IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #28

[NWLady]

You seem to have turned around some of my comments and taken them as a personal attack as well which was not as I intended. I don't consider anything written here as personal on any level. I wasn't attempting to correct you. I was noting that it was my understanding that the Allen Hospital visit was not part of Dan's court-ordered treatment and the paperwork did not seem to indicate that he left AMA. "AMA" and "HIPAA" (and I apologize for my typographical error) are common terms of which many people are knowledgable, not only those in the medical field. My reference to HIPAA had nothing to do with your post. I found it of interest, and still do, that the Allen Hospital information was released publicly. It seems like that information would be private under HIPAA, but I don't claim to be an expert on HIPAA. I find it of interest as I said. I am aware of Compliance Officers. There are some at a nearby facility - a facility that provided information to a newspaper reporter who called to inquire about a local public figure being admitted to the psych ward of said facility. The information was published on the front page of the following days newspaper.

Nor do I claim to be an expert on HIPAA, nor would I want to be, and I totally agree with you that it is interesting about the information being released. Many people may very well be knowledgeable about HIPAA but to fully understand it is not something I would want to partake in or be responsible for, simply because at our last monthly board meeting, it was noted that there are 563 pages (I believe but don't quote me please) of new guidelines effective March 2013. :what:
One thing we do all agree on here is that we all want justice for Elizabeth and Lyric, these were two innocent children who did not deserve this, and we can only continue to pray that the killer(s) will be charged soon. lease:

 

[daisynae]

This summer I think I'll take a short vacation to Evansdale, and Meyers Lake. This case has effected me so deeply, and obviously I am not alone in feeling that way. I'd like to take a couple of bouquets of pink and purple flowers and leave them at the lake in memory of Lyric and Lizzie. I never knew I could care so much about two little girls I never met.

I agree! I think they have touched so many hearts!
I ust pray that LE know what they are doing!
It is very strange..

 

[Marilynilpa]

I've noticed we have a lot of lurkers tonight. Maybe you'd like to join us and add your thoughts. We would enjoy hearing them. As you can see, we have some lively discussions, but I feel we all respect each other even when we disagree!

I'm curious about why Drew and Heather's Facebook pages have been taken down. I wonder if that means something is about to happen?

Heather reads and "likes" every comment I have posted on her FB page. She has well over 3,000 "friends", and if she reads all of the comments and responds to them, maybe it is just becoming too time consuming. I'm sorry her page is down, because she posted some adorable pictures of Lizzie (and her siblings).

 

[Dr. Know?]

I'm not sure Marilynn, I saw Heather posts on the booking of Dan at CVM fb. People aren't very nice but last I saw this morning Heather held her own. That's all I know. From what I read up until BD fb posted that Heather & Drew deleted her account, Heather just ignored most but CVM can get pretty harsh at times. She rose above it.

This is all hearsay or facebooksay due to the deleted accounts and I didn't read all, I did read both girl's bodies had not been released for burial or cremation yet per Heather.

Once you delete an account your comments disappear...I think your fb can be reinstated if you login in within a month or two though after deletion.

They don't need anymore ugly in their lives. I would do it too.

 

[Darcyline]

I don't see the logic behind raping kids either, but I am not taking logic to mean that in the context in which it is being used. More like, every crime has some sort of logic driving it. Pedophiles exist, unfortunately and for whatever reason (brain injury, the devil, evil, chemistry, whatever you think creates these monsters) they desire children. In their minds, stealing children gratifies their deepest desire and then hiding the children allows them to continue to gratify that desire. There is a logic even if it is messed up.
So, what would be the logic driving a drug-related connection? I can think of two general scenarios-someone who is drugged up and crazy and/or wanting revenge. If revenge-based, why not leave the bodies on their front lawn or just shoot them where they stand? It seems almost too nice and neat to be just a crazy methed up person who snapped while under the influence.

It seems like drugs should be involved-like, that crazy of a past cannot be totally irrelevant. I am just struggling to come up with a logical sequence of events that would make it drug-related. What are your thoughts? How have other drug-related child deaths played out? I may have to do some research.

Also please note that I do not in any way think the family is involved and am not in any way encouraging theories that involve family. The unfortunate truth is (in my mind) that a drug past can bring undesirables into your circle. I don't think it is unreasonable to consider someone who might have had contact with the family at some point in their past.

 

[cluciano63]

Have the police said that anyone has been cleared? That would be different, IMO, than saying someone is not considered to be, or is not a suspect.

 

[Marilynilpa]

Have the police said that anyone has been cleared? That would be different, IMO, than saying someone is not considered to be, or is not a suspect.

I don't think LE has said anyone is "eliminated" or "cleared", just that certain people are not suspects. I agree with you that saying someone is not a suspect is different than saying someone has been cleared.

Here's an example where LE says someone isn't a suspect, and yet no one has been cleared:

Lt. Claudio Grandjean told reporters Friday morning that the husband of a missing Gresham woman is "not a suspect" in the incident. But Grandjean also said that no one has been cleared, either.

http://www.oregonlive.com/gresham/index.ssf/2012/10/gresham_police_spokesman_says.html

So, at least in that case, it was possible to be both "not a suspect" and yet not cleared.

 

[RNER]

Per the police statement: Dan Morrissey and Misty Cook are not considered to be suspects. That's good enough for me.

What "police statement"? IMO, the articles you posted are media interpretation of what LE has supposedly indicated or stated. Has LE ever stated this publicly? I would be more inclined to believe it if it were coming directly from an LE statment instead of a media source. I believe "no one has been cleared" statement came directly from LE, so I will go along with that theory. BTW... I am quite familiar with the ways media lacks accuracy in their reporting.

