IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #28

[foxbluff]

IMHO, after the bodies were found LE would have re-interviewed a whole lot of people (not just known, or suspected, SOs).

IMO it's a given that the more facts about a case LE has, the better able they are to effectively interview a possible perp.

When the bodies were found LE for the first time could be 100% sure that the girls were dead, that the perp had left the bodies at 7Bridges, and that more than likely the bodies had been there since July.

 

[otto]

You are right. It is standard procedure, they started interviewing SO's right after they went missing, (did the parents hint something to police, maybe they knew some people that fit into that category), after the bodies were found, they interviewed more. Its been seven months now, if it was not sexually motivated, why don't they just leave the SO's alone. I would not want to pay a detective to keep interviewing on this line of thought.

Police started interviewing registered sex offenders in Evansdale at 7 PM on July 13. I think that anytime two young girls vanish, interviewing sex offenders would be standard procedure.

 

[otto]

A false alibi shouldn't have been able to be cleared, I wouldn't think...:banghead: Verified and cleared should be exactly that.

I agree, that this could possibly be a sexual offense by someone who is NOT a registered offender.

Why not? Person A tells person B that he was alone and he's afraid police will pin the crime on him. Person B agrees to help.

Person A claims that he was with person B. Person B confirms that person A was at his house. It happens.

 

[threecrazykids]

Why not? Person A tells person B that he was alone and he's afraid police will pin the crime on him. Person B agrees to help.

Person A claims that he was with person B. Person B confirms that person A was at his house. It happens.

Oh I agree, false alibi's are given all the time! What I'm saying, is that he said she said shouldn't really be a verifiable alibi. I would HOPE that LE can weed out who really can be cleared and who can come up with an "alibi on the fly."

When LE shows up at their door to question them the first time, they really should either have an alibi that can be proven (such as being at work, etc.) or their alibi depends on another person's story.

I am not sure what LE considers a rock solid alibi. If someone says they were with another person, I'm sure LE would know how to discredit someone simply saying they were with another person. People try to pull that stuff all the time and LE typically can figure out how to see right through it.

Hopefully everyone who LE refers to as cleared can be verified and not just by another person's "help".

But I agree with you Otto...people often "help" others establish alibi's.

 

[otto]

IMHO, after the bodies were found LE would have re-interviewed a whole lot of people (not just known, or suspected, SOs).

IMO it's a given that the more facts about a case LE has, the better able they are to effectively interview a possible perp.

When the bodies were found LE for the first time could be 100% sure that the girls were dead, that the perp had left the bodies at 7Bridges, and that more than likely the bodies had been there since July.

Good point. The Division of Criminal Investigation would want to re-interview all the know sex offenders in Evansdale to see if there was a connection to Seven Bridges County Park.

 

[foxbluff]

O/T & from 2011 - Well... it now appears to me that I know even less abt Meth/MethLabs than I had previously thought... plastic pop bottles?!? Gads...

http://www.waterloopolice.com/images/stories/Waterloo/One_Pot_Meth_Lab_Poster.pdf

 

[superbee]

I still think, as backed by my textbook from last semester, that if they were out in the woods since July, it would be very difficult to determine definitively if sexual assault had occurred. Further, [Graphic Warning], sometimes the movement of insects can move clothing and create a false face-value appearance of sex assault. A forensic entomologist is usually needed to help identify true SA vs. insects moving down shorts, underwear, and moving shirts up. That said, I still think it was a sex motivated crime based on statistics, the organization involved, etc. but an actual sex act does not have to occur for it to be sexually motivated. Dismemberment, torture, etc. can all be used as a substitute for the sex act in sex motivated crimes.

I wonder, and it is heartwrenching to even think of this, I wonder if both of the girls' bodies were deposited in the park at the same time? I wonder if there is a period of time between one is deposited, and then the other some time further on?

 

[song22]

Well I have taken up Otto's challenge to find an example of someone who was arrested for a crime who police initially said was "not a suspect". It has not been easy! I Googled and got lots of legal advice about what to do if I find myself in the position of being a suspect!

I'm going to keep searching, just because I am curious. But I found this sad, sordid story about a man who claims he is innocent but who was charged with a murder. He was initially told he was "not a suspect". http://www.komu.com/news/special-report-part-one-steven-rios-and-family-break-silence/ Hope the link works!

 

[song22]

"If that's true, why are police still stating that Clay is not a suspect?" Reynolds said. "If they have that evidence, it's amazing he's still not listed as a suspect. Police have also said that they have no evidence that a crime has been committed."
http://www.semissourian.com/story/1746447.html

Here's another example of a time police said someone was "not a suspect" but was later arrested (and actually was a suspect all along).

Just interesting. I'm not picking on Otto! You just got me to thinking and searching.

 

[Snowbunny]

I agree, cleared should mean we are 100% confident this person or group has no involvement. I don't think all the RSOs are cleared, but then, as I've said, I hear LE use the term cleared less and less in general for just the reasons you stated 3crazykids.

and again, while I feel the girls or at least one of them may have been sexually assaulted, I do not think it is a showing of LE cards that they had people from the SO unit questioning the SOs, who better? Not because it tells us the type of crime that was committed, but because of the type of person being interviewed.

More than once I've seen LE state someone is cleared when in fact LE had them on their radar. They want the POI to feel secure enough to think that no one is looking at them.

 

[otto]

"If that's true, why are police still stating that Clay is not a suspect?" Reynolds said. "If they have that evidence, it's amazing he's still not listed as a suspect. Police have also said that they have no evidence that a crime has been committed."
http://www.semissourian.com/story/1746447.html

Here's another example of a time police said someone was "not a suspect" but was later arrested (and actually was a suspect all along).

