IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #28

[threecrazykids]

Yes I agree, I think he took them to his house, everything just seemed convenient for him IMO. Think he may have been following them, he may have watched them ride their bikes before. It is strange that the purse was left but the purse was not hanging on her bike or near her bike, maybe one mentioned to the other to "call your mom" and the killer grabbed the purse and threw it over the fence. He may have used threats to get them to go with him, if I were a kid, I know if someone threatened someone I cared deeply for I would do what that person said.

I don't think the call could have been made to home, but it could have called 911. Maybe the perp told them to drop the purse and leave it there.

 

[cindersoot]

I think the purse is a clue to what direction the girls went. Maiden lane, where the brush and trees are thick and very secluded from view.

 

[cindersoot]

The way the purse was described as just set down, seems like they thought they would be right back. You would sit your purse down so that both your hands are available. Available for what? I always thought the perp said to the girls, " come over here, look what I have".

 

[alliemay]

I don't think the call could have been made to home, but it could have called 911. Maybe the perp told them to drop the purse and leave it there.

He probably did tell them that, I knew the phone was not a working phone but I was just thinking if I was a kid and confronted with this I'd say something like "call your mom" to make the attacker think my phone was real. Just thinking maybe the killer was not aware that the phone was only used to play games on, that's if he didn't know the girls. Yeah I know, thinking way to much it to it....but maybe its just me feeling that there will be a break in the case.

 

[carbuff]

The ONLY thing that makes me think that the girls did NOT know their perp was the fact that the purse was left behind. The bikes being at the lake would be enough for someone to think they would have possibly drowned.

That said, I guess adding the "left behind" purse also feeds a possible staged scene that they were abducted, because (like me) people would assume she would take her purse with her if it wasn't a quick abduction.

I don't think this crime would take too long at all if it was planned out from start to finish from the get go. Literally less than 2 hours. If someone had an afternoon off could easily have done this...job or not. However, would it throw up a red flag for someone to take a Friday afternoon off in the middle of summer? Probably not.

There are two things I just struggle with trying to understand with the whole abduction itself and any possible perps:

1. I just can't wrap my head around the fact that if the girls DID INDEED scream, kick, fight, and scratch, like they'd been taught how did NO ONE hear or see anything? This in turn, leads people to assume this person was known to them, and they went willingly.

2. Someone, somewhere had to have seen SOMETHING. Something has to be askew somewhere and this person who has an idea isn't talking, for whatever reason. Is it a family man whose wife KNOWS he took the afternoon off? Someone who is completely off the radar? Is it someone who is well known in this family who everyone thinks "oh my God, how DARE you even SUGGEST this person could do this?!!" Is it someone who this is their first offense and just got lucky?

I mean really, if this is someone's first offense...never been charged or convicted of any other crime, and abducted these two girls on a whim and has ZERO connection to these girls; the chances of actually finding out who did this is next to impossible...especially if the perp is "such a great family guy". 9 times out of 10 even if the wife DID know, she isn't going to talk...for fear of her own life (assuming it IS a man).

I am not sold on the drug connection. I personally feel if they were killed to send a message they would have done it right on their front lawn. No reason to take and hide them in a park 30 mins away. This perp did NOT want them found right away, for whatever reason. I am of the belief that 7 bridges was nothing but a dumping ground. I think this person took them somewhere else and killed them, and then took them there under the cover of night and dumped them. I don't think they went straight from Evansdale to the park. JMO of course.

I tend to agree with most of what you're saying here.

I would add, also, that there are a lot of scenarios where they would not have screamed etc. for a stranger. If he gained their confidence quickly -- posing as a person of authority (teacher, cop, pastor, etc.) -- if he scared them into cooperation with a weapon -- if he used chloroform or something like that.

 

[rachaellouise]

I have a gut feeling this won't be solved.. hope I'm wrong

 

[race93]

I tend to agree with most of what you're saying here.

I would add, also, that there are a lot of scenarios where they would not have screamed etc. for a stranger. If he gained their confidence quickly -- posing as a person of authority (teacher, cop, pastor, etc.) -- if he scared them into cooperation with a weapon -- if he used chloroform or something like that.

Which child do you feel would be most "enticing" to a SO? IMO the chatty, bubbly one. Could this child have been the main focus with the other being a "gift" to a partner in the abduction? IMO there are two perps...one the planner, the other more of a student.

 

[cluciano63]

It would not have to be to "send a message" if a drug connection killed them. It could be someone who bought drugs from the family,also happened to be a pedophile and made a mental note to keep an eye out for one or both of the girls. So it could still be connected to the drug activity without being personal.

 

[threecrazykids]

Which child do you feel would be most "enticing" to a SO? IMO the chatty, bubbly one. Could this child have been the main focus with the other being a "gift" to a partner in the abduction? IMO there are two perps...one the planner, the other more of a student.

First off...WELCOME!

I am not sure who the most enticing one would be, honestly. The chatty, bubbly one might be...however, on the other hand, one that may NOT be chatty and informative might be a better bet. One who could keep their "secret".

If 2 perps are involved it makes sense...but I would think that would be a red flag for anyone who would know TWO people who would be off on a Friday afternoon and would be apt to do such a thing. I'm also considering that a woman was somehow involved. I just think the girls would be more apt to go willingly with a woman who would lead them to a man lying in wait.

These are the types of things that if the public knew there could potentially be lots of people who could stir up ideas of who is capable of this...however LE isn't doing any pleading for the public's help. Does that mean they don't NEED anyone's help? Who knows...

