IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #24

[Marilynilpa]

I agree! Until now I believed the girls more than likely had been abducted to the lake. Unless someone comes forward and positively says they saw the girls at Meyers Lake at such and such time, I believe it is just as likely the lake scene was staged as SS stated much earlier in the investigation. Staging indicates to me it could be a seasoned predator/executioner.

BBM

Or maybe someone who had planned this out to the last detail? Not necessarily a seasoned predator, perhaps just someone who had thought about it a lot.

 

[SoBeCzar]

Is the part of the lake the bikes were found in a secluded spot? I mean if a person went there how often would they see anyone else around? Also I wonder if Lyric and Elizabeth's friends were questioned about it being an occasional meeting place.
When I was a kid there was a public park my friends and I would go to, and even though it was a public area, we only ran into one or two other people. Could easily have been snatched without a witness. I was one of those kids that rode my bike for miles regardless of any boundaries being set. It wasn't to defy the rules. I just ended up doing it without thinking.
I do think Grandma having an appt would have stopped the girls from riding far unless they had arranged a meeting and thought they could dash there, meet up and get back in a short period.

 

[nikb]

I would take Mr C's statement with a grain of salt. I don't think he is lying, I don't think he means any harm, but I wonder if it was really Elizabeth.

Last weekend we were at an event and an older gentlemen approached us, shook my husband's hand said how good it was to see us again and he couldn't believe how much the kids had grown. As soon as he walked away I asked my husband who that was, he had never met him before.

Mistaken identity is pretty easy, especially with little girls in the summer. I don't doubt that Elizabeth had ridden down to the lake once before with her neighbor friends, as I believe it was Aunt Tammy said. But I don't believe she rode down there every day, her parents and grandma would know that. A one time ride that aunt Tammy gave her permission to do, would explain why Tammy knew that Elizabeth had been down there before but the rest of the family didn't.

Jmo, IMO, moo all that

BBM I completely agree. I think Mr. C. did see a girl that looked like her, or maybe it even was her on a different day.

I recall hearing a friend say that if you're ever in doubt on if you know someone but positive they have kids, remark on how the kids have grown... if you're not sure, ask, 'have you been working out? you look great!' - surefire phrases that'll be fine to even a complete stranger.

Just a quick personal antecdote we had one of my husband's friends over for a BBQ, visiting from far away after he'd moved several years ago, so we tried to invite everyone he (visiting friend) might've known. One local guy swore he did know the visiting friend. He was even attempting to join in with the "remember when?" story-telling amongst the guys. My husband and local-friend's wife kept insisting they didn't think these guys would've known each other but "apparently they did?" (with a puzzled look on their faces; my fault, I was going through the list of "long time friends" and had local friend on the list, but apparently they ran in different circles). After the BBQ our local friend admitted he had no clue who the guy visiting was, and visiting friend had no clue who the local friend was. It's kind of hilarious to look at the photos of them smiling and with arms around each others' shoulders.

Anyway back to this case, I think it'd be SO easy for Mr. C. to either have seen Elizabeth regularly on her bike, or just as likely he was seeing two somewhat similar looking/acting young girls riding by his house regularly, and he thought for sure he saw Elizabeth and Lyric that day. I keep wondering if it was the neighbor girls who went to the lake fairly often.

 

[Marilynilpa]

Is the part of the lake the bikes were found in a secluded spot? I mean if a person went there how often would they see anyone else around? Also I wonder if Lyric and Elizabeth's friends were questioned about it being an occasional meeting place.
When I was a kid there was a public park my friends and I would go to, and even though it was a public area, we only ran into one or two other people. Could easily have been snatched without a witness. I was one of those kids that rode my bike for miles regardless of any boundaries being set. It wasn't to defy the rules. I just ended up doing it without thinking.
I do think Grandma having an appt would have stopped the girls from riding far unless they had arranged a meeting and thought they could dash there, meet up and get back in a short period.

The bikes were found in a relatively secluded spot. Many of us feel this means the perp was local, since a non-local would not have found this spot easily.

