IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #28

[Bootsctr]

Sadly, as much as it pains me to say, I have a feeling these girls may have been a little less supervised than what we have heard from the family. No one wants to go on national TV and admit that the girls typically rode their bikes unsupervised for longer than what the "perfect parent" would consider "acceptable".

But the reality is this: Small town people live like this every day. My kids STILL did before these girls went missing. No one thinks it's going to happen in their community. Kids are out riding their bikes all hours of the day (and sometimes night) and come home safe year after year. I grew up in the same town I live in today and honestly not much has changed. I'm sure some of the daily practices that go on in my house would horrify people who have never lived with my "small town mentality".

It's not even the story of "when I was little we could leave in the morning and not come home until dinner"...I'm saying it STILL happens today in small towns. Just up until a year or so ago can I say I'd noticed a sharp decline in the # of kids who were out riding on their own. Even now, I still see tons of kids out...it's just there are typically at least 2, sometimes more. But parents still let their kids out and about for long lengths of time.

Anyway, my point is simply that I think these girls probably went further than anyone in the family knew. How many of OUR parents would be shocked if they knew all the stuff we did when we were younger? I am CERTAIN my parents didn't know all the mischief I got into.

I know the family means well in their interviews declaring how well supervised they were and how obedient the girls were about their boundaries, but someone isn't accurate...either Mr. C or the family...but I don't know which. And I don't necessarily think anyone is lying, it's what they truly believe.

:goodpost: I believe the famly does not want to admit that the girls were as closely supervised as the family claims, nor do I believe the family is lying. Maybe what the girls were told was vague.... "Don't go too far." Maybe the lake to the girls was not too far. Who knows? Only the girls and the killer. I lean that they were abducted closer to home sooner after they were seen on video and that they were taken closer to 1:00 about the time Mr. C was going to say before his wife reinterpreted his sighting of the girls for him. The biker's timeline does not work for me at all. Sorry. I don't think he's lying, I just don't know if it was the girls' bikes he saw at all. I think whomever did this is self-employed or does not have a regular job. They aren't really accountable to anyone. They would not be suspected of abducting 2 little girls and murdering them, but they are "different", a loner so to speak. I don't think they are on the registered sex offender registry either.

 

[race93]

Your post sparks a thought. Is there such a thing, people who, specialise in
child sex & drugs, that Dan might have unknowingly been dealing with? That would seem a short list if it exists in this case ???
:waitasec:

Your quote has brought up some thought's and questions: Do most drug dealers stick with only one type of drug to deal like a "niche"? Meth dealer only meth, prescription drug dealer, only pain pills & such? I'm just wondering if we are focusing strictly on the meth and missing a possible connection to "others" in the community. Could perp/perps be another "type" of dealer with an interest in young girls?

 

[Squeeze]

Just FYI, Heather's facebook page is active again. She's posted pictures from previous Valentine's days. Elizabeth is so sweet. RIP sweet girl.

 

[race93]

Not sure why the part about cabinet maker disturbs me in regards to Elizabeth and Lyric, but would a custom cabinet maker have a van to carry their cabinets to their intended destination? Just random thoughts. . .

Yes! I believe they would. I have heard of two cabinet company's they are Bertch Cabinets & Omega Cabinets in Waterloo. I believe Bertch was owned by two brothers. They dissolved the partner ship , one owns Bertch, the other Omega.

 

[foxbluff]

Say LE spotted a "white van" on surveillance, would it be one that had been seen often enough to not stick out or be memorable? Such as a delivery van (car parts or restoration), landscaping, florists, or cleaning business vehicle? If I remember correctly, the van in the video had no advertisement on it.

While listening to the scanner the days after the disappearance, not only were LE following up on van reports, they were also interested in abandoned bikes. Sorry I have no link, just looking at my notes from that time. Why would they have interest in other bikes if they had already recovered the "girl's" bikes?

My thought's are that the girl's were abducted closer to the Collins home. Possibly near one of the building's /parking lot's. The girl's got off the bikes, and were abducted. Leaving the bikes and Elizabeths purse available for others (kids on their own bikes)to come along and take them for a ride to the lake, discarding the girl's bikes and throwing the purse over the fence.

Welcome aboard, race93!

