IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #28

[otto]

We've discussed this before I believe, somewhere on these threads. :waitasec: I always felt that IF those bikes that Mr. Gamerdinger stated he saw were NOT the girls bikes we would know by now there was a misunderstanding.

I remember questioning this before. I asked, if they were NOT the girls bikes, then WHOSE WERE THEY? If they weren't being ridden by the girls, then where where they when the cyclist came by? The cyclist had stated he didn't see anyone when he swerved to miss the bikes.

I just can't believe there aren't more people in town that can clarify these "misunderstandings". If they weren't the girls bikes, with all the hoopla, SOMEONE would know that the bikes that the cyclist swerved around weren't the girls. But I find it even more questionable then, that 2 bikes, (unmanned) were there at that time...still there at 2...and found at 4ish and were NOT the girls bikes.

There is certainly something odd about the report about a cyclist being in the exact area where the girls were abducted, but if there was anything to his bike sighting, it would be included in the police timeline ... and it isn't. Police have denied knowing anything about the cyclist's claim, and they have provided a timeline for the girls placing them on Brovan at the time that the cyclist supposedly saw two bikes on the trail. For all we know, he didn't see two bikes that day, or he got his time wrong ... all sorts of possibilities.

The bottom line is that if we look at police information, the timeline does not have any problems with it. The girls were on Brovan until about 12:30. At that time, they headed towards Elmer and Gilbert, then Arbutus and were seen in that area between 12:30-1:00. The bikes were at the gate at 2 PM. That suggests that the girls vanished between 1 and 2.

 

[threecrazykids]

http://www.kcrg.com/news/local/Three-Dogs-shot-in-past-two-weeks-in-Benton-County-191913471.html
O/T - there is a thread on WS for this.

UGH...don't even get me started on this. :furious: Those poor dogs. I'm tellin' ya...people are going to start taking matters into their own hands here pretty soon if these idiots don't stop the bs. There was another incident not too long ago of some fool driving by and just randomly shot pet horses in a field while they were grazing.

The posts on FB about this (on KCRG) people are waging war against these types of people...saying things like "If someone shoots my dog, I will shoot them dead". And I believe it. People are sick and tired of this kind of behavior. Cowards is what they are. Cowards who think they are cool and tough against defenseless animals. Super cool.:furious:

 

[threecrazykids]

There is certainly something odd about the report about a cyclist being in the exact area where the girls were abducted, but if there was anything to his bike sighting, it would be included in the police timeline ... and it isn't. Police have denied knowing anything about the cyclist's claim, and they have provided a timeline for the girls placing them on Brovan at the time that the cyclist supposedly saw two bikes on the trail. For all we know, he didn't see two bikes that day, or he got his time wrong ... all sorts of possibilities.

The bottom line is that if we look at police information, the timeline does not have any problems with it. The girls were on Brovan until about 12:30. At that time, they headed towards Elmer and Gilbert, then Arbutus and were seen in that area between 12:30-1:00. The bikes were at the gate at 2 PM. That suggests that the girls vanished between 1 and 2.

Great points! I believe aunt Tammy said that there was a fisher person who said they'd seen two girls riding bikes as well...(which direction I believe was undetermined because one interview they were headed west, the other east)...but she never really gave a time...as I think she asked how long the person had been there and he had said "awhile". But...they arrived after 3, so if they'd been there "awhile" the 1-2 timeframe makes perfect sense with this person's sighting as well.

 

[alliemay]

UGH...don't even get me started on this. :furious: Those poor dogs. I'm tellin' ya...people are going to start taking matters into their own hands here pretty soon if these idiots don't stop the bs. There was another incident not too long ago of some fool driving by and just randomly shot pet horses in a field while they were grazing.

The posts on FB about this (on KCRG) people are waging war against these types of people...saying things like "If someone shoots my dog, I will shoot them dead". And I believe it. People are sick and tired of this kind of behavior. Cowards is what they are. Cowards who think they are cool and tough against defenseless animals. Super cool.:furious:

Yes I had posted on the horses a while ago, finding different things in my quest to look for the type of person that would do this to the girls. Searching for people who have been cruel to animals, the sickness starts somewhere.

 

[cindersoot]

Kwwl this morning. Cedar Rapids police are searching for a missing teen who was last seen Tuesday morning. 13 yr old Angel Mattix last seen at 575 Ashton Pl NE Cedar Rapids before 7:30 am.

