IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #25

[Bootsctr]

The jogger's name was never in the news, so in some ways he has been forgotten ... but I believe that he was the first person to see the bikes at the gate at 2:00 PM. The bikes were later found by police at the same location. The cyclist's statement about bikes lying on the path (not at the gate) at 12:27 has never been verified or mentioned by police.

Did Deputy Abben deny he knew anything about a jogger or the cyclist? I mean that man was keeping everything close to the investigation. Would not even tell how the bikes were found. Tight-lipped. Of course, loose lips sink ships.

 

[Bootsctr]

In case the Craigs List Poet ((KD)) poems are flagged
this is the same poem on craigs list
waterloo craigslist > personals > rants & raves
please flag with care: [?]
miscategorized


soulless



this is also the same poem on Deep Underground Poets.http://deepundergroundpoetry.com/poems-by/Kingdom-darkness/

scroll down to # 7 on the right side.....

I don't know if this guy has anything to do with the case or not, but his poems certainly warrant LE talking to him.

 

[otto]

I think it is quite likely the girls could have caught someone's eye/ear asking for directions and taken someone up on an offer to ride to Meyers Lake. Maybe even let them get their bikes out and then turned on them ?

There is no information that the girls ever asked anyone for directions. Some social media websites have discussed this theory, but police have not said that the children were in the area of the Fareway store at any time.

If the girls had been in that particular location, even as "information" rather than fact (like the 12:23 report), then polce would be asking the public for information about the children in that location (like they've asked for information about Elmer/Gilbert/Arbutus).

 

[otto]

Interesting about the bikes being found at 2:00.

And one man stepped forward and said, "Yes, I seen them going east on the bike trail at about 2:30." Now, whether he`s telling the truth or not, they do have this man`s name. You know, I don`t know. Whether he`s a person of interest, I don`t know.

http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1207/16/ijvm.01.html

I guess he was telling the truth since 2:00 has been given as one of the official times released by police. The bikes were first seen at that time by a jogger; "runner". That time isn't mentioned now by police, most likely because it doesn't help in knowing how the girls bikes got to the lake.

I guess that narrows the timeline of the bikes from 12:15 - 2:00 ... girls too ... I think that they were long gone by 2:00.

 

[Bootsctr]

The jogger's name was never in the news, so in some ways he has been forgotten ... but I believe that he was the first person to see the bikes at the gate at 2:00 PM. The bikes were later found by police at the same location. The cyclist's statement about bikes lying on the path (not at the gate) at 12:27 has never been verified or mentioned by police.

I promise you if there is one thing I have learned in this case is that if I ever witness anything suspect and need to tell LE, I will never talk to the media afterwards. It drives me nuts thinking the cyclist's statement has never been verified. It makes me believe he has never been cleared by LE.

 

[otto]

Perhaps an errand for a relative beyond the Collins' household ? that would make it seem alright to leave the area w/o asking grandma's permission ? Again, simply speculating.

After the girls were abducted, and after their bodies were found, police interviewed the same family, friends and registered sex offenders. They have never mentioned pursuing drugs users, drug dealers, drug manufacturers, gang ties, or other violent crime in relation to the murdered children ... just the usual family and friends, plus sex offenders. That suggests that police believe this may be a sex crime. I don't think that there was any drug delivery going on between Lyric and a druggie, or Elizabeth and a druggie. There's no evidence to suggest that it is even a remote possibility.

 

[otto]

Did Deputy Abben deny he knew anything about a jogger or the cyclist? I mean that man was keeping everything close to the investigation. Would not even tell how the bikes were found. Tight-lipped. Of course, loose lips sink ships.

Abben denied knowing about the cyclist a few days after it was reported in the news. The jogger's time was included in official documents a few months ago. It has been removed from some sites, but the link I posted upthread still works.

 

[Snowbunny]

The jogger's name was never in the news, so in some ways he has been forgotten ... but I believe that he was the first person to see the bikes at the gate at 2:00 PM. The bikes were later found by police at the same location. The cyclist's statement about bikes lying on the path (not at the gate) at 12:27 has never been verified or mentioned by police.

I thought that the bikes were found by some guy who usually rides his bike on the trail?

 

[otto]

I promise you if there is one thing I have learned in this case is that if I ever witness anything suspect and need to tell LE, I will never talk to the media afterwards. It drives me nuts thinking the cyclist's statement has never been verified. It makes me believe he has never been cleared by LE.

I think that's true. We spent weeks, if not months, trying to twist the cyclist's statement into the timeline of the video and the earliest time that he could have seen two bikes lying on the trail (I believe it was East of the gate but still between the double fences). It just doesn't work.

 

[Marilynilpa]

I thought that the bikes were found by some guy who usually rides his bike on the trail?

That's something we have talked about a lot - a biker said he swerved to avoid two bikes on the trail. But it has never been confirmed that the bikes he saw belonged to Lyric and Lizzie, and his sighting has never been included in any LE timeline.

 

[Snowbunny]

Do we know who maintains the grounds and facilities at Meyers Lake? If so, do we know if those people have ever been checked out. At least around here they like to hire college students to help with park maintenance. Also how far from where the girls' bikes were is the camp ground? I still remember Adair talking about two young guys that were higher than a kite taking their bikes apart in the campground at midnight.

