IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #22

[SapphireSteel]

Mandy113, I agree, small rural towns or large urban cities, there is no safe refuge for our children anymore, it seems. Whether on a summer bike ride, playing with friends, a routine walk to school, or in the perceived safety of their bedroom, as in the case of missing Arizona 6-year-old Isabel Celis. Sadly, there are no safe harbors.
I pray that we can find some answers in preventing these senseless tragic child abductions/murders in our lifetimes.


Information vital to the safety of our children.

http://www.livesecure.org/how-to-protect-kids-from-predators-and-kidnappers/

Saftey Tips Every Parent Should Know
By Dr. Clint Van Zandt - Retired FBI BAU Profiler - was the victim of an abduction as a 7 year old child...

Information vital to the safety of our children.

It never actually was all that safe, my mother had a man try to grab her off her bike as a teen, and that would've been in the 40's.

Too many children die and disappear, but statistically speaking, it's usually at the hands of those who are supposed to care for them.

Random attacks are like lightening strike, rare but deadly when they occur so they stay in our minds.

I don't believe the girls were a random target and I never have, I've always felt they were taken by someone they knew and trusted.

:cow:

 

[csziggy]

I've tried to read up as much as I could. I've seen it mentioned a few times that the area was in a drought over the summer. Is it possible that the level of the river was quite a bit less than it is now. Would a 4X4 vehicle have been able to drive right in close to where the bodies were, through the river if it was shallow enough? Looking at the picture of where the taped off area is, it almost looks like there could be tire tracks coming out of the river close to where the white tarps are.

At the maximum, the water level was a foot lower than it is now.
http://nwis.waterdata.usgs.gov/ia/n...12-07-22&end_date=2012-12-07&site_no=05420680

My search request for water levels was between July 22 and now. Aug 11 the water level was at 6.8 feet, it dropped to 6.40 by Oct. 6. then rose abruptly the week following to just above 7 feet. Since then it has stayed between 6.8 and 7 feet.

As close as the bodies were to the edge of the river, I wonder if they were brought in by boat or canoe. The aerial views of the site seem to show that the river is nearly or completely dry north of this point. The bodies are in the edge of the vegetation from the river side.

A very shallow draft boat or canoe might be able to navigate that river even when very low, though there was an article July 30 about how the very low river levels, including the Wapsipinicon were affecting canoe and tube rentals:

Things are even drier on the Wapsipinicon River with the levels at Anamosa just 7% of normal.

Cindy Borst runs Lou Lou’s Landing in Olin and in a way the Wapsi River is a partner in her canoe and tube rental business. But Borst says it’s a partner not doing its share of the work lately. The river is so shallow now canoes can barely make the trip at all. She’s not sure how long she can continue renting to paddlers this summer.

And as for the inflatable tubes that float down the river, it’s gotten so bad she’s about to tell 60 people with advance reservations for this weekend to just forget it.
http://www.kcrg.com/news/local/Canoe-Rental-Businesses-Drying-Up-with-the-Rivers-164332226.html

That would be a good place to ask about the possibility of accessing that spot by the river.

 

[Marilynilpa]

No problem. Here's a map. I've highlighted an area in red in the top map showing land that appears to be public land. The map below shows the ownership. The other land is privately owned and, given what we know about where the children were located, I think it's quite possible that it was on private land.

Also, the link I posted at the bottom of the last page should take you straight to the correct location on the map. If you select the i (information) in the upper left part of the map, and then click on the parcel, it tells you the name of the owner and there's additional information below the map.

Otto, you never cease to amaze me with your map skills. You are such an asset to WS. Just wanted you to know.

 

[Marilynilpa]

Celebration of life for Elizabeth

http://www.facebook.com/#!/events/523849624306926/


Sadly some things are playing out that are dividing the family.

For some reason I don't see anything about a celebration of life for Elizabeth when I click on that link. When is it taking place? TIA

 

[SapphireSteel]

Getting into a boat or canoe (and possibly being seen) seems to me to be a convoluted way to dump two bodies.