BBM - That's very interesting, IMO. The first thing that popped into my mind was the postings here by an IA person who happened to be camping in campgrounds near Meyers lake that wkend and had observed nearby campers dismantling a couple of bikes late one night.

My second thought is that perhaps LE wasn't trying to find "additional" abandoned bikes but were simply trying to get more witnesses who might have seen the girls' abandoned bikes to come forward... you know, in order to ask them what time of day they saw those bikes, etc.

 

[threecrazykids]

Yes! I believe they would. I have heard of two cabinet company's they are Bertch Cabinets & Omega Cabinets in Waterloo. I believe Bertch was owned by two brothers. They dissolved the partner ship , one owns Bertch, the other Omega.

Bertch is related to aunt Tammy.

 

[cindersoot]

On the news today they said that common citizens can own and operate drones. I think every city should have one so when a child goes missing the drone can maybe catch any activites. Who knows.

 

[threecrazykids]

On the news today they said that common citizens can own and operate drones. I think every city should have one so when a child goes missing the drone can maybe catch any activites. Who knows.

For cryin' out loud...we microchip our pets, but not our kids. And I'm not trying to start a big debate about the whole microchipping thing...but seriously how smart are we?!:waitasec:

 

[Squeeze]

Yes! I believe they would. I have heard of two cabinet company's they are Bertch Cabinets & Omega Cabinets in Waterloo. I believe Bertch was owned by two brothers. They dissolved the partner ship , one owns Bertch, the other Omega.

I've never seen a Bertch or Omega delivery van. They use semi trailers, because they ship all over the country. They don't deliver small loads locally. Gary owns Bertch and Bob started Omega after he left the partnership with Gary. Then Bob sold Omega to another company, who also owned Waterloo Industries.

If my memory is correct, Tammy and her brother Russell are niece and nephew of Bob and Gary. I'm trying to find an obit to confirm this.

But, there are a lot of possibilities as far as other construction vans, with it being prime remodeling season in mid July.

 

[Squeeze]

Welcome aboard, race93!

BBM - That's very interesting, IMO. The first thing that popped into my mind was the postings here by an IA person who happened to be camping in campgrounds near Meyers lake that wkend and had observed nearby campers dismantling a couple of bikes late one night.

My second thought is that perhaps LE wasn't trying to find "additional" abandoned bikes but were simply trying to get more witnesses who might have seen the girls' abandoned bikes to come forward... you know, in order to ask them what time of day they saw those bikes, etc.

That's the first I've heard of dismantelinv bikes! Very interesting. And yes, why would the subject of abandoned bikes come up after the bikes were found?

 

[foxbluff]

That's the first I've heard of dismantelinv bikes! Very interesting. And yes, why would the subject of abandoned bikes come up after the bikes were found?

Ohhh yes... campers taking bikes apart was most interesting back when that was posted. I have been trying to remember our poster's name and believe I have finally been able to do so.

While there's a lull here on current thread, and just for the heck of it, I'm going to try and backtrack to see if I can find that old post.

Btw, Ty for the local insight you provided up thread.

ETA: Here we go, I found it: Message #282

Found Deceased IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, and Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #18 - Page 12 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

 

[Tennlyn]

For cryin' out loud...we microchip our pets, but not our kids. And I'm not trying to start a big debate about the whole microchipping thing...but seriously how smart are we?!:waitasec:

But the microchip thing just works if someone finds your pet and a vet/shelter scans it to see who it belongs to, right?

 

[Tennlyn]

As far as the confirmed last sighting...I would have to say it's kind of a confusing mess! IMO Grandma is not real sure when the girls left, video from auction house may be off 8 min either way. T.G. said he swerved around bikes, rode to bathroom and called his daughter at 12:28. Mr.C thought he saw them in the time span of 3 to 4 hours. I wonder how many people reported seeing the girl's but after hours of repeating said sighting finally confessed to LE that they really had not seen the girl's but wanted to be a part of things? I'm not saying this is what TG & C did, just offering an example as to possibly why the timeline is such a mess.
IMO the girl's were abducted between the sighting/video at auction house & 1:00.

BBM

Wait a second! Are you saying there was a possibility that the auction house video recorded the girls closer to 12 Noon?! I've never heard that before. Where does the "either way" info come from?