 

[foxbluff]

Great points! I believe aunt Tammy said that there was a fisher person who said they'd seen two girls riding bikes as well...(which direction I believe was undetermined because one interview they were headed west, the other east)...but she never really gave a time...as I think she asked how long the person had been there and he had said "awhile". But...they arrived after 3, so if they'd been there "awhile" the 1-2 timeframe makes perfect sense with this person's sighting as well.

BBM - Lordy I get so confused... was there more than one fisherman that Tammy talked to? :waitasec:

Jane Velez-Mitchell - Aired July 16, 2012

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Does it seem -- do you believe that they were taken by a stranger?

BROUSSEAU: Absolutely. Absolutely. I feel in my heart that there are a lot of pedophiles that live in that area. Myers Lake is not a very large lake. It has the bike trail that runs around it.

When my mother and I, the grandmother who was babysitting, when my mother and I went on our search for them, and this was at about a quarter to 3 -- and keep in mind the last they were seen was at 11:30 a.m., when they told mom they were going on the bike ride. So that is the last time they were for sure seen. And now, it`s going on to -- it`s getting close to being a quarter to 3.

We stop at Meyers Lake. I said, "Mom, drive me to Meyer Lake." I had Elizabeth`s older brother who`s 12, Kelly (ph), with us. And I just jumped out and started asking random strangers, "Have you seen two little girls?" Gave them the description, the colors of the bikes, and possibly what they were wearing.

And one man stepped forward and said, "Yes, I seen them going east on the bike trail at about 2:30." Now, whether he`s telling the truth or not, they do have this man`s name. You know, I don`t know. Whether he`s a person of interest, I don`t know.

But the girls` bike did trail around and ended up on the south side of the lake by the interstate, which would be 380, I-380.
<snipped>
Tammy, I want to get back to you. Do you have any thoughts with anybody in the area -- and I`ll ask this of Misty as well -- acting strangely? Was there -- have you seen any strange people, people driving around in vans, any sense that this is -- any foreshadowing whatsoever?

TAMMY RUSSO, AUNT OF MISSING GIRLS: Absolutely not. There was nothing that seemed terribly out of the ordinary. There was a little boy fishing, and he had been there a long time. I asked him as well, when I first approached and started asking random people. I said, "Did you see two little girls on a bicycle? He said "No". I said, "How long have you been here?" He said, "A long time."

So when I told you a man said that he had seen them going east on the bike trial, whether that was true or not, yes, they have his name, they know who he is. But it appears what he said was true because like I said the lake wraps around and the bikes were found on the south side. And that`s where the girls --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I want to jump in because I want to ask Misty a question. Do you think your daughter or Elizabeth would want to go in that lake and go swimming? <snipped>

ETA - I don't know why the text turned so small... I think it happened when I added Italics before submitting post. Are you able to read it?

 

[threecrazykids]

BBM - Lordy I get so confused... was there more than one fisherman that Tammy talked to? :waitasec:

Jane Velez-Mitchell - Aired July 16, 2012

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Does it seem -- do you believe that they were taken by a stranger?

BROUSSEAU: Absolutely. Absolutely. I feel in my heart that there are a lot of pedophiles that live in that area. Myers Lake is not a very large lake. It has the bike trail that runs around it.

When my mother and I, the grandmother who was babysitting, when my mother and I went on our search for them, and this was at about a quarter to 3 -- and keep in mind the last they were seen was at 11:30 a.m., when they told mom they were going on the bike ride. So that is the last time they were for sure seen. And now, it`s going on to -- it`s getting close to being a quarter to 3.

We stop at Meyers Lake. I said, "Mom, drive me to Meyer Lake." I had Elizabeth`s older brother who`s 12, Kelly (ph), with us. And I just jumped out and started asking random strangers, "Have you seen two little girls?" Gave them the description, the colors of the bikes, and possibly what they were wearing.

And one man stepped forward and said, "Yes, I seen them going east on the bike trail at about 2:30." Now, whether he`s telling the truth or not, they do have this man`s name. You know, I don`t know. Whether he`s a person of interest, I don`t know.

