IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #3

[GrainneDhu]

"We have no reason to believe there was any foul play at this time," he said. "Everyone is suspect until we find something." (Adden)

http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Lake-landfill-searched-for-missing-Iowa-cousins-3716341.php#photo-3205231

No reason to believe there was any foul play means one of three things too me.

1) LE believes the girls died accidentally either as a result of their own activities ie. swimming where they shouldn't, exploring, etc. or

2) Something happened while in the care of a family member and there has been an elaborate, coordinated effort by those involved to cover things up.

3) The girls are being held by an unknown party for reasons yet to be determined.

His statement that "Everyone is a suspect until we find something" means (jmho) they have NOTHING conclusive arising from any polygraphs or forensics. I wonder if this also means that although family members have given alibis, LE is still considering them to be suspects - guilty until proven otherwise ?

As for whether LE thinks the family are suspects, there is this article:

http://wcfcourier.com/news/local/ly...128-11e1-af57-0019bb2963f4.html#ixzz211pWN7rz

Cook said officials also took a computer from her home --- she said it hadn't been used since late last year --- and searched her attic Wednesday. Abben would not confirm the search or seizure, but said that they had no reason to believe that any members of the family are a suspect in the case.

 

[LucyOso]

I really don't think the parents are involved, but perhaps IF there was a lack of supervision it would put the girls, or one of them anyway, more at risk. I don't know what to think. I hope they find some evidence when they drain the lake.

I agee. I do not like to see the world assume parents are guilty of some horrific crime just because they lead lifestyles out of the norm. I think it is easy to criticize people with rough pasts and lay blame...but...when we focus on people, though different from our "ideals", we often lose sight of the objective and global perspective of the case. Yes, the parents had issues...but...focusing on them is NOT getting the girls home, nor is narrowing in on them assisting with the whole situation...

 

[debirlfan]

I didn't see JVM tonight, but from what was posted I gather that Lyric has a good relationship with her father but has limited contact with him?

If that's the case, then perhaps a "friend" of the father (someone who might have been introduced to Lyric as a friend, but was actually perhaps a drug contact) contacts her and tells her that he's going to meet her and take her to see dad, but it has to be done secretly because it's outside of dad's visitation schedule. The individual says to meet them on the path by the lake. Given the court dates and all, it sounds as if the father may be going back to jail, and if so, Lyric may have wanted to spend time with him first. It's possible that she tried to go off alone, but Elizabeth insisted on going with her.

This scenario could fit for someone using the girls as leverage/for retribution, it could be a pedo/druggie, or even a druggie desperate enough for money that they planned to sell the girls off.

It is even possible that the last time she disappeared, she might have been with her father. Him telling the mother to call the cops (then telling Lyric to hurry home) would have been a good way to throw suspicion off of her having been there, if indeed she wasn't supposed to be. If someone knew that she had snuck over there once, it would have been easy to lure her into thinking she was going to see him again.

 

[cluciano63]

LE talks about "suspects" and "no foul play" at the same time, basically...why would there be suspects, if there is no foul play? Very confusing...

 

[GrainneDhu]

I believe the LE spokesman said the bikes had been "processed." From what I understand, also, they had been moved by the time he arrived on the scene. The garage, I probably wouldn't bother with it. Unless these are the worst investigators in the history of police work, that garage has been covered. The bikes would be the most-obvious place I'd look, at least for prints. That pump house area, as well. The fences? The gate in the fences? The latch on that gate? Obviously tainted now.

The problem, as I see it, is that LE seems unwilling to consider abduction a possibility. Didn't he say they "didn't believe foul play was involved?" Well, the investigation has shown that, and they seem to have yet to give the idea serious merit in public statements. However, everything they are doing, other than draining the lake, points towards them assuming foul play is involved. Unless they think the girls willingly are still hiding somewhere in someone's basement or car, or climbed into someone in Evansdale's trash. I just think they know something they are hesitant to alarm this small community about.

I've been haunted by this thought all along, that the girls were not abducted at the lake, but rather the bikes were just hurriedly dumped there. The tire tracks, the placement of the bikes and the discarded purse/phone, the timeline, the dogs, and now some freaky commenter/psychic on the internet, all point to it. But Occam's Razor points directly at someone luring these girls away from their bikes right there at the lake and the woods (well, actually that pointed in the lake), which is growing ever less likely. Either way, those woods seem to hold the key, and if so, someone who knew those woods well is involved.

There've just been too many attempted abductions in Iowa so far this spring/summer for LE to expect people to ignore that idea. It baffles me that they seem to be saying, in public, that they think the girls ran away or are lost, while behind the scenes are accusing a father and searching the landfill.

