IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #24

[24Roses]

I am so relieved to see that Heather Collins will be having that, IMO, much needed surgery on Friday at Mayo Clinic.
http://www.kwwl.com/story/20358289/2012/12/16/elizabeth-collins-mother-to-undergo-surgery-friday

I'm 2 days behind on reading, so I'm sorry if this has already been mentioned. When they reported on the news yesterday about Heather's surgery, they also said there was no no info. from LE. However, they did say that the Des Moines Register had reported that an aunt told the newspaper that LE told the family that the girls were killed shortly after they disappeared.:cry: I have not read this info. myself on the DMR website.

 

[otto]

I was firmly believing the girls were abducted where the bikes were found. After looking at the maps and reading some of the posts I now am leaning towards them meeting up with someone and willingly loading up their bikes. Of course after they got in everything changed and the bikes were dumped. Someone bribed them to go.
Some of the comments that changed my mind were that they were riding fairly fast and the one comment about them appearing to be on a mission. Also they did not have time to ride there before Grandma"s appt.

I don't think that the video is a continuous tape. I think it has a few second delay between capturing images, so when I've viewed the tape I haven't been able to gauge how fast the children are moving.

 

[iamnotagolem]

It's interesting to see the Casey stores mapped out, because the three make a loop on a fairly major road and then it's straight north to where the children were found. Is the delivery truch a 5T truck or a van? Would a 5T truck be noticed on 270 Street travelling towards 7 Bridges Park?

If my scenario of him hitting Fairbank after evansdale is correct the he likely took 281 N, then Tuscon North to 270 st. He would have only passed 3 houses off his usual path.

I don't know if that would have raised any red flags or not. Middle of the afternoon, maybe no one saw him.

 

[otto]

I'm 2 days behind on reading, so I'm sorry if this has already been mentioned. When they reported on the news yesterday about Heather's surgery, they also said there was no no info. from LE. However, they did say that the Des Moines Register had reported that an aunt told the newspaper that LE told the family that the girls were killed shortly after they disappeared.:cry: I have not read this info. myself on the DMR website.

Thanks. It was also posted earlier today that Heather had referred to the remains as bones.

 

[SapphireSteel]

This brings to mind the movie Cousin Vinnie where the witness swears they saw the car or the guys. Only they didn't have their glasses on. Maybe Mr C was mistaking Elizabeth for someone else??? Or someone else for Elizabeth.

One or other witness, I can buy being wrong or mistaken.

Two sightings independent of each other, I have to take more seriously.

 

[Squeeze]

We cannot assume that Elizabeth made a habit of riding quite far. The lawn watering man and his wife claim that they saw Elizabeth every evening riding on Lake Avenue and visiting with the people on that street. This street is more than a mile from where Elizabeth lived. If this was true, her parents would have confirmed that Elizabeth left on bike for more than 30 minutes on a daily basis.

Every child is different, and I don't think that we have heard that Elizabeth was particularly interested in secrets and mysteries. In fact, I had the opposite impression. Heather said that each evening she and Elizabeth shared a bowl of ice cream together. It sounds like they were very close, not full of secrets.

Thank you OTTO!!!! This whole scenario is so out of sync with everything else we know as fact. Like ive said before, I think Elizabeth was kept on a short leash.

 

[Mjskit]

It looks like a vehicle would leave impressions in the grass and surrounding trees.

Ollipop took pictures of tire tracks.

 

[iamnotagolem]

Maybe Lyric encouraged Lizzie.

IIRC it was Lyric who'd disappeared with another older cousin, shortly before this incident, but they turned up.

What would inspire Lyric to go to the lake and be late getting back, after getting in trouble for the same thing only days before? They knew Grandma was leaving and taking Lyric with her, why would she piss grandma off?

If they wanted to go to the lake why did they wait until 12:15 to go?

 

[iamnotagolem]

One or other witness, I can buy being wrong or mistaken.

Two sightings independent of each other, I have to take more seriously.

My brain is fried, what other sighting do we have of the girls?

 

[otto]

If my scenario of him hitting Fairbank after evansdale is correct the he likely took 281 N, then Tuscon North to 270 st. He would have only passed 3 houses off his usual path.

I don't know if that would have raised any red flags or not. Middle of the afternoon, maybe no one saw him.

I think that's quite possible.

 

[Squeeze]

I'm 2 days behind on reading, so I'm sorry if this has already been mentioned. When they reported on the news yesterday about Heather's surgery, they also said there was no no info. from LE. However, they did say that the Des Moines Register had reported that an aunt told the newspaper that LE told the family that the girls were killed shortly after they disappeared.:cry: I have not read this info. myself on the DMR website.

A poster on this board overheard a reporter say that while "practicing " for the camera. But I don't remember hearing that on the news. Maybe its kcrg. I watch kwwl.

