IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #24

[iamnotagolem]

Yes, but that doesn't mean he had to continue that way after snatching them, if that's what happened, and when.

It doesn't make sense that he would grab them and then drive to the lake to dump the bikes before he finished the rest of his business. It's too far out of the way. I can believe he went back when he was done to dispose of the bikes in a misleading way, but that he'd take that roundabout way through construction to get to the lake while he had the girls in the back seems to stretch credibility just a bit

Honestly we may never know which route the perp took. But the route Otto mapped is one of the most direct routes that avoids higher traffic areas, which include stop lights and signs. Forest river looks like a nice straight shot to get out of the area and fast without going back to Lafayette.

 

[Marilynilpa]

Maybe we can get Otto to plot all of her friends' houses on a map for us.

If anyone could find out who all of Lizzie's friends were, and plot it out on a map, it would be Otto.:rocker:

 

[Marilynilpa]

I know it has been asked whether Dan and/or Misty attended Lizzie's memorial. In case no one has replied, the answer is yes:

Lyric’s parents, Dan Morrissey and Misty Cook-Morrissey, and the girl’s older brother, Dillin, also attended the Thursday service.

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2012312130109

 

[SapphireSteel]

It's the "every night" comment that puzzles me. I can understand if Lizzie rode her bike there once in a while without Heather and/or Drew knowing about it, but every night?

Quote:

Elizabeth's mother, Heather Collins, said it's rare for her daughter to venture too far from home, but she may have been persuaded by her older cousin.

"We've talked about that before," Collins said "We've told them they're too young to go far."

http://www.themorningsun.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20120715/NEWS04/120719794&template=printart

Quote:

Heather Collins said the family has strict rules with Elizabeth about how far she is allowed to go and how often she has to check in.

"If she goes more than one block, she tells us and she calls us when she gets there and she calls us when she comes home," Collins said. "This is not like her normal thing."

http://abcnews.go.com/US/missing-io...ng-lake-search/story?id=16784357#.UM_lnG88CSo

With this in mind, could Lizzie have ridden that far every night without either parent knowing it?

That sentence=she does go more than one block, frequently enough to have an instruction to call home IF she does.

That doesn't sound like her being told to stay within one block, to me. She's allowed to travel, she just has to call when she gets there.

Kind of a contradiction to "strict rules" about how far she is allowed to travel.

Also, if she has to call her parents when she gets home, it means that THEY are not home, either when she leaves or when she returns.

So really, they probably have no idea where she is nor for how long, if they're both out at work and she is out on her bike.

:cow:

:waitasec:

 

[otto]

I agree. But I think it is possible that if someone was at Casey's or Dairy Queen and saw the girls, they may have followed in the same general direction.

Yes ... the girls rode their bikes in the parking lot in front of the old post office and past Loftys on Brovan. Someone could have driven W on Lafayette, turned South on River Front Road and intercepted them just W of the camera.

Whether abducting the girls at the lake, or leaving the bikes at the lake, the perp most likely was on Maiden Lane.

If they were abducted at the corner of Brovan and River Front Road, then their bikes were taken to Maiden Lane to throw police of his trail, buy himself some time and, as it turns out, delay a thorough investigation until the next day ... then another week for draining the lake.

 

[Marilynilpa]

It's been stated that it is likely or possible that someone told Lyric and Elizabeth something that would indicate that they could go to the lake. Who would they take as an authority figure enough to overrule Grandma?

Heather was at the doctor, Drew was at work, Misty was at work, Dan lived in a different town and was there with his mom.

Who could possibly override Grandma?

BBM

Here I go, being persnickety again, but Dan's mother was not at home during this time.

From Tammy Brousseau:

So when Misty had -- when they`d found the bikes and called us and told us, Misty was standing here with us, Misty immediately called Dan and Dan called his mother. She was at work. She took work off, and she hurried up and picked Dan and Dylan up and came down here and met us to start the search and all of that for the kids, yes.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1207/19/ng.01.html

BBM

 

[georger]

ETA: Here's a quote from Mrs. C:

“I broke down for the first time because I was so used to, especially Elizabeth, seeing her every night ride her bicycle and she always stopped and talked to people. She was a friendly little girl,” Marcella Carpenter said. “You know, it’s hard when you’ve got a grandchild the same age.”

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/ar...-missing-Iowa-girls-after-their-disappearance[/quote]


"she always stopped and talked to people. She was a friendly little girl,”

That could provide the introduction the perp needed.

 

[otto]

BBM

Here I go, being persnickety again, but Dan's mother was not at home during this time.

From Tammy Brousseau:

So when Misty had -- when they`d found the bikes and called us and told us, Misty was standing here with us, Misty immediately called Dan and Dan called his mother. She was at work. She took work off, and she hurried up and picked Dan and Dylan up and came down here and met us to start the search and all of that for the kids, yes.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1207/19/ng.01.html

BBM

It doesn't matter where she was since Dan is not a suspect - per investigators.

 

[Marilynilpa]

Given how reckless kids can sometimes be on their bikes, I have to
wonder if either girl's autopsy showed signed on an accident ? (with yours
above in mind). Evidently not since LE has not announced or implied
that ?