Just interesting. I'm not picking on Otto! You just got me to thinking and searching.

Thanks for taking the time to look into this. It doesn't seem quite the same ... that is ... police did not come out and make a public statement that Mr. _________ is not considered a suspect, but instead defense lawyers have questioned why he is a person of interest and not a suspect. Police have not said that Dan and Misty are persons of interest ... instead they came forward and gave a statement that Dan and Misty are not considered suspects.

 

[tlcya]

Not jumping into the RSOs interviewed or re interviewed debate here. But when trying to satisfy my own curiosity about that I did read this old article regarding the Cousins law and discovered the timeline at the bottom. I am sure many here have read and used it but it is the first time I had seen it and I found it very interesting in that it is the timeline for the LE response to the girls going missing. It very nicely outlines what actions were taken when in regards to the initial search efforts, etc.

The timeline shows police were considering abduction as a possibility early on. Interviews with sex offenders started at 7 p.m. the day of disappearance and continued for days, and what became a nightly survey of trash Dumpsters began Saturday.

http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdal...cle_e1decc44-3f79-55a1-85f6-f26635373bb5.html

You must scroll down pretty far the timeline is at the bottom of the article. I thought I would bring this link forward for those who were debating earlier in the week what actions were taken when during those early days.

 

[jenandemmie]

I wonder, and it is heartwrenching to even think of this, I wonder if both of the girls' bodies were deposited in the park at the same time? I wonder if there is a period of time between one is deposited, and then the other some time further on?

I think he/she/they would have been too smart to risk that. The rest of the crime so far was committed with great cunning and skill. I'm not complementing a murderer, don't get me wrong. But I don't think he/she/they would have risked entering the area a second time, either carrying a body or walking the other one in. Also, I think if the bodies were at two different stages of composition, the hunters might not have immediately assumed it was the cousins like they did.

 

[threecrazykids]

I was just looking at this map with a timeline of events. I think the little bubbles will maybe clear up some timeline questions as well as provide a few tidbits of information.

http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdal...tml_c8ef29ca-d077-11e1-8635-001a4bcf887a.html

On bubble 4 (I believe) it shows 4pm was the time the bikes were found. What I found interesting (and maybe I just missed this) was that they note that the cell phone found in the purse indeed COULD have made calls (per the BHCS office).

In bubble 2 it shows 12:11 being 3524 Lafayette Rd. It states they were last SEEN riding their bikes behind Lederman's Big and Tall. I am assuming this means a PERSON saw them (possibly Grandma) riding here.

Bubble 3 also shows 12:11 as the time of 3520 Lafayette being the Cornbelt Auction video. I think this is what they are using to CONFIRM the girls were out riding at that time as this address is right next to Cornbelt Auction video.

The rest of the bubbles are more or less events that happened following the discovery of the bikes.

 

[Considering]

I was just looking at this map with a timeline of events. I think the little bubbles will maybe clear up some timeline questions as well as provide a few tidbits of information.

http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdal...tml_c8ef29ca-d077-11e1-8635-001a4bcf887a.html

On bubble 4 (I believe) it shows 4pm was the time the bikes were found. What I found interesting (and maybe I just missed this) was that they note that the cell phone found in the purse indeed COULD have made calls (per the BHCS office).

SBM

Not long after the girls went missing, Rick Abben stated that Elizabeth's phone should have been able to make 911 calls.

http://www.examiner.com/article/meyers-lake-draining-while-search-continous-for-missing-iowa-girls (July 16, 2012)

I don't think we know if Elizabeth or Lyric knew it could make 911 calls, however.

 

[foxbluff]

Not jumping into the RSOs interviewed or re interviewed debate here. But when trying to satisfy my own curiosity about that I did read this old article regarding the Cousins law and discovered the timeline at the bottom. I am sure many here have read and used it but it is the first time I had seen it and I found it very interesting in that it is the timeline for the LE response to the girls going missing. It very nicely outlines what actions were taken when in regards to the initial search efforts, etc.

The timeline shows police were considering abduction as a possibility early on. Interviews with sex offenders started at 7 p.m. the day of disappearance and continued for days, and what became a nightly survey of trash Dumpsters began Saturday.

http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdal...cle_e1decc44-3f79-55a1-85f6-f26635373bb5.html

You must scroll down pretty far the timeline is at the bottom of the article. I thought I would bring this link forward for those who were debating earlier in the week what actions were taken when during those early days.

Ty, TLC, for this link. I don't believe I've seen this Timeline before either because (3) things struck me as news.

Two of the three things BBM.

The third surprise was: 8 a.m. Sat. July 14 - STAR-1 sends cadaver dogs to the lake.

 

[Reverie]

Ty, TLC, for this link. I don't believe I've seen this Timeline before either because (3) things struck me as news.

Two of the three things BBM.

The third surprise was: 8 a.m. Sat. July 14 - STAR-1 sends cadaver dogs to the lake.

Could this be the reason the FBI stated they felt the girls were 'alive'?

 

[foxbluff]

Could this be the reason the FBI stated they felt the girls were 'alive'?

Good catch! I hadn't considered that but now that you've got me thinking abt it in that light... it certainly seems possible that it could have been a contributing factor to that FBI spokeswoman saying the girls were alive.

 

[cindersoot]

Could this be the reason the FBI stated they felt the girls were 'alive'?

If thats the case it's pretty stupid, cause why would you base the fact that cadaver dogs not hitting on a scent at the lake come to that conclusion.

 

[alliemay]

I think they also could have made that statement based on the facts that there was no physical evidence of foul play at that time. Just a though...