 

[otto]

I thought that the bikes were found by some guy who usually rides his bike on the trail?

Police found the bikes at 3:58 PM while searching for the girls. There is a confirmed sighting of the bikes at the gate at 2:00 by a "runner"/jogger. There is a cyclist that claims to have seen two bikes lying on the trail no later than 12:27 PM and he swerved around them. The problem with that is that the video captured the girls at about 12:08 ... something like that ... and it is 11 minutes slow ... so the real time was about 12:19. The cyclist was at the parking lot near the dock using the washroom at 12:28 - when he also used his phone. That means that the girls had to get from the video at about 12:19 to the SE tip of Meyers Lake in 8 minutes or less.

Police have information that the girls were at Brovan at 12:23 and at Elmer/Gilber/Arbutus at 12:30-1:00. Add it all up ... and it seems that police have excluded the cyclist's tip. The bikes he saw were at a different location, and he may have had the wrong colors for the bikes ... don't know, but something was wrong about his information.

 

[Snowbunny]

Police found the bikes at 3:58 PM while searching for the girls. There is a confirmed sighting of the bikes at the gate at 2:00 by a "runner"/jogger. There is a cyclist that claims to have seen two bikes lying on the trail no later than 12:27 PM and he swerved around them. The problem with that is that the video captured the girls at about 12:08 ... something like that ... and it is 11 minutes slow ... so the real time was about 12:19. The cyclist was at the parking lot near the dock using the washroom at 12:28 - when he also used his phone. That means that the girls had to get from the video at about 12:19 to the SE tip of Meyers Lake in 8 minutes or less.

Police have information that the girls were at Brovan at 12:23 and at Elmer/Gilber/Arbutus at 12:30-1:00. Add it all up ... and it seems that police have excluded the cyclist's tip. The bikes he saw were at a different location, and he may have had the wrong colors for the bikes ... don't know, but something was wrong about his information.

It sounds to me like the cyclist didn't get something right or LE would have included his sighting in their report.

 

[iamnotagolem]

I'm going back and reading all the posts starting with the first thread. I like to do this on cases that are going nowhere to see if there is anything that I missed.

I'm still on thread one, but I must say....the more we know, the less any of it makes sense.

 

[otto]

I'm going back and reading all the posts starting with the first thread. I like to do this on cases that are going nowhere to see if there is anything that I missed.

I'm still on thread one, but I must say....the more we know, the less any of it makes sense.

Looking forward to your thoughts!

You'll find that some of the linked content has been removed and other link content has been updated such that the quote in the comment no longer appears in the article.

 

[Sere-nity]

Police found the bikes at 3:58 PM while searching for the girls. There is a confirmed sighting of the bikes at the gate at 2:00 by a "runner"/jogger. There is a cyclist that claims to have seen two bikes lying on the trail no later than 12:27 PM and he swerved around them. The problem with that is that the video captured the girls at about 12:08 ... something like that ... and it is 11 minutes slow ... so the real time was about 12:19. The cyclist was at the parking lot near the dock using the washroom at 12:28 - when he also used his phone. That means that the girls had to get from the video at about 12:19 to the SE tip of Meyers Lake in 8 minutes or less.

Police have information that the girls were at Brovan at 12:23 and at Elmer/Gilber/Arbutus at 12:30-1:00. Add it all up ... and it seems that police have excluded the cyclist's tip. The bikes he saw were at a different location, and he may have had the wrong colors for the bikes ... don't know, but something was wrong about his information.

They were very close to the same place at the same time.

 

[Snowbunny]

I often wondered if the perp(s) were staying in the campground. A lot of people bring bikes with them camping. Its too bad if LE didn't get a good description of the bikes the cyclist saw on the trail. The two characters that Adair stated she saw at midnight the evening of the abduction hadn't been at their campsite until midnight. I take it their stuff was there but they didn't show up on the scene until midnight. I wonder where those two characters had been prior? By the time they did show up they were higher than a kite, loud and taking their bikes apart. Strange if you ask me.

 

[daisynae]

I thought that the bikes were found by some guy who usually rides his bike on the trail?

Ted Gameringer was riding his bike and swerved to get around the bikes
He said he did not talk to thepolice until monday afternoon.

 

[otto]

It sounds to me like the cyclist didn't get something right or LE would have included his sighting in their report.

That's right. We know that the children were last seen on Brovan at 12:15 and their bikes were at the drainage gate at 2:00. There is information that the girls were on Brovan until 12:23 and on Gilbert between Elmer and Arbutus between 12:30 and 1:00. I think those are the only times we know.

We can exclude the cyclist, and I think we can also exclude the social media theory about a sighting at the Fareway store. If there was a Fareway store sighting, police would also be asking for witnesses from that location ... and they are not.

 

[Snowbunny]

Ted Gameringer was riding his bike and swerved to get around the bikes
He said he did not talk to thepolice until monday afternoon.

I understand what you are saying but I wonder if he got a look at the color of the bikes he swerved to avoid hitting.