If one of the girls had accidentally been hurt, such as falling off of her bike, could the ME tell that? A broken arm or injured head, for example, could have occurred after abduction just as easily as during the abduction, assuming there was not much time in between abduction and death.

And even if the ME could tell, I doubt LE would make it public until time of trial, assuming there is one. JMO

 

[Just Pat 22]

Since the purse and bikes were at the lake drainage pipe, and it's rumored that the dogs went towards the water, or the trees near Maiden Lane (FBI: water, family: trees), isn't it possible that the dogs could have been tracking the bikes/purse to the Maiden Lane trail ... and isn't it possible that if a vehicle drove to the area to stage the bikes, that the dogs simply tracked towards Maiden Lane where the bike scent originated?

Hi Otto , just putting my 2 Cents in . Way back on the day the dogs were brought in the dogs picked up the girls scent and the dogs followed it towared the wooded area then they stoped and the dogs getting the scent and they were then taken towards lhe lake . I am not from Iowa but, from your great photos and if I am correct you even went there ? and you saw Tire tracks if I recall correctly . I could find the post maybe but I am going to have to use total recall but I believe with all my heart the girls were abducted right there by the woods and tire marks . God bring this to Justice we Pray . We have a great bunch of Sleuthers they are really helpful. It is well appreciated the thoughts all add in . HUgs To you All And Merry Christmass one an all. Pat

 

[Marilynilpa]

It doesn't matter where she was since Dan is not a suspect - per investigators.

And I certainly didn't mean to imply he was, otto - I was simply correcting a misstatement in another post that said Dan was at home with his mother. Facts are important, as I'm sure you agree.

 

[iamnotagolem]

That sentence=she does go more than one block, frequently enough to have an instruction to call home IF she does.

That doesn't sound like her being told to stay within one block, to me. She's allowed to travel, she just has to call when she gets there.

Kind of a contradiction to "strict rules" about how far she is allowed to travel.

Also, if she has to call her parents when she gets home, it means that THEY are not home, either when she leaves or when she returns.

So really, they probably have no idea where she is nor for how long, if they're both out at work and she is out on her bike.

:cow:

:waitasec:

I didn't take Heather's statement that way at all. I took it to say when they allow her to go more than one block she must call when she gets there. To me that sounds like they keep a close eye on her and dont just let her run around all over creation.

I seriously doubt that Heather and Drew let Elizabeth stay home by herself. I would imagine they allow her to go to her friends house when grandma is watching them, but she must call her parents and ask permission, then once she gets to her friends house she calls mom and lets her know. When she gets home from friends house she calls mom and lets her know.

If they were in the habit of letting Elizabeth stay home by herself I'm sure we would have heard by now how CPS was involved.

 

[otto]

ETA: Here's a quote from Mrs. C:

“I broke down for the first time because I was so used to, especially Elizabeth, seeing her every night ride her bicycle and she always stopped and talked to people. She was a friendly little girl,” Marcella Carpenter said. “You know, it’s hard when you’ve got a grandchild the same age.”

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/ar...-missing-Iowa-girls-after-their-disappearance


"she always stopped and talked to people. She was a friendly little girl,”

That could provide the introduction the perp needed.

I believe that there was a group of 2-3 girls that rode down Lake Avenue every night - until July 13. I believe that they rode to the end of the street, and then circled back, like they may have lived in the area. One of them stopped and talked with people on the street, including the lawn watering man.

For this to be true, Elizabeth would have had to have 30-40 minute absences each evening. That doesn't add up for me.

If the girl they saw was not Elizabeth, then we don't know that Elizabeth stopped and talked with complete strangers up and down the street more than a mile from home each night.

 

[Marilynilpa]

That sentence=she does go more than one block, frequently enough to have an instruction to call home IF she does.

That doesn't sound like her being told to stay within one block, to me. She's allowed to travel, she just has to call when she gets there.

Kind of a contradiction to "strict rules" about how far she is allowed to travel.

Also, if she has to call her parents when she gets home, it means that THEY are not home, either when she leaves or when she returns.

So really, they probably have no idea where she is nor for how long, if they're both out at work and she is out on her bike.

:cow:

:waitasec:

I agree with you, and I'm surprised I haven't paid attention to Heather's comment until now. It does seem to indicate Lizzie rode her bike when her parents weren't home, and the one block rule was not always enforced.

Maybe it has no bearing on the abduction and murders, but it's an inconsistency that makes me scratch my head a little.:waitasec:

ETA: Please note that I am not saying anything negative about Heather, just stating that her statement that Lizzie only rode her bike one block from home is apparently not correct.

 

[Just Pat 22]

Since the purse and bikes were at the lake drainage pipe, and it's rumored that the dogs went towards the water, or the trees near Maiden Lane (FBI: water, family: trees), isn't it possible that the dogs could have been tracking the bikes/purse to the Maiden Lane trail ... and isn't it possible that if a vehicle drove to the area to stage the bikes, that the dogs simply tracked towards Maiden Lane where the bike scent originated?

