IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #30

[Squeeze]

If it was me, I would be in their face too. Just saying.
I would contact all local media then some. :rocker:

But I could see the media asking what the story is... I mean, we all know most of the details, and if someone went to the media, yes, they might do one story, but after that, what is the news story?

 

[BunnyHop]

The FBI is always involved in kidnappings.

Was this a kidnapping? Do you have a link? TIA.

 

[Marilynilpa]

We don't know that they havent, just that they haven't done it publicly. I could see Aunt Tammy or Grandma or even Misty calling every day or two. Maybe even Drew is. But it seems that most of the family has been "spanked" by the public whenever they're in the news, so maybe they are being more active behind the scenes. We don't know that they aren't.

It seems to me that Misty has learner her lesson and is now living her life out of the public eye as much as possible.

And speaking of assumptions, we have no way of knowing what evidence they have. I keep reading comments that state there is no evidence, no trace, etc. Again, we dont know that. We aren't privvy to all of the evidence they've collected. They aren't going to divulge everything.

I, for one, have never commented on LE not having any evidence. Obviously we have no idea what was gathered at 7 Bridges, or even at Meyers Lake, for that matter.

As for the family, maybe you're right and they follow up with LE on a regular basis for updates.

It frustrates me that there are so many appeals for donations for the Angels Park Memorial Island, but no recent public appeals for the killer(s) of these girls to be brought to justice. JMO.

 

[Reverie]

The family has publicly stated, within a few days of the abduction, that they are waiting for answers. They're still waiting. Do they need to repeat that statement for people to believe that it is true?[/QUOTE]

IMO...uh, yeah they do.

They have no problems going out in public promoting fundraisers, concerts, donations...I DO expect them to at least mention somewhere along the way that they want answers and justice brought to the people who killed their daughter.

I don't know about anyone else, but there certainly doesn't seem to be too many people on this board that are convinced that this family REALLY wants to find who did this and bring them to justice.

One mention of wanting answers within days of their abduction does NOT equate to the parents continuing to pursue answers and justice.

If they have time to promote the memorial, they have time to remind and ask people to continue to come forward with any possible leads, answers, etc.

They CHOOSE the content of their PR appearances, and no mention of the pursuit of justice in all their donation requests concerns me.

:goodpost: TCK! :rocker: :moo:

 

[eileenhawkeye]

I just can't wrap my head around forgiving the killer before you even know who he is. You don't even know the COD. What if the killer is arrested, and then at the trial, he shows no remorse for what he did? What if he seems to get a "thrill" out of hearing all the details described again? I thought you had to ask for forgiveness, before you are actually granted it. To just forgive the killer without knowing who he is, what exactly he did to Elizabeth, and whether the killer is even sorry for what he did seems odd. The killer has not suffered any consequences for what he did, yet you forgive him. Okay.

 

[BunnyHop]

But I could see the media asking what the story is... I mean, we all know most of the details, and if someone went to the media, yes, they might do one story, but after that, what is the news story?

I would be in their face

 

[Marilynilpa]

Was this a kidnapping? Do you have a link? TIA.

I think kidnapping and abduction can be used interchangeably.

http://kidnapping.uslegal.com/kidnapping-v-abduction/

Are you thinking there was no kidnapping/abduction?

 

[cindersoot]

No. Why?

Because when I was in Evansdale this last time, I walked Maiden lane and picked up a large green Cabela bag, I finally looked at it more closely today and noticed weeds had grown thru some of the holes in it's plastic. So Im confident that bag was there last summer. I looked for a receipt inside, there wasn't one. I know hunters shop at Cabelas, so it sparked my interest.

 

[Bootsctr]

I don't know about them trusting in God to punish those responsible, as it seems they forgive the perp but also want them to be punished here on Earth:

The family has said that they forgive Elizabeth’s killer, but they still want the perpetrator to face punishment.

“I can forgive someone and Heather can forgive someone, but they still have to meet justice,” Drew Collins said. “One doesn’t have anything to do with the other. They have to be punished for what they’ve done.

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/ar...eth-Collins-family-focuses-life-not-her-death

In addition, both Drew and Heather are advocating the return of the death penalty in Iowa.

I think I read that got shot down. Can't remember where I read it now. Will look for link. Might have been at Cranky's. . .

 

[Marilynilpa]

Can you expound on this? :blushing:

There are a couple of posts upthread where she explains her comment.

 

[Marilynilpa]

I think I read that got shot down. Can't remember where I read it now. Will look for link. Might have been at Cranky's. . .

