IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #28

[otto]

..I totally agree with everything you said. That really is weird that since they had the dogs right there, they wouldn't have tried to track back in whatever direction the girls came from. To find out where they came from, not just where they went to after arriving at the lake. Maybe they weren't thinking that someone else could have staged the bikes,that early in the investigation. I don't know, but that's pretty odd in itself.

Police know where the children were before they were at the lake ... they were at home. The only reason to use dogs is to figure out where they went after they parked their bikes.

 

[threecrazykids]

Hi guys, I've always just lurked on this thread but since becoming a mum last month I hardly have time to jump on here and catch up so I hope you don't mind me (I know it's a pain in the butt) asking for a link or anything that may get me up to date with what's happening in the thread and the case. lease: TIA!

WELCOME! Glad you joined us! :great:

Here is a link to the Waterloo/Cedar Falls Courier which is the local newspaper that has kept a lot of timeline information about the case.

http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdale_search/

On the first page of the threads there are also links to some great info about the case, as well as (I believe) maps and archive information.

But to bring you up to speed in a few sentences:

We like to hash and re-hash the timeline, trying to make all of the sightings and accounts make sense. We also have posters who feel 100% certain it's obvious who did it, while others feel those theories are completely circumstantial only with no factual basis behind them.

You will also find that there may be references to paddle boats (swan paddle boats especially) as well as ferral hogs thrown into the mix for humor due to some of the conversations we've had trying to re-hash the theories. :floorlaugh:

I look forward to hearing your thoughts on the case! Any new eyes and theories are welcomed as no one has been arrested for the girls abduction and murder yet.

Again...WELCOME!! :great:

 

[palaminodee]

Police know where the children were before they were at the lake ... they were at home. The only reason to use dogs is to figure out where they went after they parked their bikes.

If they parked their bikes; I still am not sure that they actually rode to the lake. I agree, wish the dogs could have tracked their entire route to determine which streets they went down and did they actually bike to the lake and drop their bikes at that location.

I honestly do not know, maybe LE does?

Who lives on that route and who drove by them that day?
Or did they plan to meet someone and where??

 

[threecrazykids]

Police know where the children were before they were at the lake ... they were at home. The only reason to use dogs is to figure out where they went after they parked their bikes.

Correct...however, they didn't magically transport themselves from the Collin's home to the place their bikes were found. They took a route from Elizabeth's home to the lake, even though we aren't in the know which way that was.

I think the point of the original poster was that the dogs could have been used from the Collin's home TO the lake (or at least attempt) to see if there was a trail that indicated they indeed rode their bikes to the lake.

ASSUMING the conditions were favorable for a scent trail...if there is NO scent trail from the home to the bikes, could one deduce the bikes were picked up closer to home and then dropped at the lake? :waitasec:

If the scent dogs WERE able to pick up a scent trail from the home...they (ideally) could follow that trail all the way to the bikes...which would also show which way the girls arrived. Right now we have no idea which route the girls took considering all the different locations of reported sightings.

 

[otto]

Hi guys, I've always just lurked on this thread but since becoming a mum last month I hardly have time to jump on here and catch up so I hope you don't mind me (I know it's a pain in the butt) asking for a link or anything that may get me up to date with what's happening in the thread and the case. lease: TIA!

Congratulations with the new addition to the family!

There are so many different links at this point ... there's one with a timeline of events as they unfolded. It was discussed in the last couple of pages.

My understanding to date is that this is the timeline:

12:15 - Children at Brovan near Elizabeth's house (video)
12:30 - information that children at Brovan (probably a tip)
12:30-1:00 - information that children at Elmer/Gilbert/Arbutus (Elmer/Gilbert is entrance to Meyers Lake parking lot)
2:00 - bikes at gate per jogger (tip)
3:40 - bikes at gate per volunteer firefighter search
3:58 - bikes confirmed at gate per investigators

12:28 - cyclist at Meyers Lake parking lot per cell phone (Elmer/Gilbert)
12:30-1:00 ish - cyclist at Elmer/Gilbert heading East on Gilbert and then North on Evansdale Nature Trail to Lafayette
1:00-1:30 ish - cyclist on East end of Meyers Lake heading South across pedestrian bridge

The children's remains were found 20 miles North in a secluded area at Seven Bridges County Park on December 5.

 

[otto]

Correct...however, they didn't magically transport themselves from the Collin's home to the place their bikes were found. They took a route from Elizabeth's home to the lake, even though we aren't in the know which way that was.

I think the point of the original poster was that the dogs could have been used from the Collin's home TO the lake (or at least attempt) to see if there was a trail that indicated they indeed rode their bikes to the lake.

ASSUMING the conditions were favorable for a scent trail...if there is NO scent trail from the home to the bikes, could one deduce the bikes were picked up closer to home and then dropped at the lake? :waitasec:

If the scent dogs WERE able to pick up a scent trail from the home...they (ideally) could follow that trail all the way to the bikes...which would also show which way the girls arrived. Right now we have no idea which route the girls took considering all the different locations of reported sightings.

Police released information in September that the girls were seen at the entrance to the parking lot, and in the area of Arbutus, between 12:30 and 1:00, so it sounds like the children cycled to the park. I'm not sure how discovering the exact route they took to get to that point would help the investigation.

 

[otto]

If they parked their bikes; I still am not sure that they actually rode to the lake. I agree, wish the dogs could have tracked their entire route to determine which streets they went down and did they actually bike to the lake and drop their bikes at that location.

I honestly do not know, maybe LE does?

Who lives on that route and who drove by them that day?
Or did they plan to meet someone and where??