 

[otto]

One or other witness, I can buy being wrong or mistaken.

Two sightings independent of each other, I have to take more seriously.

Which two sightings are you referring to?

 

[Squeeze]

A poster on this board overheard a reporter say that while "practicing " for the camera. But I don't remember hearing that on the news. Maybe its kcrg. I watch kwwl.

....outside of Elizabeth's service.

 

[SoBeCzar]

Ollipop took pictures of tire tracks.

It just occurred to me family and LE could have driven over the tire tracks. Maybe something was salvaged.

 

[Marilynilpa]

The lawn watering man's wife is the one that said a young girl rode her bike there every evening and visited with people on the street.

"“I broke down for the first time because I was so used to, especially Elizabeth, seeing her every night ride her bicycle and she always stopped and talked to people. She was a friendly little girl,” Marcella Carpenter said. “You know, it’s hard when you’ve got a grandchild the same age.”

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/ar...-missing-Iowa-girls-after-their-disappearance

It's the "every night" comment that puzzles me. I can understand if Lizzie rode her bike there once in a while without Heather and/or Drew knowing about it, but every night?

Quote:

Elizabeth's mother, Heather Collins, said it's rare for her daughter to venture too far from home, but she may have been persuaded by her older cousin.

"We've talked about that before," Collins said "We've told them they're too young to go far."

http://www.themorningsun.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20120715/NEWS04/120719794&template=printart

Quote:

Heather Collins said the family has strict rules with Elizabeth about how far she is allowed to go and how often she has to check in.

"If she goes more than one block, she tells us and she calls us when she gets there and she calls us when she comes home," Collins said. "This is not like her normal thing."

http://abcnews.go.com/US/missing-io...ng-lake-search/story?id=16784357#.UM_lnG88CSo

With this in mind, could Lizzie have ridden that far every night without either parent knowing it?

 

[iamnotagolem]

It's been stated that it is likely or possible that someone told Lyric and Elizabeth something that would indicate that they could go to the lake. Who would they take as an authority figure enough to overrule Grandma?

Heather was at the doctor, Drew was at work, Misty was at work, Dan lived in a different town and was there with his mom.

Who could possibly override Grandma?

 

[Squeeze]

But Mr. C said Lizzie stopped and talked to people along the way, IIRC. So that makes it more likely, IMO, that he would have recognized her.

ETA: Here's a quote from Mrs. C:

“I broke down for the first time because I was so used to, especially Elizabeth, seeing her every night ride her bicycle and she always stopped and talked to people. She was a friendly little girl,” Marcella Carpenter said. “You know, it’s hard when you’ve got a grandchild the same age.”

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/ar...-missing-Iowa-girls-after-their-disappearance

Did she ever stop and talk to any other neighbors?

 

[iamnotagolem]

It's the "every night" comment that puzzles me. I can understand if Lizzie rode her bike there once in a while without Heather and/or Drew knowing about it, but every night?

Quote:

Elizabeth's mother, Heather Collins, said it's rare for her daughter to venture too far from home, but she may have been persuaded by her older cousin.

"We've talked about that before," Collins said "We've told them they're too young to go far."

http://www.themorningsun.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20120715/NEWS04/120719794&template=printart

Quote:

Heather Collins said the family has strict rules with Elizabeth about how far she is allowed to go and how often she has to check in.

"If she goes more than one block, she tells us and she calls us when she gets there and she calls us when she comes home," Collins said. "This is not like her normal thing."

http://abcnews.go.com/US/missing-io...ng-lake-search/story?id=16784357#.UM_lnG88CSo

With this in mind, would Lizzie have ridden that far every night without either parent knowing it?

I would say no.

I was a good kid and so I would say never in a million years. So I asked my husband who got in quite a bit of trouble as a child, especially between the ages of 8-10 and asked him. He said there is no way he would go further than allowed, he would get in trouble.

If they were allowed to ride within a short area, why risk that little bit of freedom by going a mile away? Not just going 5-6 blocks or going a bit beyond where they were allowed, but going 1 mile away to somewhere they had previously requested and been forbidden to go?

 

[24Roses]

A poster on this board overheard a reporter say that while "practicing " for the camera. But I don't remember hearing that on the news. Maybe its kcrg. I watch kwwl.

I heard it on the KWWL news at 5:00 on Sunday evening.

 

[Squeeze]

I think so. Wilma said that they rode their bikes around the "loop" and that she kept an eye on them. They were riding away from the house towards River Forest Road when they were last seen on video.

I'm trying to understand the route that may have been taken by the perp if he abducted the girls within a block of the house ... not sure how this will work out ... it's difficult to squish the maps down to a size that doesn't blow margins

Again, not possible for the perp to go that way. The on ramp to 20 was closed for con struction. He most likely would have gone to dubuque road, or all the way east on Gilbert to elk run road.