That would make TG's sighting of the bikes at 12:27 pm more possible. :moo:

 

[threecrazykids]

But the microchip thing just works if someone finds your pet and a vet/shelter scans it to see who it belongs to, right?

Yes, but there are also other types of "GPS" chips that have been discussed regarding pets and children.

But yes...microchipping in the simplest sense just identifies the owner...I was thinking more along the lines of some sort of GPS chip.

 

[foxbluff]

BBM

Wait a second! Are you saying there was a possibility that the auction house video recorded the girls closer to 12 Noon?! I've never heard that before. Where does the "either way" info come from?

That would make TG's sighting of the bikes at 12:27 pm more possible. :moo:

lol... ahhh yes, that ever changing timeline!

I'm just jumping off Tennlyn's post here: I can probably "curl everybody's hair" here by stating that I've never been 100% sure that it was our little girls on that video July 13th !!!

And, to all here, if it's not them on the video then where does that leave us?!?!? Gads...

 

[race93]

Yes, but there are also other types of "GPS" chips that have been discussed regarding pets and children.

But yes...microchipping in the simplest sense just identifies the owner...I was thinking more along the lines of some sort of GPS chip.

An implantable gps would be an option...based off parent's preference, with the option for removal at anytime. They would need to be placed at different locations so perps would not be able to remove. The same concept is being discussed regarding improved tracking of registered sex offenders. IMO an excellent idea!

 

[Marilynilpa]

As far as the confirmed last sighting...I would have to say it's kind of a confusing mess! IMO Grandma is not real sure when the girls left, video from auction house may be off 8 min either way. T.G. said he swerved around bikes, rode to bathroom and called his daughter at 12:28. Mr.C thought he saw them in the time span of 3 to 4 hours. I wonder how many people reported seeing the girl's but after hours of repeating said sighting finally confessed to LE that they really had not seen the girl's but wanted to be a part of things? I'm not saying this is what TG & C did, just offering an example as to possibly why the timeline is such a mess.
IMO the girl's were abducted between the sighting/video at auction house & 1:00.

Race93, you caused me to get a few PMs today asking me who "Anderson" is - when you quoted my post, the word "and" somehow changed to "Anderson"! :waitasec:

You sure are right about the last sighting of the girls being a confusing mess! We've gone round and round about who saw them when and at what time. I, for one, cannot make TG's sighting fit into the timeline. I'm not sure what to make of that - I don't think he's lying, but I also don't think he could possibly have seen the girls' bikes on July 13 at the time he said he saw them. JMO

Do you feel the girls ever made it to the lake?

 

[Marilynilpa]

An implantable gps would be an option...based off parent's preference, with the option for removal at anytime. They would need to be placed at different locations so perps would not be able to remove. The same concept is being discussed regarding improved tracking of registered sex offenders. IMO an excellent idea!

I thinking placing tracking microchips in sex offenders is an excellent idea!

 

[Marilynilpa]

lol... ahhh yes, that ever changing timeline!

I'm just jumping off Tennlyn's post here: I can probably "curl everybody's hair" here by stating that I've never been 100% sure that it was our little girls on that video July 13th !!!

And, to all here, if it's not them on the video then where does that leave us?!?!? Gads...

If I hadn't been told that the video showed the girls on their bikes,I would never have been able to determine WHO was on the video! The quality is so poor that it could be any two people (male, female, old, young) on any two bikes.

 

[race93]

Race93, you caused me to get a few PMs today asking me who "Anderson" is - when you quoted my post, the word "and" somehow changed to "Anderson"! :waitasec:

You sure are right about the last sighting of the girls being a confusing mess! We've gone round and round about who saw them when and at what time. I, for one, cannot make TG's sighting fit into the timeline. I'm not sure what to make of that - I don't think he's lying, but I also don't think he could possibly have seen the girls' bikes on July 13 at the time he said he saw them. JMO

Do you feel the girls ever made it to the lake?

Oops! I'd been using my phone, what a pain! Sorry!
No I don't feel the girl's made it to the lake. My feeling is the scent dogs picked up the girl's scent from their bikes and Elizabeth's purse. If the girl's had ridden around the lake wouldn't the dogs have been able to follow their trail around it and not in just the localized area they did "hit"upon?