IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #2

[palaminodee]

Thanks. No evdience the bikes were staged or anything? I have read all the posts. It is just frustrating...

we all have wondered that too, but they have not commented

 

[sherbetjello]

Yikes, I totally just realized this, and i am sure this is one of the first things said in these threads, but they went missing on Friday, the 13th.

 

[Jules71]

I found it interesting that the sheriff would not comment on the analysis of the bikes and he also specified the purse and bikes were the only evidence at the lake which he said did not mean they were for sure there.

 

[psalm91]

Welcome to WS!!!

Do you have any links to the articles about the dogs? Tia!

Here is one link that dogs picked up their scent:
http://www.kndu.com/story/19040459/fbi-dogs-joining-search-for-iowa-cousins-8-and-10

here is another that the original dogs did not pick up their scent:
http://hosted2.ap.org/vastr/5ecab0d...sins-Iowa/id-315c284cacac45e3ae277913f55e26f6

 

[lishac23]

I found it interesting that the sheriff would not comment on the analysis of the bikes and he also specified the purse and bikes were the only evidence at the lake which he said did not mean they were for sure there.

Interesting that the sheriff is saying that there is no for sure evidence that shows the girls were at the lake, but the Aunt/media stated that the dogs hit on a scent that the girls were at the lake. I find that a lot of confusion in this case is the fact that LE is reporting one thing and the family is reporting another.

 

[nursebeeme]

Black Hawk County Sheriff's Office Chief Deputy Rick Abben said authorities are still asking for the public's help during a daily news conference Tuesday afternoon. He said all tips are being investigated.

Anyone with information on the case should contact the Evansdale Police Department at 319-232-6682 or Iowa Division of Criminal Investigation at 1-800-346-5507.

He said the girls' bikes have been processed, but would not elaborate on what if anything was found. He said the bikes only tell authorities that the items were at the location, not necessarily that the girls were there.



Read more: http://www.kcci.com/news/central-io.../15572188/-/tpswgx/-/index.html#ixzz20v6D10bp

also says kayaks out on the lake as the water level is dropping

 

[Wishbone]

Thanks. No evdience the bikes were staged or anything? I have read all the posts. It is just frustrating...

It is baffling. That's why I'm going with Occam's razor for now. The girls were at the lake, they didn't go swimming because their shoes are nowhere to found. No signs of a struggle so if they were abducted then they knew or were afraid of the perp. OR they went into the woods and feel in a hole or something. For some reason, I feel like they are close by. Maybe a perp in the neighborhood, who knows.......

 

[BelieveinUFO]

I am curious, did anyone check the island in the Myers Lake. It looks like a good hidding place.

 

[Wishbone]

Interesting that the sheriff is saying that there is no for sure evidence that shows the girls were at the lake, but the Aunt/media stated that the dogs hit on a scent that the girls were at the lake. I find that a lot of confusion in this case is the fact that LE is reporting one thing and the family is reporting another.

Wait until we hear from the two mothers and the grandma tonight. I'm sure there will be more confusion.

 

[psalm91]

Interesting that the sheriff is saying that there is no for sure evidence that shows the girls were at the lake, but the Aunt/media stated that the dogs hit on a scent that the girls were at the lake. I find that a lot of confusion in this case is the fact that LE is reporting one thing and the family is reporting another.

FBi spokesperson confirmed the girls scents were picked up at the lake

http://www.kndu.com/story/19040459/fbi-dogs-joining-search-for-iowa-cousins-8-and-10

 

[LucyOso]

Interesting that the sheriff is saying that there is no for sure evidence that shows the girls were at the lake, but the Aunt/media stated that the dogs hit on a scent that the girls were at the lake. I find that a lot of confusion in this case is the fact that LE is reporting one thing and the family is reporting another.

The aunt may just be misinformed and talking based on her own limited knowledge and speculation about what is going on. We have seen this in other cases, too, where some family member is constantly making statements. Some people get chatty when under duress or traumatized, some people cry, some people shut-down, others laugh. She could just be commenting on what is running through her mind, worst fears, etc. She maybe commenting to make sure the media retains its interest. Who knows…?

 

[Jules71]

I am curious, did anyone check the island in the Myers Lake. It looks like a good hidding place.

Yes, they did,

 

[GrainneDhu]

Previous Courier stories about Meyers Lake also say 26 acres.
by MWildeCourier via twitter 2:25 PM

I've seen this reported 2 times now. It does look pretty big. Growing up we had a 14 acre lake & it was much smaller looking than Meyer's lake.

https://twitter.com/intent/user?screen_name=MWildeCourier&tw_p=twt&source=twt

There's two lakes in Iowa with similar names: Meyer's Lake (where Elizabeth and Lyric's bikes were found) and Lake Meyer.

Meyer's Lake is about 5 acres. If you look at the overhead shots that have been posted, it's clear it's really more of a pond than a lake.