Thanks - the most recent thing I could find was this article from a couple of weeks ago:

Iowa remains one of the 17 states without the death penalty; however, this quality of Iowa could change with a new bill that has been introduced by Sen. Kent Sorenson.

http://www.iowastatedaily.com/news/article_46a173c4-8765-11e2-82dd-0019bb2963f4.html

 

[eileenhawkeye]

I would be in their face

How many weeks is the local media going to air the family's daily press conference when they aren't saying something new? "Just find the killer". You can say you would be in their face, but you don't have control over the media. Look at Kyron Horman's case. His case was in the Portland media daily for like 3 months but after that, it's only brought up when something new happens, which is not that often. The media is the ones who ultimately decide how much coverage a case gets, and for how long. Heck, it's pretty rare for a case to get daily local coverage for a month.

 

[Marilynilpa]

I just can't wrap my head around forgiving the killer before you even know who he is. You don't even know the COD. What if the killer is arrested, and then at the trial, he shows no remorse for what he did? What if he seems to get a "thrill" out of hearing all the details described again? I thought you had to ask for forgiveness, before you are actually granted it. To just forgive the killer without knowing who he is, what exactly he did to Elizabeth, and whether the killer is even sorry for what he did seems odd. The killer has not suffered any consequences for what he did, yet you forgive him. Okay.

This is what I have trouble with, also.

My faith, which admittedly can be shaky at times, certainly isn't strong enough for me to offer forgiveness to the unknown murderer of my child. JMO.

I have read of family members who have forgiven a murderer after trial and conviction. But that's different, IMO.

 

[BunnyHop]

I think kidnapping and abduction can be used interchangeably.

http://kidnapping.uslegal.com/kidnapping-v-abduction/

Are you thinking there was no kidnapping/abduction?

Sorry going Ot to Boston. :twocents:

 

[BunnyHop]

How many weeks is the local media going to air the family's daily press conference when they aren't saying something new? "Just find the killer". You can say you would be in their face, but you don't have control over the media. Look at Kyron Horman's case. His case was in the Portland media daily for like 3 months but after that, it's only brought up when something new happens, which is not that often. The media is the ones who ultimately decide how much coverage a case gets, and for how long. Heck, it's pretty rare for a case to get daily local coverage for a month.

Personally, I wouldn't be looking for daily coverage, weekly perhaps. :blushing:

Back to boston, :seeya:

 

[roseofsharon]

Because when I was in Evansdale this last time, I walked Maiden lane and picked up a large green Cabela bag, I finally looked at it more closely today and noticed weeds had grown thru some of the holes in it's plastic. So Im confident that bag was there last summer. I looked for a receipt inside, there wasn't one. I know hunters shop at Cabelas, so it sparked my interest.

There is one in Prairie du Chien Cinder, according to the Cabela's website under locate stores. Sorry, I didn't check mileage from Waterloo though.:seeya:

 

[SapphireSteel]

when morgan harrington was abducted/murdered, her mother said: No one starts their criminal career with an abduction/murder. Dna was matched to an earlier assault on a woman, so her mother was right. It makes sense, as well.).

Ted Bundy, BTK, the Green River Killer, Dahmer, Jason Downie, all started this way.

there has been no arrest in either case. Because morgan's father is a medical doctor and her mother is a nurse, no one would ever suggest that morgan's parents had something to do with her murder.).

Isabel Celis's parents both work in medicine and both have been subject to suspicion...the reason being, as in this case, there is a general perception that the family's reaction seems "off", and that they have shown a degree of conflict and uncooperation with LE and the investigation. This could be construed as a red flag.

if her parents were drug addicts, people would suggest that they were connected with the murder ... But that would be a wild, unsupported connection.).

At this stage no one knows who is connected, especially us here on WS, so we cannot state if it is a "wild, unsupported" connection or not, nor will we be able to until an arrest is made. :dunno:

here we have a double abduction/murder. No one starts their criminal career with a double abduction/murder. Therefore, the person that did this must have prior criminal acts. That does not mean that the murderer has a criminal record.

Opening someone else's mail is a "criminal act" so's driving without a seatbelt and jaywalking -, it's safe to say most adults have committed a "criminal act" at some point in their life, even unknowingly.

The person responsible for abducting and murdering the children had a reason to be in evansdale on july 13. That person lives in evansdale, lives in the surrounding areas, or is familiar with evansdale and surrounding areas due to having spent time there in the past. all this talk about trying to connect the murderer with the family bewilders me. ).