I just can't see it...it's not impossible though I guess.

I just can't get my head around the circumstances of the bodies...it just seems such a strange way for them to be found, still identifiable.

They haven't decomposed at all from the sounds of things which means they were either killed just before they were found, or they were frozen.

It just doesn't sound like they've been there that long...unless they mummified I suppose...they may still have recognisable features.



:cow:

 

[hollye]

I know I am late back to here, but I have updated the map with the location where the girls were found with relation to other places of note. The link is in my siggy.

Continuing to pray for Liz and Lyric's families and the entire community!

 

[~n/t~]

Getting into a boat or canoe (and possibly being seen) seems to me to be a convoluted way to dump two bodies.

I just can't see it...it's not impossible though I guess.

I just can't get my head around the circumstances of the bodies...it just seems such a strange way for them to be found, still identifiable.

They haven't decomposed at all from the sounds of things which means they were either killed just before they were found, or they were frozen.

It just doesn't sound like they've been there that long...unless they mummified I suppose...they may still have recognisable features.



:cow:

Has that been confirmed by LE or was it just speculation by the reporter on JVM who cited police sources? TIA

 

[~n/t~]

For some reason I don't see anything about a celebration of life for Elizabeth when I click on that link. When is it taking place? TIA

I don't see it either. It brings me to my personal events.

 

[lishac23]

I was doing some reading/researching last night (wish I could pinpoint specific sites, but they all started blending together after awhile) and statistically (but anything is possible), two victims are more often murdered by a single perpetrator. Especially in cases of family members (even close friends). Once one victim is grabbed or subdued the other can become compliant without even being touched and will go willingly. Human nature/instinct to protect the ones we love.

In addition statistics showed that when there were two or more perpetrators, very rarely were there more than one victim. In pairs, one individual is more dominant than the other and the latter is typically someone who alone would not commit violent acts. They are only doing so to please their "partner". They become active participants but are not initiators (i.e, one for you and one for me).

All above based on statistics and opinions of criminal profilers.

 

[hollye]

For some reason I don't see anything about a celebration of life for Elizabeth when I click on that link. When is it taking place? TIA

It comes up for me. It is called Life & Love of Elizabeth Celebration started by her mother. It is scheduled for December 13th at 5pm at Heartland Vineyard Church 1405 Greenhill Road, Cedar Falls, Iowa 50613.

 

[lishac23]

Getting into a boat or canoe (and possibly being seen) seems to me to be a convoluted way to dump two bodies.

I just can't see it...it's not impossible though I guess.

I just can't get my head around the circumstances of the bodies...it just seems such a strange way for them to be found, still identifiable.

They haven't decomposed at all from the sounds of things which means they were either killed just before they were found, or they were frozen.

It just doesn't sound like they've been there that long...unless they mummified I suppose...they may still have recognisable features.



:cow:

Not to be disgusting, but mummification only last for so long before certain bugs reduce the body to bone. Usually occurs at about 50 days...give or take. I've seen a mummified corpse and you wouldn't be able to tell what the person looked like.

 

[SapphireSteel]

Thanks so much for the map Hollye, it really helps the map-challenged like me!

It would appear that the river is the most logical access, I agree.

I'm going to still assume they walked in...just because it's the simpler scenario and I hold the firm belief that people that commit crimes are inherently stupid.

My original thought was the girls were walked in by two seperate perps. I haven't changed my mind on that, and I'm praying they weren't just walked in three days ago.

There's just something odd about the choice dump site. It doesn't make any sense to me, unless the perps were panicked.

The COD will help a lot. Apologies for being graphic but my guess is a single shot, execution style. Are there any rumours yet?

 

[SapphireSteel]

Not to be disgusting, but mummification only last for so long before certain bugs reduce the body to bone. Usually occurs at about 50 days...give or take. I've seen a mummified corpse and you wouldn't be able to tell what the person looked like.

