search for two girls that age and made plans to either conceal them or move them.

If that were the case, then the perp's time inside the house with the girls was limited, so why waste time on staging the bicycles?

 

[CN2Souls]

Link doesn't work?

http://foxnewsinsider.com/2012/07/2...and-elizabeth-collins-plead-for-their-return/

 

[GrainneDhu]

I remember this also. MCM or TB. The handler gave the dogs the girls shoes to smell, one at a time, the dogs went to the water and then to then into the woods, IIRC.
This is what I remember and I also don't know how to find the video or transcript of it :blushing:

How do you know that the dogs were tracking versus casting around for more scent?

 

[Sunlight]

JMHO...but I haven't seen anything confirming that those woods were thoroughly searched (shoulder to shoulder), because they are very dense and full of poison ivy apparently. I've seen footage of volunteers walking through open areas and semi-wooded areas, but not thrashing through what those woods look like to me. MOO

 

[Snufamonbobball]

Why not bring the bicycles inside with the girls and move them when the girls were moved? The perp had to have anticipated there would be a search for two girls that age and made plans to either conceal them or move them.

If that were the case, then the perp's time inside the house with the girls was limited, so why waste time on staging the bicycles?

So that people would be looking for the girls down at the lake and not at your house. Everyone knows if you have a missing kid, people start knocking on doors, but it's going to take longer for them to knock on your door if they LE finds the bikes AWAY from your house and right by a local lake. In fact if you're lucky, they might actually start dragging the lake because they think the girls drowned there.
This is of course, only one senario that is possible, it's also possible they were at the lake, I just don't think we should discount every avenue in a case where we have such limited information.

 

[CN2Souls]

http://foxnewsinsider.com/2012/07/2...and-elizabeth-collins-plead-for-their-return/

Not to Quote myself, but in the video, TB is says FBI is POSITIVELY saying the girls were in the wooded are.....

HMMMMMMMMMMMMMM?

 

[Snufamonbobball]

If the girls did go inside a house or garage, then obviously the perp is local- and that perp may very well know the people who live down by the lake and whether they would be home or not. They would also be aware of the kind of risk it would be to move the bikes, and would be able weigh the risk/ benefit ratios for their actions. They would also be aware of what behaviors would arouse suspicion in the people around them.

 

[GrainneDhu]

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8183312&highlight=400+acres#post8183312

This.

I am convinced but then, this fits the theory of the abduction that I've held since I first heard about it.

On the other side, Aunt TB is not a handler of high level tracking dogs, so far as I know. I find it unlikely she was well acquainted with the specific dogs that were there and the way they work because both dogs were flown in.

Without some serious education in how scent dogs and particularly scenthounds work, what she's saying there is the guess of a layperson. Maybe she's right (I think she is) but maybe she's wrong.

Bloodhounds do tend to be whiny, vocal dogs. A lot of them vocalise when they are looking for scent and they vocalise after they've found scent and are actively tracking. But it's like any dog--you have to know that particular dog to know what those particular noises mean.

Anyone who has lived with a house dog probably knows that dog's particular way of communicating they need to go outside. Every dog varies and only someone who knows the dog will know what it means when the dog does it. To anyone else, it's just meaningless barking, whining, pawing, nosing, staring or whatever.

 

[Sunlight]

In that Fox video..."they have suspects".

Btw, I posted it on the timeline thread. Remember to post on that thread if you find something you have to keep going back to find...MOO

 

[CN2Souls]

I am convinced but then, this fits the theory of the abduction that I've held since I first heard about it.

On the other side, Aunt TB is not a handler of high level tracking dogs, so far as I know. I find it unlikely she was well acquainted with the specific dogs that were there and the way they work because both dogs were flown in.

Without some serious education in how scent dogs and particularly scenthounds work, what she's saying there is the guess of a layperson. Maybe she's right (I think she is) but maybe she's wrong.

Bloodhounds do tend to be whiny, vocal dogs. A lot of them vocalise when they are looking for scent and they vocalise after they've found scent and are actively tracking. But it's like any dog--you have to know that particular dog to know what those particular noises mean.

Anyone who has lived with a house dog probably knows that dog's particular way of communicating they need to go outside. Every dog varies and only someone who knows the dog will know what it means when the dog does it. To anyone else, it's just meaningless barking, whining, pawing, nosing, staring or whatever.

Thank you,
however I think (from the video I posted ^^^ there...) TB is also basing that the girls were in the woods with what She says the FBI told her.

 

[RNER]

Can we discuss recent arrests or jailings without being placed in timeout???

 

[RNER]

can we discuss recent arrests or jailings without being placed in timeout???

omg!!!!!!!!!!