 

[cindersoot]

No, but Lyric also wouldn't have wanted to be abducted and killed, and yet she was. So using that as an excuse to quit discussing what has appeared in an MSM article about Dan's arrest is kind of lame, IMO.

And I'm not Dan bashing - but it's hard not to discuss him when he was just in the news.

:banghead:

 

[cindersoot]

Meth addicts are not this smart to pull off a crime like this. They make mistakes, hell they can't even stand up straight and calm at the check out line in a grocery store.

 

[cindersoot]

Can anyone tell me what time the Mr. Carpenter said he saw the girls ride past his residence?

 

[cindersoot]

I would like to discuss the timeline again.

 

[RNER]

http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdal...cle_507d9bca-d2b1-11e1-8f0b-0019bb2963f4.html

Abben said despite Dan and Misty Morrissey's criminal backgrounds, no one set of parents is being targeted.

"Now that it is an abduction everyone is a suspect until we find these people, these two young girls. We look at everybody not just one set of parents over the other," he said. "... Everything has to be considered."

IMO...This does not imply that anyone, including parents are eliminated as suspects!

 

[otto]

See, here is where we really disagree. I see absolutely no logic in anyone raping a child. Maybe his subsequent actions (covering up to protect himself) are logical, but whatever causes the pedophile to do what he does is NOT logical to me.

I value your posts (and maps!), but I can see scenarios in which drugs are involved in this case that aren't as far-fetched as the scenario you outlined in your post.

To me, a random abduction seems way more far-fetched than drug involvement. JMO. The chances of a random abductor hanging around Meyers Lake on the off chance a kid would come by seems remote, and when you add to that the fact that this random abductor decided to take both girls instead of waiting for a less difficult target - well, I just find that hard to swallow. Again, IMO.

I didn't say that there was logic in raping children. I said that it is logical that, given that we have a child rapist, that child rapist will do everything in his/her power to hide the crime, such as assault random children and commit murder to cover up the crimes.

It's possible that the perp is a drug user and it's possible that the perp is an otherwise upstanding citizen. There is no evidence that we are aware of connecting the murders to drugs.

It does not follow that: because Dan and Misty are drug users, Elizabeth was abducted and murdered. Any viable theory has to fit the entire crime. That is, it should not be limited to only fitting parts of crime. As with the murder of Victoria Stafford, some people will connect Dan and Misty's drug use to the murder (it was an incorrect theory in the murder of Victoria Stafford), but one fallacy in that reasoning is that Elizabeth is omitted from the theory. At that point, the theory falls apart.

 

[otto]

Can anyone tell me what time the Mr. Carpenter said he saw the girls ride past his residence?

I think his original statement was between 12 and 3, but it may have been modified afterward.

 

[otto]

http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdal...cle_507d9bca-d2b1-11e1-8f0b-0019bb2963f4.html

Abben said despite Dan and Misty Morrissey's criminal backgrounds, no one set of parents is being targeted.

"Now that it is an abduction everyone is a suspect until we find these people, these two young girls. We look at everybody not just one set of parents over the other," he said. "... Everything has to be considered."

IMO...This does not imply that anyone, including parents are eliminated as suspects!

The statement you referenced was made on July 22. On July 26, police released the statement that Dan and Misty were not considered suspects.

ETA: Abben's statement may be from July 20
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...morrissey-elizabeth-collins-article-1.1118627

 

[otto]

Can anyone tell me what time the Mr. Carpenter said he saw the girls ride past his residence?

This map shows the bike routes in the Meyers Lake area as well as the route taken by the cyclist. The cyclist rode the bike trail North on the Evansdale Nature Trail to Meyers Lake, cycled around the lake to the parking lot, then cycled North on Elmer to Gilbert, then East on Gilbert to the Evansdale Nature Trail, then North to Lafayette, East on Lafayette, looped around on the red line, then turned South on Evansdale Nature Trail.

This map shows the times, per my understanding, around the lake

 

[threecrazykids]

Can anyone tell me what time the Mr. Carpenter said he saw the girls ride past his residence?

In the video at the lake where he was interviewed he had stated "between noon and 3" if memory serves me correctly.

I don't have the link off hand but it was one of the first videos I believe released within a day or 2 of the girls missing. He and his wife are standing at the lake.

But I believe between 12-3 is what he said...

 

[Tennlyn]

What "police statement"? IMO, the articles you posted are media interpretation of what LE has supposedly indicated or stated. Has LE ever stated this publicly? I would be more inclined to believe it if it were coming directly from an LE statment instead of a media source. I believe "no one has been cleared" statement came directly from LE, so I will go along with that theory. BTW... I am quite familiar with the ways media lacks accuracy in their reporting.

Oh how well I know that! I've been glued to the Dylan Redwine dissappearance. The media keeps reporting that his father is 'not a suspect' or 'not considered a suspect'. However, the few times where they actually directly quote LE (or play video of LE interviewed), LE uses language like "naming" or "calling". Big difference between saying "we aren't calling him a suspect" and saying "he's not a suspect"! MSM is far too sloppy in their reporting to capture the nuanced language that LE uses. :moo::moo::moo:

It seems that many police departments just don't name a suspect or POI until they actually make an arrest. All that does is encourage folks to stop cooperating and hire an attorney. :moo::moo::moo:

 

[JaimeInLA]

I think his original statement was between 12 and 3, but it may have been modified afterward.

He originally said 12-1, then revised it to 12-3. I can't find the link to the video interview with the Carpenters right now, but in it, he says 12-1.