Yeah, it didn't seem likely.

Elizabeth's braces would have helped with ID.

 

[RNER]

Let us hope that the girls were not exposed to the elements or nature for very long and the perp(s) DNA is all over them. We can only hope!!!!

 

[Foxfire]

It never actually was all that safe, my mother had a man try to grab her off her bike as a teen, and that would've been in the 40's.

Too many children die and disappear, but statistically speaking, it's usually at the hands of those who are supposed to care for them.

Random attacks are like lightening strike, rare but deadly when they occur so they stay in our minds.

I don't believe the girls were a random target and I never have, I've always felt they were taken by someone they knew and trusted.

:cow:

SapphireSteel, I am not sure if Elizabeth Collins, and Lyric Cook, were taken by the hands of a stranger or others. I don't have a clue. Guess, the tragic results are the same either way. It is truly a silent epidemic across the US.
As investigative & communication technology advances, awareness spreads, laws updated, and prevention techniques improve. Maybe perception will become reality and Christmas celebrations will not include memorial services for missing/murdered children/persons..

http://www.katiecouric.com/on-the-show/2012/12/03/vanished-gone-without-a-trace/
Vanished: Gone Without A Trace

Read comments....

 

[tlcya]

Getting into a boat or canoe (and possibly being seen) seems to me to be a convoluted way to dump two bodies.

I just can't see it...it's not impossible though I guess.

I just can't get my head around the circumstances of the bodies...it just seems such a strange way for them to be found, still identifiable.

They haven't decomposed at all from the sounds of things which means they were either killed just before they were found, or they were frozen.

It just doesn't sound like they've been there that long...unless they mummified I suppose...they may still have recognisable features.



:cow:

I don't beleve they were visually identifiable. Otherwise they would have had parents ID bodies and we would not be awaiting confirmation by ME still.

I know I am late back to here, but I have updated the map with the location where the girls were found with relation to other places of note. The link is in my siggy.

Continuing to pray for Liz and Lyric's families and the entire community!

Thanks hollye, your map/timeline has been a huge resource for me and others. I have it in my siggy line and others have also commented how very comprehensive it is.

Thanks for all the effort you put in to keep these maps so current.

 

[SapphireSteel]

I was doing some reading/researching last night (wish I could pinpoint specific sites, but they all started blending together after awhile) and statistically (but anything is possible), two victims are more often murdered by a single perpetrator. Especially in cases of family members (even close friends). Once one victim is grabbed or subdued the other can become compliant without even being touched and will go willingly. Human nature/instinct to protect the ones we love.

In addition statistics showed that when there were two or more perpetrators, very rarely were there more than one victim. In pairs, one individual is more dominant than the other and the latter is typically someone who alone would not commit violent acts. They are only doing so to please their "partner". They become active participants but are not initiators (i.e, one for you and one for me).

All above based on statistics and opinions of criminal profilers.

I'm thinking the crimes you are describing above are most usually home invasion type crimes.

This is a different type of crime so you really can't use those as comparison, we would need to compare how many abductions of multiple children are single perp to get an accurate statistic.

:cow:

 

[kmclaren]

I know I am late back to here, but I have updated the map with the location where the girls were found with relation to other places of note. The link is in my siggy.

Continuing to pray for Liz and Lyric's families and the entire community!

hi hollye, some people (me anyways :blushing have signatures turned off - would you posting your map link in a message? thanks!

 

[hollye]

hi hollye, some people (me anyways :blushing have signatures turned off - would you posting your map link in a message? thanks!

Sure, I didn't realize that, though I know I cannot see them on my phone. Here it is...https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=218199748434644937742.0004c4d3e1a9fb56b4658&msa=0

 

[tlcya]

https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msi...=5.52155,6.767578&iwloc=0004c4d406effc9c7306f

Link to hollye's most excellent map