 

[chelsea6]

Now that I know how to download pictures from my Android, while I'm at Fareway getting groceries I'll take pictures of where the employees take smoke breaks, and also different angles from street of in front of vacant post office, etc. I know it will give everyone a clearer picture in their minds. :seeya:

 

[SoBeCzar]

The bikes were found in a relatively secluded spot. Many of us feel this means the perp was local, since a non-local would not have found this spot easily.

I think it is a local also. An out of towner is not likely to have been in that area and/or just happen upon the woods where the bodies were found.
I'd be worried if I lived in that area.
I don't think this is going to be a young killer like Jessica Ridgeways killer. When he dumped the body so close to where she was abducted, I felt he was young and possibly still living at home with not much time to get rid of the body.
I think this killer is probably at least 30. He is old enough to have a vehicle and not have time restrictions other than maybe a job. He may even be single. Easier not to have a wife and kids wondering where you are going. Probably has a hard time keeping a relationship anyway.

 

[SoBeCzar]

Now that I know how to download pictures from my Android, while I'm at Fareway getting groceries I'll take pictures of where the employees take smoke breaks, and also different angles from street of in front of vacant post office, etc. I know it will give everyone a clearer picture in their minds. :seeya:

Is there a factory in the area? Or some place that laid workers off during the summer? I'm wondering if the killer may drive to the area for work but live a few miles out of town. A factory usually has workers from a larger area than say, a store. And a lay off might stress someone out.

 

[chelsea6]

I think it is a local also. An out of towner is not likely to have been in that area and/or just happen upon the woods where the bodies were found.
I'd be worried if I lived in that area.
I don't think this is going to be a young killer like Jessica Ridgeways killer. When he dumped the body so close to where she was abducted, I felt he was young and possibly still living at home with not much time to get rid of the body. I think this killer is probably at least 30. He is old enough to have a vehicle and not have time restrictions other than maybe a job. He may even be single. Easier not to have a wife and kids wondering where you are going. Probably has a hard time keeping a relationship anyway.

The bodys were found at 7 bridges, near Readlyn miles away from Evansdale. I don't understand. :waitasec:

 

[otto]

Now that I know how to download pictures from my Android, while I'm at Fareway getting groceries I'll take pictures of where the employees take smoke breaks, and also different angles from street of in front of vacant post office, etc. I know it will give everyone a clearer picture in their minds. :seeya:

Thank you so much for the local photos! They are very much appreciated. It's difficult to get a clear understanding of the area from a map, but a map is better than nothing. Your photos add one more dimension to what may have happened.

 

[SoBeCzar]

The bodys were found at 7 bridges, near Readlyn miles away from Evansdale. I don't understand. :waitasec:

lol I was refering to Jessica Ridgeways killer in that sentence. Sry. I see how it was confusing.

 

[otto]

The bodys were found at 7 bridges, near Readlyn miles away from Evansdale. I don't understand. :waitasec:

The reference was to the Jessica Ridgeway case. Austin Sigg, a 17 year old, abducted and murdered 10 year old Jessica Ridgeway. He took her back to his mother's home, where she was assaulted and murdered. Then he put her backpack north of where he lived and her body south of where he lived. His victim was left fairly close to his home.

 

[otto]

Is there a factory in the area? Or some place that laid workers off during the summer? I'm wondering if the killer may drive to the area for work but live a few miles out of town. A factory usually has workers from a larger area than say, a store. And a lay off might stress someone out.

Could it perhaps be someone that had a quieter day on one of the acreages between Evansdale and 7 Brdiges?

 

[otto]

Never did this before.. see if it works. A picture from last night of back of Casey's, possible location where gate is open. View attachment 28630

Is that the Casey's on Lafayette across from the shopping center?

 

[otto]

Now alley behind Lofty's View attachment 28632

Looking at maps, it's always been a bit difficult to know if Loftys opens to the alley near the Cornbelt Auction ... or does it open onto Lafayette and the back of it is on the alley (Brovan) near the Auction?