Hi Otto , just putting my 2 Cents in . Way back on the day the dogs were brought in the dogs picked up the girls scent and the dogs followed it towared the wooded area then they stoped and the dogs getting the scent and they were then taken towards lhe lake . I am not from Iowa but, from your great photos and if I am correct you even went there ? and you saw Tire tracks if I recall correctly . I could find the post maybe but I am going to have to use total recall but I believe with all my heart the girls were abducted right there by the woods and tire marks . God bring this to Justice we Pray . We have a great bunch of Sleuthers they are really helpful. It is well appreciated the thoughts all add in . HUgs To you All And Merry Christmass one an all. Pat

 

[Mjskit]

Yes ... the girls rode their bikes in the parking lot in front of the old post office and past Loftys on Brovan. Someone could have driven W on Lafayette, turned South on River Front Road and intercepted them just W of the camera.

Whether abducting the girls at the lake, or leaving the bikes at the lake, the perp most likely was on Maiden Lane.

If they were abducted at the corner of Brovan and River Front Road, then their bikes were taken to Maiden Lane to throw police of his trail, buy himself some time and, as it turns out, delay a thorough investigation until the next day ... then another week for draining the lake.

IMO It is like the perp knew that LE would search the lake. This person must know a lot about how LE works a case or he/she is very lucky. If it was just luck I think the bodies would have been found a lot sooner. IMO

 

[georger]

Two more quotes from the Des Moines Register article:

They wonder how many people were involved, whether they are from the area, and if they were familiar with Meyers Lake, where the girls disappeared, and Seven Bridges, where their bodies were discovered.

-

The two women [Wylma and Tammy] were helping Heather Collins decorate her house for Christmas when they were notified on Dec. 5 that they needed to meet with police about the discovery.

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2012312160054

BBM

I wonder if LE has confirmed to them that the girls did disappear from Meyers Lake, as opposed to some other location. To me, it sounds that way, but I can see that it may be open to interpretation.

Also, I wasn't aware that Wylma and Tammy were at Heather's house when they were notified on December 5th that they needed to meet with police.

If this is true and the facts are true, why wouldnt every news outlet in eastern Iowa have
broadcast these basic facts and repeated them over and over so the public would know?
KCRG for example!?

People's attention spans are very short. Not having basic facts makes it impossible for the
public to help even if they could. That gives any perp a HUGE advantage.

 

[Marilynilpa]

I didn't take Heather's statement that way at all. I took it to say when they allow her to go more than one block she must call when she gets there. To me that sounds like they keep a close eye on her and dont just let her run around all over creation.

I seriously doubt that Heather and Drew let Elizabeth stay home by herself. I would imagine they allow her to go to her friends house when grandma is watching them, but she must call her parents and ask permission, then once she gets to her friends house she calls mom and lets her know. When she gets home from friends house she calls mom and lets her know.

If they were in the habit of letting Elizabeth stay home by herself I'm sure we would have heard by now how CPS was involved.

I certainly don't think Heather and Drew were negligent parents, so why would CPS be involved? Who said Elizabeth stayed home by herself?

I raised the question about Lizzie's biking habits because if she DID ride further than one block often enough for her parents to have rules for her to follow, then it would be interesting to know where she went, how often she was allowed to do so, and the route she took to get there. IMO that could provide other possibilities as to where a person with bad intents might have seen her prior to July 13th. JMO

ETA: I realize this post wasn't directed to me, I more or less just jumped off of it.

 

[otto]

IMO It is like the perp knew that LE would search the lake. This person must know a lot about how LE works a case or he/she is very lucky. If it was just luck I think the bodies would have been found a lot sooner. IMO

If he grabbed them at the corner of Brovan and River Forest Road, and drove to Maiden Lane to leave the bikes next to the unlocked gate at the drainage pipe, then it's likely he walked along the lake edge, put the bikes on the trail side of the gate, left Elizabeth's purse on a rock next to the water and drove to 7 Bridge Park with the girls. He went home later that night.

By leaving the bikes on the trail, the first assumption was that they were lost in the area ... thus the thousand people searching the area that weekend. Then it was clear that they were not lost in the woods. The perp wouldn't have known that the lake would be drained, but it wasn't the first time it had been drained. Leaving the purse on the lake side opened the possibility of a drowning. It was a clever place to put the bikes in terms of delaying discovery of the bodies and the perp.

 

[Marilynilpa]

If this is true and the facts are true, why wouldnt every news outlet in eastern Iowa have broadcast these basic facts? KCRG for example!?

Well, it was true enough for a major newspaper to print it, and I've seen no retraction by the Des Moines Register.

As to where that info came from, who knows, but I figured Aunt Tammy was truthful when she said LE told the family this. I believe the family knows quite a bit about what happened to the girls, and when, that LE doesn't feel they need to share with us. JMO

Right now, I don't think LE is too concerned about whether or not we, the public, have all the information. They are focused on trying to solve this terrible crime, not asking the public to help them do it (other than asking for tips). After all, as invested as most of us are in the case, we aren't LE or FBI and the likelihood that any snippet of info from LE would enable us to solve this crime are negligible, IMO.