 

[nursebeeme]

FBi spokesperson confirmed the girls scents were picked up at the lake

http://www.kndu.com/story/19040459/fbi-dogs-joining-search-for-iowa-cousins-8-and-10

it did come from the fbi spokesperson's mouth in that report... but it wasn't "for sure" it was "possible"

 

[gitana1]

SBM

Gitana, it may be a cultural/regional thing. I haven't seen the HLN interview but I've watched a bunch of other clips.

To me, as an Iowan, both moms are acting normal for the circumstances. They are being Iowans, plain and simple.

Iowa was founded, in large part, by Scandinavian settlers. If you think Garrison Keillor and Lake Wobegon, you're not too far off. It is absolutely normal here to be stoic and hide one's fear or pain.

Most Iowans would rather cut their own hand off using a rusty toenail clipper than cry in public except at funerals. There's a lot of social pressure to put other people at ease, which means doing a lot of smiling and not being too "out there" with one's intense emotions.

For instance, after my mom died, my father, sister and I went around and thanked all the hospice staff. We smiled and shook hands with all of them as we thanked them for the wonderful care they gave my mom. This was less than an hour after she died.

We didn't cry because we didn't want to make the staff feel bad and because, well, we'd rather cut our hands off with rusty toenail clippers than cry in front of strangers.

It's not good or bad, it's just the way Iowans are.

BBM. Totally makes sense. I was thinking yesterday that it could be a midwestern thing. I love Garrison Keiler! Love a Prairie Home Companion.

A great book that really underscores the culture of the region (well, perhaps more west like Minnesota and the Dakotas) is Giants in the Earth which describes a Norwegian family's immigration to the plains.

This cultural affect is very jarring to me. Totally different from my culture (we're talkin' third-world style wailing at funerals, etc). But, my dad was always very clam in an emergency and I have been at times as well. Also, when my dad was dying I was very upbeat, as someone else described. I didn't want to make him upset, so I was matter of fact and kept things calm and positive. Then I went home and wailed into my pillow.

I guess I just can't see why saying "she's laughing too much" or "she seems to be smiling inappropriately" is in any way pertinent to locating these two missing girls.

If no one is implying that the parents/families are involved, why are so many on this thread discussing their emotional reactions? How does Misty's demeanor on a television show have any bearing on what happened to these girls? How does her frame of mind give us a better picture of what took place?

I'm a fairly long-time member of WS, and there have been times when it has seemed appropriate to question a family's demeanor. But I feel some of the posts about Misty, in particular, are almost "catty" and do nothing to explain what happened to the girls, when it happened, where it happened, etc.

That's why I wish we could just focus on what is important here.

JMO, and not intended to criticize anyone in particular.

I totally agree that we should be able to comment on usual behavior especially in cases where that behavior might give us insight into why a person is missing. I've done that time and time again here on WS and elsewhere.

But in this case, with no evidence at all that the girls ran away or were injured by a family member, it just seems a little snarky to me to keep pointing out how inappropriate Misty's behavior is.

Again, JMO.

I'm sorry, I totally disagree with you. I think the family's reactions are super important. Maybe not to finding these two girls but to many other cases.

I have been sleuthing for years. I have been following missing kids cases for much longer than that. Making connections, noting reactions, etc., is very key to determining what direction to go in.

For example, comparisons with many other cases and different family's demeanor, was a long discussion on the Isabel Celis thread. I argued and do believe that her parents stoicism is not necessarily a sign of guilt. I gave several comparisons, like to Elizabeth Smart's dad.

No, noting, discussing and cataloging how the families react is very important to me and helps me learn what to look for and what not to focus on.

I do not believe that discussing the family's reactions is disrespectful or hurtful to finding the girls. If it bothers anyone, I would suggest moving on past. If it crosses a line, there is an alert button. :moo:

At one time I would have agreed with you Chris, but not these days.
After being a member here for years I know my opinion of that has changed dramatically.
Way too many crazies, sex offenders and evil people walking around out there for me to consider those statistics are any longer relevant.

True, there are way too many crazies and sex offenders walking around. It's like we are ducks in a pond. But the fact is, Chris is right.

Our knowledge of these case doesn't change stats. It remains the case that a child has more of a chance to be hit by lightning than taken by a stranger. It remains a fact that out of 258,000 missing kid cases per year, only 115 of those are stranger abductions: http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/p...august-2011/crimes-against-children-spotlight

Does that mean there is no stranger danger or that we should allow our kids to run all over the place unattended? Of course not. Because even though it's rare, the death of a child by a stranger/predator is the most frightening and horrific thing a parent can imagine.

Nevertheless, it is rare (although not at all rare enough). Which is why these cases are such big news and why we huddle around our computer screens and try to understand and solve these cases and pray and weep and share our outrage and sorrow, with our fellow man.