For the record, the lake is now receded several feet from the original shoreline. I've not seen nor heard of footprints in what would have been deep, thick mud there, for several feet out from the bank, nor any other evidence, despite two kayakers continuously circling the ever-shrinking shoreline.

Ollipop, I don't know if you remember the Johnny Gosch disappearance.

After Johnny disappeared, The Des Moines Register asked LE if this meant they should change their policies on the minimum age for carriers. Police at the time said no need to, so The Register didn't.

Two years later, Eugene Martin disappeared under almost identical circumstances. I don't think the paper bothered to ask the police, they just changed their age policy. I remember because my brother was a carrier and lost his route because of the change (he was highly disgusted and said he could handle anyone who came after him... of course).

It's not just Iowa LE that seems to have a "don't frighten the people" policy. I can't begin to count the number of cases from all over the US and Canada where LE didn't say a word of warning or actually denied there was anything to worry about.

For example, it took years of community pressure before LE in Vancouver admitted that maybe, just maybe, there was an unusual number of prostituted women missing. Like, over fifty.

 

[Ollipop]

I also don't think the parents are involved...that they know of.

But it paints a picture of the type of people who, perhaps, had access to the girls, that possibly at least one set of parents may not fully remember for whatever reason. Minds get clouded, memories blurred, etc.

I'm curious as to LE's plan if/when the empty lake turns up nothing. What then? How do you then explain to this town/area that there may have been things you could have done earlier that you didn't because you were adamant that the girls were missing of their own accord? You had the volunteer help available and more than willing to canvas literally the entire town, not just the wooded areas but yards, sheds, garages, etc, but you told them to stay home, that you would search on your own. Then you found nothing.

I suppose my sleepiness and frustration is showing. I know they (LE) want the girls home as badly as do we, and probably realize there were things they could/would have done differently if they'd approached it as an abduction from the get-go.

 

[GrainneDhu]

If you google the name, you will see that this screen name admittedly posts when he/she is bored. This person has also posted that he/she lives in Pennsylvania.

Couldn't hurt for LE to give them a call.

And it might even improve their posting behaviour. <snicker>

 

[Ollipop]

LE talks about "suspects" and "no foul play" at the same time, basically...why would there be suspects, if there is no foul play? Very confusing...

I tried to hit on this earlier as well. If they don't suspect foul play, why search the landfill? Do they think the girls hid in a trash bin?

It just seems like LE is intentionally holding back. I'm not experienced in this arena, is that normal?

 

[LucyOso]

Okay I called the tip line to notify them about the comment...they said someone had just called in to let them know. So at least they are aware...better safe than sorry!

What tip? These posts happen faster then I can read....LOL

 

[cluciano63]

I tried to hit on this earlier as well. If they don't suspect foul play, why search the landfill? Do they think the girls hid in a trash bin?

It just seems like LE is intentionally holding back. I'm not experienced in this arena, is that normal?

I hope they are covering all possibilities...abduction, lost, in the lake, family involvement, etc...which it sounds to me like they are, if a little late as far as gathering evidence from the home. I know locals said there are almost no video cameras in town, so they won't have that to help them.

 

[CHERIE.T]

http://www.wausaudailyherald.com/vi...Iowa-girls?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE

Trash separated in search for missing iowa cousins (3hrs ago)

I'm going to take a wild guess here eace: and say there's a reason trash was separated and searched. Im trying to get this straight.....LE wants citizens to believe the girls could be in the lake yet they want trash searched......LE IMO is saying one thing while thinking another.

 

[Pensfan]

Couldn't hurt for LE to give them a call.

And it might even improve their posting behaviour. <snicker>

ITA Providing false tips that LE must spend time to investigate is evil.

 

[LucyOso]

I'm going to take a wild guess here eace: and say there's a reason trash was separated and searched. Im trying to get this straight.....LE wants citizens to believe the girls could be in the lake yet they want trash searched......LE IMO is saying one thing while thinking another.

I think that normal. I know in many places they incinerate the trash at the landfill. Just means they are not so confident the girls are in the lake and do not want to mess anything up.

 

[Ollipop]

Ollipop, I don't know if you remember the Johnny Gosch disappearance.

After Johnny disappeared, The Des Moines Register asked LE if this meant they should change their policies on the minimum age for carriers. Police at the time said no need to, so The Register didn't.

Two years later, Eugene Martin disappeared under almost identical circumstances. I don't think the paper bothered to ask the police, they just changed their age policy. I remember because my brother was a carrier and lost his route because of the change (he was highly disgusted and said he could handle anyone who came after him... of course).

It's not just Iowa LE that seems to have a "don't frighten the people" policy. I can't begin to count the number of cases from all over the US and Canada where LE didn't say a word of warning or actually denied there was anything to worry about.