But the girls` bike did trail around and ended up on the south side of the lake by the interstate, which would be 380, I-380.
<snipped>
Tammy, I want to get back to you. Do you have any thoughts with anybody in the area -- and I`ll ask this of Misty as well -- acting strangely? Was there -- have you seen any strange people, people driving around in vans, any sense that this is -- any foreshadowing whatsoever?

TAMMY RUSSO, AUNT OF MISSING GIRLS: Absolutely not. There was nothing that seemed terribly out of the ordinary. There was a little boy fishing, and he had been there a long time. I asked him as well, when I first approached and started asking random people. I said, "Did you see two little girls on a bicycle? He said "No". I said, "How long have you been here?" He said, "A long time."

So when I told you a man said that he had seen them going east on the bike trial, whether that was true or not, yes, they have his name, they know who he is. But it appears what he said was true because like I said the lake wraps around and the bikes were found on the south side. And that`s where the girls --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I want to jump in because I want to ask Misty a question. Do you think your daughter or Elizabeth would want to go in that lake and go swimming? <snipped>

ETA - I don't know why the text turned so small... I think it happened when I added Italics before submitting post. Are you able to read it?

Yep, I can read it. I confused you...I guess I was calling the people at the lake that Tammy spoke to "fisherman". My error. She says that she got out and started asking random people (which, how many people were there?! :waitasec. Anyway...I probably combined the two stories into one theory as they happened at the same time.

Again, in these two stories, you have people who are there AT THE SAME TIME (while Tammy is there talking to them), with one of them being there a long time who says they did NOT see them (the boy fishing) and the other person (who we do NOT know how long they were there) say they DID see them. So...take it for what it's worth.

 

[foxbluff]

Yep, I can read it. I confused you...I guess I was calling the people at the lake that Tammy spoke to "fisherman". My error. She says that she got out and started asking random people (which, how many people were there?! :waitasec. Anyway...I probably combined the two stories into one theory as they happened at the same time.

Again, in these two stories, you have people who are there AT THE SAME TIME (while Tammy is there talking to them), with one of them being there a long time who says they did NOT see them (the boy fishing) and the other person (who we do NOT know how long they were there) say they DID see them. So...take it for what it's worth.

Ty for the clarification! I hope my confusion didn't "stomp all over" the time-reference-point you were making. lol

Now, onward and upward, to the subj man TB talked to (who she didn't ID as a "fisherman, stroller, cylist, jogger, etc.") who said "he had seen them." Could this man be the one that "found" the bikes at 2 p.m.? The one some of us believe is "the" jogger???

And... since TB said she gave a description of the girls and the bikes, am I the only one who thinks this man was referring to having seen the bikes on the trail rather than having seen the girls???

 

[RNER]

Yep, I can read it. I confused you...I guess I was calling the people at the lake that Tammy spoke to "fisherman". My error. She says that she got out and started asking random people (which, how many people were there?! :waitasec. Anyway...I probably combined the two stories into one theory as they happened at the same time.

Again, in these two stories, you have people who are there AT THE SAME TIME (while Tammy is there talking to them), with one of them being there a long time who says they did NOT see them (the boy fishing) and the other person (who we do NOT know how long they were there) say they DID see them. So...take it for what it's worth.

Someone correct me if I am wrong...PLEASE!!! Not a single one of these frantic family members searched the BIKE TRAIL, even after supposedly being told that the girl's were seen riding their bikes on it 15 minutes earlier???
SERIOUSLY??????????????

 

[threecrazykids]

Someone correct me if I am wrong...PLEASE!!! Not a single one of these frantic family members searched the BIKE TRAIL, even after supposedly being told that the girl's were seen riding their bikes on it 15 minutes earlier???
SERIOUSLY??????????????

No one is going to correct you on that one RNER.
We've all been wondering the same thing. If someone had just witnessed them riding the trail why wouldn't they go check all the way around the trail? Unless from where they were standing they thought they could see the whole trail? I don't know.

Maybe if they were in the parking lot, and did a quick scan of the trail (and didn't see the girls riding at that moment) assumed they weren't there.

Personally, I think most people WOULD walk around the back side of the lake if someone said they saw them riding that way, but none of us can speak for what was going through their minds at that given moment.

I'm still hung up on why or how the firemen showed up at the lake to be honest. Did Tammy call LE and say someone had told her they were there and that's what prompted them to search there?