It's possible that they talked with someone near the entrance to the parking lot and then decided to cycle to the trail, and it's possible that they were on an adventure and cycled to the trail while someone was following them. Either way, the police timeline suggests that they got to the park and somewhere between Elmer/Gilbert/Arbutus and the SE tip of Meyers Lake, they vanished.

 

[alliemay]

Correct...however, they didn't magically transport themselves from the Collin's home to the place their bikes were found. They took a route from Elizabeth's home to the lake, even though we aren't in the know which way that was.

I think the point of the original poster was that the dogs could have been used from the Collin's home TO the lake (or at least attempt) to see if there was a trail that indicated they indeed rode their bikes to the lake.

ASSUMING the conditions were favorable for a scent trail...if there is NO scent trail from the home to the bikes, could one deduce the bikes were picked up closer to home and then dropped at the lake? :waitasec:

If the scent dogs WERE able to pick up a scent trail from the home...they (ideally) could follow that trail all the way to the bikes...which would also show which way the girls arrived. Right now we have no idea which route the girls took considering all the different locations of reported sightings.

Well said, we have witnesses that say they saw the girls near the lake, if the dogs had tracked backwards it would make those witnesses more credible. For the record I have not swayed from my thoughts that they rode to the lake and will be really surprised if I find out they didn't. Hide-site is 20/20 though. I do feel LE did the best they could in a situation they had never dealt with before.

 

[otto]

FruitTingles, as with many missing children cases, this case seems to have two possibilities:
1. the family is responsible
2. stranger abduction

Stranger abduction is difficult to accept because there is no obvious suspect. It's a bit of a void, a big black hole. It's easier to look at people that knew the children and scrutinize them for possible involvement in the abduction and murder. In my opinion, this is a random, opportunistic abduction by a sexual predator that did everything possible to get away with the murders.

 

[threecrazykids]

Police released information in September that the girls were seen at the entrance to the parking lot, and in the area of Arbutus, between 12:30 and 1:00, so it sounds like the children cycled to the park. I'm not sure how discovering the exact route they took to get to that point would help the investigation.

Knowing which route they took could possibly identify people/places they would have passed en route (SO's maybe or a friends house they possibly stopped at).

Also obtaining additional video footage showing the girls still alive at a particular time could have possibly been obtained (and they very well could have this...we just don't know).

 

[tlcya]

Police released information in September that the girls were seen at the entrance to the parking lot, and in the area of Arbutus, between 12:30 and 1:00, so it sounds like the children cycled to the park. I'm not sure how discovering the exact route they took to get to that point would help the investigation.

Since the who and the why of the girls' kidnapping is still unknown, knowing the route they took could be very relevant. If they were victims of a predator that predator may have encountered or begun watching them along that route. So IMO, knowing the route they took could be very useful to the investigation.

 

[cindersoot]

FruitTingles, as with many missing children cases, this case seems to have two possibilities:
1. the family is responsible
2. stranger abduction

Stranger abduction is difficult to accept because there is no obvious suspect. It's a bit of a void, a big black hole. It's easier to look at people that knew the children and scrutinize them for possible involvement in the abduction and murder. In my opinion, this is a random, opportunistic abduction by a sexual predator that did everything possible to get away with the murders.

:rocker:

 

[cindersoot]

Found out some interesting info in my research. I might need some help with this. The bike trail has a bridge that was under construction in July, so there is no way a cyclist could ride the distance from point A to point B without crossing that bridge. But they couldn't because the bridge was out.

 

[Unique444]

Where is the Campground in conjunction to the park?

 

[cindersoot]

Black Hawk county sheriff Tony Thompson said in an interview shortly after the bodies on Elizabeth Collins and Lyric Cook were found that, "It could take several weeks for their autopsies to be complete and the results made to the public".

The only results that were made public were the fact that the bodies were indeed the girls. But, we already knew that. Heather and Drew said they didn't want to know how the girls died. I wonder if that's why we get zero info?

 

[threecrazykids]

Found out some interesting info in my research. I might need some help with this. The bike trail has a bridge that was under construction in July, so there is no way a cyclist could ride the distance from point A to point B without crossing that bridge. But they couldn't because the bridge was out.

Uh oh.:notgood:

 

[threecrazykids]

Black Hawk county sheriff Tony Thompson said in an interview shortly after the bodies on Elizabeth Collins and Lyric Cook were found that, "It could take several weeks for their autopsies to be complete and the results made to the public".

The only results that were made public were the fact that the bodies were indeed the girls. But, we already knew that. Heather and Drew said they didn't want to know how the girls died. I wonder if that's why we get zero info?

Could be...however, Misty (in one report) had stated that she DID want to know the details behind her daughter's murder. I'm not sure how LE will handle it IF the details are ever allowed to be released.

 

[cindersoot]

Uh oh.:notgood:

But....I need some help figuring this out. One article says the Cedar bridge was out due to flooding one year but was repaired in May 2011, but there was another bridge by the depot, I think that was under construction.

 

[cindersoot]

Could be...however, Misty (in one report) had stated that she DID want to know the details behind her daughter's murder. I'm not sure how LE will handle it IF the details are ever allowed to be released.

I understand why they are keeping a zipped lip now, but after the case has been solved, then I would think it would be the public's right to know.

 

[threecrazykids]

I was just looking at road conditions throughout the state and came across this...I hadn't seen this before!

http://www.iowadot.gov/i380/

It pulls up live cameras at different locations...and it appears there is one at River Road right by the lake! Too bad there wasn't zooming capabilities! :floorlaugh: But it looks like there are a couple not far from Meyer's Lake. Ugh, I wish they were positioned to actually have caught something! ETA:If you click below the video feed you can see all the cameras that are live at any given time.