 

[SoBeCzar]

One other thought I was wondering about. The bodies weren't buried. They say killers go back to the bodies sometimes. If this guy did, wouldn't he have decided to bury them with all the publicity this case has? Did he really think no one would find them or did like going back to see them? I know many killers do not bury the bodies but I think this killer didn't feel guilt over what he had done. If it were someone that knew them I am sure they would have returned to bury them. That is a lot of guilt to have thinking about them just laying out there.

 

[otto]

I think it is a local also. An out of towner is not likely to have been in that area and/or just happen upon the woods where the bodies were found.
I'd be worried if I lived in that area.
I don't think this is going to be a young killer like Jessica Ridgeways killer. When he dumped the body so close to where she was abducted, I felt he was young and possibly still living at home with not much time to get rid of the body.
I think this killer is probably at least 30. He is old enough to have a vehicle and not have time restrictions other than maybe a job. He may even be single. Easier not to have a wife and kids wondering where you are going. Probably has a hard time keeping a relationship anyway.

I've been fairly convinced from early on that this was someone local ... but that conclusion was made because of Maiden Lane.

Whether the bikes were staged or the girls were abducted at the drainage pipe gate at Meyers Lake, I've always believed that the perp accessed the area via Maiden Lane. It is perfectly secluded and no one would notice anything happening at a vehicle that was part way down that lane. That suggested to me that it was someone local. Now, with the bodies being found at another secluded Park that would be known by locals, it re-inforces my belief that it is someone local.

I looked at maps of the area over the decades (thanks to Ollipop for finding the historic maps) a few months ago. The area appeared to be a party spot until the last decade, so someone in their 30s would have known about Maiden Lane as a party spot. Even Wylma knew about Maiden Lane.

The freeway went through in the 1980s, so that probably put an end to the partying ... perhaps it's someone older that 30, or someone that heard about the party spot from family. Here are 1970 and 1980 aerials

1980s

1970s (no freeway)

 

[SapphireSteel]

One other thought I was wondering about. The bodies weren't buried. They say killers go back to the bodies sometimes. If this guy did, wouldn't he have decided to bury them with all the publicity this case has? Did he really think no one would find them or did like going back to see them? I know many killers do not bury the bodies but I think this killer didn't feel guilt over what he had done. If it were someone that knew them I am sure they would have returned to bury them. That is a lot of guilt to have thinking about them just laying out there.

Not if the police are stalking their every move.

 

[Marilynilpa]

One other thought I was wondering about. The bodies weren't buried. They say killers go back to the bodies sometimes. If this guy did, wouldn't he have decided to bury them with all the publicity this case has? Did he really think no one would find them or did like going back to see them? I know many killers do not bury the bodies but I think this killer didn't feel guilt over what he had done. If it were someone that knew them I am sure they would have returned to bury them. That is a lot of guilt to have thinking about them just laying out there.

At this point we don't know whether the bodies were buried, covered up or left out in the open.

I agree that sometimes killers do return to their victims. Ted Bundy and the Green River Killer are both known to have done this, and I'm sure there are countless other examples. Of course, we don't know how long the bodies were at Seven Bridges - it could have been since July 13th, or it could have been the day before they were found. It's possible to read between the lines and make certain assumptions, but LE hasn't (and probably won't) tell us that info.

As far as the killer is concerned, whether he knew the girls or not, I don't think he had the least bit of remorse or guilt. JMO.

 

[otto]

The weirdest thing happened in the last day. Until today, I could not view any images that were posted. They always appeared as a link. Suddenly today, I can view the images in the thread. I wonder if the admins changed a setting or something ... because I didn't change anything.

 

[chelsea6]

Is there a factory in the area? Or some place that laid workers off during the summer? I'm wondering if the killer may drive to the area for work but live a few miles out of town. A factory usually has workers from a larger area than say, a store. And a lay off might stress someone out.

A lot of Tyson workers come through, it's on the way out of Waterloo.