One would think that if Tammy had been to the lake and searched, she would have said "I've been there and they aren't there...where else would they be?!"
But something brought the search crew/firefighters to the lake...a place that had already been checked, and they apparently had never been to...and the bikes were there, just not visible from where she was (I'm assuming).

I don't know. :banghead:

So, I think I've asked this before, but can't remember. Is it true that from the parking lot (where I'm going to ASSUME Tammy parked and got out and started talking to people) you can't see all the way around the lake, correct? The foliage was too thick along the fence to see the bikes were on the trail side of the fence, correct?

I agree with you RNER, I would have done a full walk around the trail if someone had said they had seen them riding down the trail to the back side of the lake...but that's just me.:twocents:

 

[foxbluff]

But that's just the nature of eyewitness reports in a complex case. Some of them are going to be wrong or mistaken.

I simply couldn't agree more! And, IMO, there have been cases in the past whereby misguided people claim to have been a witness simply to put themselves on center stage for 15 minutes of fame.

 

[RNER]

No one is going to correct you on that one RNER.
We've all been wondering the same thing. If someone had just witnessed them riding the trail why wouldn't they go check all the way around the trail? Unless from where they were standing they thought they could see the whole trail? I don't know.

Maybe if they were in the parking lot, and did a quick scan of the trail (and didn't see the girls riding at that moment) assumed they weren't there.

Personally, I think most people WOULD walk around the back side of the lake if someone said they saw them riding that way, but none of us can speak for what was going through their minds at that given moment.

I'm still hung up on why or how the firemen showed up at the lake to be honest. Did Tammy call LE and say someone had told her they were there and that's what prompted them to search there?

One would think that if Tammy had been to the lake and searched, she would have said "I've been there and they aren't there...where else would they be?!"
But something brought the search crew/firefighters to the lake...a place that had already been checked, and they apparently had never been to...and the bikes were there, just not visible from where she was (I'm assuming).

I don't know. :banghead:

So, I think I've asked this before, but can't remember. Is it true that from the parking lot (where I'm going to ASSUME Tammy parked and got out and started talking to people) you can't see all the way around the lake, correct? The foliage was too thick along the fence to see the bikes were on the trail side of the fence, correct?

I agree with you RNER, I would have done a full walk around the trail if someone had said they had seen them riding down the trail to the back side of the lake...but that's just me.:twocents:

I have been in this situation when my daughter at about the same age disappeared in a dense forrest for several hours before being found by rangers several miles from our last sighting of her. My husband and older daughter searched deep into the wilderness after someone told us they had seen her going up a deer trail. I followed the only person I saw coming from that forrest to the parking lot, to his car, and memorized everything about him and his car, including license plate...and to this day, can remember what he and his car looked like...because I was sure he would have been the last person to have seen my daughter!

It's just instinct and adrenaline when you have a missing child and you are frantically searching for them!

Of course...NOTHING about this horrible situation is natural or instinct with regard to the reactions one would expect from a family and community with a missing and murdered child!

 

[alliemay]

http://www.vpaf.uni.edu/pubsaf/police_division/index.shtml
Think the University is about 10 minutes from Evansdale, just trying to find different articles to read.

 

[Mjskit]

No one is going to correct you on that one RNER.
We've all been wondering the same thing. If someone had just witnessed them riding the trail why wouldn't they go check all the way around the trail? Unless from where they were standing they thought they could see the whole trail? I don't know.

Maybe if they were in the parking lot, and did a quick scan of the trail (and didn't see the girls riding at that moment) assumed they weren't there.

Personally, I think most people WOULD walk around the back side of the lake if someone said they saw them riding that way, but none of us can speak for what was going through their minds at that given moment.

I'm still hung up on why or how the firemen showed up at the lake to be honest. Did Tammy call LE and say someone had told her they were there and that's what prompted them to search there?

One would think that if Tammy had been to the lake and searched, she would have said "I've been there and they aren't there...where else would they be?!"
But something brought the search crew/firefighters to the lake...a place that had already been checked, and they apparently had never been to...and the bikes were there, just not visible from where she was (I'm assuming).

I don't know. :banghead:

So, I think I've asked this before, but can't remember. Is it true that from the parking lot (where I'm going to ASSUME Tammy parked and got out and started talking to people) you can't see all the way around the lake, correct? The foliage was too thick along the fence to see the bikes were on the trail side of the fence, correct?