 

[psalm91]

It is baffling. That's why I'm going with Occam's razor for now. The girls were at the lake, they didn't go swimming because their shoes are nowhere to found. No signs of a struggle so if they were abducted then they knew or were afraid of the perp. OR they went into the woods and feel in a hole or something. For some reason, I feel like they are close by. Maybe a perp in the neighborhood, who knows.......

I think something scared them and either they are in the lake or someone took them. The family thinks someone took them I think that is why authorities are doing vehicles checks (as of yesterday anyway) because maybe someone kept them in the area and were trying to leave with them.

Someone brought up the fact that we've been having sightings of mountain lions in Iowa lately. Maybe they were scared into the lake. Why would there be no screams heard or any signs of struggle or shoes? Just really bizarre and sad!

 

[FrayedKnot]

BBM. Totally makes sense. I was thinking yesterday that it could be a midwestern thing. I love Garrison Keiler! Love a Prairie Home Companion.

A great book that really underscores the culture of the region (well, perhaps more west like Minnesota and the Dakotas) is Giants in the Earth which describes a Norwegian family's immigration to the plains.

This cultural affect is very jarring to me. Totally different from my culture (we're talkin' third-world style wailing at funerals, etc). But, my dad was always very clam in an emergency and I have been at times as well. Also, when my dad was dying I was very upbeat, as someone else described. I didn't want to make him upset, so I was matter of fact and kept things calm and positive. Then I went home and wailed into my pillow.





I'm sorry, I totally disagree with you. I think the family's reactions are super important. Maybe not to finding these two girls but to many other cases.

I have been sleuthing for years. I have been following missing kids cases for much longer than that. Making connections, noting reactions, etc., is very key to determining what direction to go in.

For example, comparisons with many other cases and different family's demeanor, was a long discussion on the Isabel Celis thread. I argued and do believe that her parents stoicism is not necessarily a sign of guilt. I gave several comparisons, like to Elizabeth Smart's dad.

No, noting, discussing and cataloging how the families react is very important to me and helps me learn what to look for and what not to focus on.

I do not believe that discussing the family's reactions is disrespectful or hurtful to finding the girls. If it bothers anyone, I would suggest moving on past. If it crosses a line, there is an alert button. :moo:



True, there are way too many crazies and sex offenders walking around. It's like we are ducks in a pond. But the fact is, Chris is right.

Our knowledge of these case doesn't change stats. It remains the case that a child has more of a chance to be hit by lightning than taken by a stranger. It remains a fact that out of 258,000 missing kid cases per year, only 115 of those are stranger abductions: http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/p...august-2011/crimes-against-children-spotlight

Does that mean there is no stranger danger or that we should allow our kids to run all over the place unattended? Of course not. Because even though it's rare, the death of a child by a stranger/predator is the most frightening and horrific thing a parent can imagine.

Nevertheless, it is rare (although not at all rare enough). Which is why these cases are such big news and why we huddle around our computer screens and try to understand and solve these cases and pray and weep and share our outrage and sorrow, with our fellow man.

Thanks button wasn't enough. Excellent post, Gitana.

 

[mrsu]

I find this case so frustrating!

I wish that the LE and families in these cases would realize that it helps the public (and us sluethers ) much more when they give straightforward information, not say the same thing 10 different ways, etc. I think it leads to a lot of confusion and only makes the family look more suspicious to the public. Whether that's the truth or not, I think that in turn makes the public less likely to pay attention or want to help. I have almost stopped listening to the family now because everyone says something different. I never understand that. There is only one truth, how can there be so many different versions? You would think in a situation like this everyone would want to make sure they were telling the same version so the correct info is out there.

And I know LE has reasons for not giving us all the information. But really, why not confirm the dogs picked up their scent? They don't have to say where it took them but verify they did track them somewhere?! For example, if the public knew they were tracked on the dock, perhaps someone would think back and remember 2 kids monkeying around on the dock when they otherwise would not have thought anything of it.

 

[Wishbone]

Maybe the FBI says possible as a way of covering any mistakes - so if they are off base they can say, well we said possible. Actually saying possible is a very good idea most times.

I'm trying to understand what I'm reading. Now its a strong possibility. And no reported sightings of the girls. So the man that said he saw them at 2:30 never reported that to LE only to Aunt Tammy, I guess.......



FBI spokeswoman Sandy Breault said the reaction from the dogs Monday night indicated a "strong possibility" the girls had been at the lake, less than a mile from their grandmother's house where they were last reported seen Friday. However, Breault said because there were no reported sightings, authorities couldn't be certain.


http://www.kndu.com/story/19040459/fbi-dogs-joining-search-for-iowa-cousins-8-and-10

 

[CoachSue]

FYI, tweeted by Ron Steele, anchor for kwwl news:
To correct an error being reported on Meyers Lake search, the lake is 26 acres, not 5 acres