 

[race93]

What if the planner had the student grab the girls, so there would less chance of them being connected? IMO the student is younger, there for less threatening to the girls. I could see both girls approaching someone say walking a puppy or dog, asking if they could pet it etc. Person could have said, "The puppy is getting tired from walking, would you like to carry it to my vehicle? I've more pups inside." Then at the vehicle display a hidden weapon and force them in said vehicle. One girl would have her arms full, both would be caught off guard.
All in my opinion of course, running through possible scenario's.

Thank you for the Welcome!

 

[carbuff]

Which child do you feel would be most "enticing" to a SO? IMO the chatty, bubbly one. Could this child have been the main focus with the other being a "gift" to a partner in the abduction? IMO there are two perps...one the planner, the other more of a student.

I don't really have an opinion about that. I don't see any evidence that would point toward two perps, but I can't see that it's impossible, either.

 

[Considering]

It's not just your computer, the site has not been updated since February 11. I e-mailed the website administrator to ask when this would be fixed, but never got a reply.

If you want to see info about Dan's arrest, go to the Waterloo Police Department Arrest Logs, he's on there.

http://www.waterloopolice.com/index.php?option=com_wrapper&view=wrapper&Itemid=63

It's back, now.

http://www.bhcso.org/WhosInJail.aspx

 

[Squeeze]

I've been thinking about the person who abducted and killed the girls, and the amount of time he needed to do this.

My theory is based on my belief that the girls were abducted at Meyers Lake by a single perp and taken directly to 7 Bridges.

So, here goes:

First, he drove to Meyers Lake and parked his vehicle at Maiden Lane, met/waited for the girls to arrive at Meyers Lake and persuaded/coerced the girls to go with him. Once in the vehicle, he subdued the girls (unless they went with him willingly because he was known to them).

He then drove to 7 Bridges. He may have sexually assaulted the girls in his vehicle. He then walked the girls/carried the girls into the woods, killed them, returned to his vehicle and drove back to Evansdale or Waterloo. He probably took time to wash up and change clothes.

I believe the perp was back in Evansdale by the time the girls' bikes were located at Meyers Lake, or very shortly thereafter.

If, as I suspect, this crime was carefully planned, it may not have taken more than a couple of hours from start to finish. Who could take this amount of time to commit this crime without someone noticing his absence? I'm thinking he's either unemployed, works a night shift, or has enough flexibility with his job that he could take the time off without anyone becoming suspicious.

All of this is JMO, and I don't intend to defend this post. I know there are a lot of opinions that differ from mine. The main point of my post is to discuss how much time was needed to commit this crime, based on my theory.

I dont think it was necessarily planned at all. Well, not in the sense that he wanted these particular girls. He may have been waiting for someone, anyone to come along. Maybe he waited and realized he knew them, making his job easier. Evansdale is rather small. Not out of the question. Or maybe the walking the dog/puppy theory. That might take a little planning. Still, I think it was more of a crime of opportunity, with some of the particulars left to chance, some not. And things just fell into place.

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[cluciano63]

If not a druggie, I can picture a couple of losers driving around on a Friday, probably chugging some beers, and seeing two young girls and getting an idea.

 

[cindersoot]

In the beginning of the investigation, a man caught on camera at Caseys driving a white van was interogated, than released. My question is why, why a white van? Who saw a white van?

 

[threecrazykids]

In the beginning of the investigation, a man caught on camera at Caseys driving a white van was interogated, than released. My question is why, why a white van? Who saw a white van?

I really think that whole white van association came from the fact that there had been a TON of "white van abduction attempts". I think the fact that they were watching video and saw someone with a white van close to the scene of where they went missing prompted them to check it out just in case.

I think the fact he not only turned himself in immediately, but was also cleared right away indicates it was just a coincidence. That's just my take on it, though...

 

[Squeeze]

If not a druggie, I can picture a couple of losers driving around on a Friday, probably chugging some beers, and seeing two young girls and getting an idea.

One of the theories high on my list.

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[Marilynilpa]

I really think that whole white van association came from the fact that there had been a TON of "white van abduction attempts". I think the fact that they were watching video and saw someone with a white van close to the scene of where they went missing prompted them to check it out just in case.

I think the fact he not only turned himself in immediately, but was also cleared right away indicates it was just a coincidence. That's just my take on it, though...

I wonder if perhaps a witness who saw the girls that day also recalled seeing that van in the area? I got the impression that LE was looking for the van for a more specific reason than it just being a white van. JMO.

 

[race93]

I wonder if perhaps a witness who saw the girls that day also recalled seeing that van in the area? I got the impression that LE was looking for the van for a more specific reason than it just being a white van. JMO.

Say LE spotted a "white van" on surveillance, would it be one that had been seen often enough to not stick out or be memorable? Such as a delivery van (car parts or restoration), landscaping, florists, or cleaning business vehicle? If I remember correctly, the van in the video had no advertisement on it.

While listening to the scanner the days after the disappearance, not only were LE following up on van reports, they were also interested in abandoned bikes. Sorry I have no link, just looking at my notes from that time. Why would they have interest in other bikes if they had already recovered the "girl's" bikes?

My thought's are that the girl's were abducted closer to the Collins home. Possibly near one of the building's /parking lot's. The girl's got off the bikes, and were abducted. Leaving the bikes and Elizabeths purse available for others (kids on their own bikes)to come along and take them for a ride to the lake, discarding the girl's bikes and throwing the purse over the fence.

 

[race93]

I could not tell if it was anything or not either. It looked to me like Elizabeth was in the lead, but wouldn't testify to it.

Could what your seeing across the handlebars be the straps on Elizabeth's purse wrapped around?