I agree with you RNER, I would have done a full walk around the trail if someone had said they had seen them riding down the trail to the back side of the lake...but that's just me.:twocents:

I can't understand why no one walked around the lake either and also wonder why, since it was a hunch and family did not see the girls there, searchers responded to the lake. I know Heather drove to the police station to report them missing and logic tells me LE would go to her home to discuss pertinent info and collect clothing for dogs, My logic anyway. IMO

 

[Considering]

I can't understand why no one walked around the lake either and also wonder why, since it was a hunch and family did not see the girls there, searchers responded to the lake. I know Heather drove to the police station to report them missing and logic tells me LE would go to her home to discuss pertinent info and collect clothing for dogs, My logic anyway. IMO

Here's my thoughts on what may have happened. Tammy, Wylma and Kelly arrived at Meyers Lake about 2:45 pm. Tammy began asking people at the lake if they had seen the girls. At about this same time, at 2:48 pm, Heather reported the girls as missing. LE was searching the area at 2:50 pm, according to Kent Smock's timeline (Tammy reported they were at Meyers Lake by 3:00 pm as well). I would think the the family members were in contact by phone and Heather told LE that Wylma, Tammy and Kelly were at Meyers Lake or LE was told that a man at Meyers Lake told Tammy that he had "seen them" at 2:30 pm. LE went to Meyers Lake for some reason and I'm guessing it's one of those reasons - either to talk to the family or because a man reported he saw something around 2:30 pm. If two children are missing, I would hope that LE would tell the family to stay put so that they could ask them questions and so that they would not disturb any evidence if a crime had occurred. That's one reason I don't think Tammy walked around Meyers Lake - she didn't have time to go before LE arrived at 2:50 pm or before LE sent a message for her to stay put because they were in route to the lake.

 

[BunnyHop]

Somewhere down the road, it won't surprise me at all if there is an option for parents to chip their kids...given all the sickos in this world, and missing/abducted children. I mean just look at all the missing or murdered people here on WS's alone.

I don't necessarily WANT to be chipped, but then again, I have nothing to hide. Criminals and pedo's certainly aren't going to want it. Nor are people who cheat on their spouses, etc. I can think of lots of reasons people don't want to be chipped. Me? I could care less.

If it meant keeping criminals in check and also being able to locate my child as soon as they were abducted you bet your I would. JMO

Down the road when they are 18 they are more than welcome to have it removed.

Can you please explain how a GPS tracking device loses track?

 

[BunnyHop]

So...hackers break in and steal all sorts of data now. What happens when they steal your kid's GPS tracking info? :waitasec:

FYI, iphones are tracking devices.

 

[race93]

Ok, here I go. Was it simply gut that made said "gut" go to the lake? Or had "gut" talked with a "feathered friend"? Where oh where did "gut" & umm "womb" absolutely need to go in the first hour or so of the girl's not having returned home? Imo these questions are driving me nnuts...obviously!

 

[otto]

Ok, here I go. Was it simply gut that made said "gut" go to the lake? Or had "gut" talked with a "feathered friend"? Where oh where did "gut" & umm "womb" absolutely need to go in the first hour or so of the girl's not having returned home? Imo these questions are driving me nnuts...obviously!

Way back, when this first happened, there was a news comment about Lyric having asked if she was allowed to go to the lake. Tammy was more privy to what the children were up to, and she initially suggested the lake.

It's most likely that there had been talk about going to the lake, so that's where the family searched after ruling out other nearby areas.

The lake is a mile from home ... it seems like a rather logical place to search for two children on a summer day.

 

[Sere-nity]

There are a couple parks all in the 8 minute bike range.

What prompted the choice to stay at this park?

If they were last seen going one direction, knowing the park since they are locals, why wouldn't somebody go to the other side knowing that the trail exits the park. It only makes sense IMO to stay at one place if the trail went in a loop.

If TB's random person told her that they were seen riding, if I were in that situation, I wouldn't be as concerned that they were taken but rather upset that they were out way past when they were supposed to and I would continue to be actively looking for them. Calling out their names. Telling someone to go look in the neighborhood where the trail comes into the park.

Before they found the bikes, there was no evidence that they were kidnapped.

It all seems so scripted, so perfect.