For example, it took years of community pressure before LE in Vancouver admitted that maybe, just maybe, there was an unusual number of prostituted women missing. Like, over fifty.

To say I remember Johnny Gosch would be putting it lightly. I was a carrier for the Mason City Globe Gazette at the time. It was intense. We got whistles and flashlights, new bags with reflective fabrics, were taught how to handle seeing strange people and/or vehicles on our routes. Later, I took over an overlapping Des Moines Register route, simultaneously. Then Eugene Martin disappeared. Needless to say, my mother was none-too-happy with my occupational choices at that young age. I was two years younger than JG.

Several years ago, I came across his mother Noreen's book in a bookstore. After page 1, I was enthralled. Read it cover to cover that day in the bookstore. She'd gone deep end by then, most had thought. But to this day, she holds with her story, that she'd received proof he was abducted into a very organized, powerful pedo ring right here in the US. I believe she thought it was based in Omaha, iirc...maybe Lincoln, NE. She claims Johnny came home one night, gave her a brief synopsis of his life thus far, then disappeared because he knew he could never live a normal life. I believe she thought he was not alone and being controlled even then. IIRC, he mentioned people in power, people with much to lose if this 'ring' were exposed. I have since watched a documentary - cannot remember where or the title - that backed many of her claims up.

During the Sandusky arrest and coverage, I remember hearing of a prosecutor in NE, I believe, who'd attempted to go after this group, and just went missing, etc, etc.

I saw that she had made some comments to the DSM Register about this case, and how difficult it was for her to hear of kids going missing and that it led her down the same emotional paths as when Johnny went missing.

I suppose my point is...yes, I remember it, lol.

 

[GrainneDhu]

I tried to hit on this earlier as well. If they don't suspect foul play, why search the landfill? Do they think the girls hid in a trash bin?

It just seems like LE is intentionally holding back. I'm not experienced in this arena, is that normal?

You used the image earlier to describe Iowans as being like ducks on the water.

LE is like that only more so.

In most cases without direct evidence of foul play, LE almost universally seems to play it safe by refusing to say what they think happened. In good part, I think it's because they don't want the possible perpetrator(s) to get a clear view of what is going on with the investigation.

I think that LE is working a whole bunch of different possible lines of inquiry right now. I don't think they're at the point of narrowing down the suspect pool, they're still at the point of throwing more names into it.

They're clearly still conducting searches but not the kind of search that can be delegated to volunteers.

To give one example, since meth use has been connected to one of the families, I'm sure they are looking at all those possible angles. Searching the property of a meth dealer is definitely something you can't delegate to a volunteer, not even just walking by and looking at what might be seen from the sidewalk.

 

[Ollipop]

And if I'm not mistaken, before Johnny Gosch, police would wait up to 72 hours before they even considered a child missing.

I wonder if it isn't something ingrained in the minds of LE, that they are keeping people safe, and so when the worst of things occur that they didn't see coming or can't find answers to, they find it difficult to accept. Of course, no two LE officers are the same, but the overall mentality of the type of person who follows that course in life maybe needs the comfort of feeling in control.

 

[mrsu]

That was my thought, way too detailed for the typical psychic. I'm wondering if they heard something from word of mouth but are afraid to go to LE directly?

Sounds like someone describing the guy they caught impersonating an officer in the other town.

-black suv
-moustache

 

[GrainneDhu]

ITA Providing false tips that LE must spend time to investigate is evil.

I just have this image of a 17 year old still living at home with unsupervised computer access.

Then comes the knock on the front door...

Hope the kid has clean laundry!

 

[WholeLottaRosie]

Keep in mind that we're talking about a minimum of 3 different households (the Collins, Misty Cook and her mother Wylma, Dan Morrissey and his mother Vicky Weikert; I may not have all the names spelled correctly). Four if you include sister Tammy.

The person who said her computer had not been used in over a year is Wylma Cook, who looks to be in her late 60s or 70s.

She didn't say none of the family had computers and internet access. Just that her particular computer hasn't been used recently.

Statistically, the age group least likely to use computers are those over 65 years old.

Maybe I don't have a working hinky meter but it just doesn't seem unbelievable to me that someone in her late 60s or 70s wouldn't use a computer.

I thought I read somewhere Srs. are the fastest growing group of Net users or something. I know my 82 yr old Mother and her siblings and friends are all over it. I constantly have to go over and "fix" something as she clicks some thing in her settings that keeps her from doing something. And can't follow directions over the phone. But, gosh they love their FB. At least now she puts things on my FB all day and quit sending me email forwards. LOL

 

[BelieveinUFO]

hey Ollipop, did you not say you were related to one of the victims family?