This statement bewilders me - Evansdale is a small town. The likliehood is that there is some sort of connection with the family, if the perp lives in Evansdale, whether it's their dog groomer's son or their neighbour's grandma's neighbour, a guy at the local service station or a city worker that Drew has come across through work. We know that statistically at least, the girls are most likely to be familiar to their abductor..:waitasec:

first, fingers were pointed at dan because he is a drug addict. Misty fell under that same umbrella. Today, given that there is some criticism about the planning of the memorial, we have fingers pointed at drew and his tree business. ).

Some "pointed the finger" at a certain cyclist, just because they knew his name. We all know family are the first ones investigated, and I haven't heard anyone's been definitively "ruled out" so far. It seems purely arbitrary when "sleuthing" becomes "pointing the finger". :banghead:

it's understandable that there is frustration due to the fact that there is no identifiable suspect, but pointing fingers at the victims

The only ones we can all agree are victims right now, are Elizabeth and Lyric.

- simply because they are easy targets

Their chosen lifestyle has increased the risk to their children. Lyric at least was regarded as an "endangered child" right from the word go, due to her parent's antics. Neither parent used the shock of their daughter's disappearance to "go clean" or stay clean, both committed crimes during and after the girls vanishing - they carried on as usual, in other words. They are "easy targets" because they can't keep away from the firing range.

- doesn't make sense. The family members are not considered suspects because they don't fit with the facts of the abduction murder.

The only "facts" we have confirmed is the girls were last seen at 12.15 on Brovan, bodies found in December at 7 bridges, and their bikes were found at 3.50 on the day at the lake. Nothing else has been made public or confirmed by LE?.:dunno:

Smock made a media statement on april 11, 2013, warning the community that strangers are dangerous, citing the abduction/murder of lyric and elizabeth as an example of how "stranger danger" can even happen in evansdale. ).

He did not warn of a "predator in our community" which is either borderline incompetent (considering everyone agrees the perp lives in/visits Evansdale) or he knows something we don't.

we may not see another abduction/murder of two children in evansdale this coming summer, but i expect that there will be another abduction/murder by the perp. It could be 100 miles away, it could be 20 miles away, but i do think that it will happen again. It may happen to a teenager where there is an assumption that the teen is a runaway ... Meaning the investigation will not be as thorough. ).

I disagree with this, LE here at least put 100% into all missing persons no matter if they are repeat runaways (it usually means they find them, as occurs in most missing persons cases).

this perp knows what he's doing and will most likely mix it up next time to avoid detection and avoid being connected with this abduction/murder (in the event that there is an arrest).

Some think LE are fumbling around like the Keystone Cops and have absolutely no clue - but I'm not one of them. I don't watch CSI, and don't expect it all to be tied up with a pretty bow in under 60 minutes. Real life investigations don't work that way, even when there is a clear and obvious suspect (Josh and Susan Powell, Casey Anthony, I can go on).

The language LE uses is so soft it indicates to me that they are not worried about a repeat crime. The communications they have with the press are so generic and hollow, I do not detect a sense of alarm or urgency or increased concern even. The only explanation I can see for this is, LE know who the perp is and are still trying to gather evidence.

FWIW my opinion is this perp is a convicted felon, has a long history of crimes and arrests and jail time, but possibly not for violent crime. I don't even think the girls were touched, personally, just let go and shot while running, by a coward with a weak stomach. :cow:

 

[Marilynilpa]

There is one in Prairie du Chien Cinder, according to the Cabela's website under locate stores. Sorry, I didn't check mileage from Waterloo though.:seeya:

Per Google, it is 1 hour 48 minutes away.

 

[Fukiyama]

I don't know about them trusting in God to punish those responsible, as it seems they forgive the perp but also want them to be punished here on Earth:

The family has said that they forgive Elizabeth’s killer, but they still want the perpetrator to face punishment.

“I can forgive someone and Heather can forgive someone, but they still have to meet justice,” Drew Collins said. “One doesn’t have anything to do with the other. They have to be punished for what they’ve done.

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/ar...eth-Collins-family-focuses-life-not-her-death

In addition, both Drew and Heather are advocating the return of the death penalty in Iowa.

And this is in reply to Sapphire too:

I have seen the comments from Heather about how Elizabeth is in heaven and the comments about hoping for 'punishment' for the killer, but also forgiving him/her. I'm not interested in any of Drew's comments. I just want to know specifically if Heather has mentioned any kind of expectation of divine punishment for the perpetrator.

Because you know, eternal damnation a lot worse than prison or the chair.

A link would be awesome. Thank you.

 

[roseofsharon]

Ted Bundy, BTK, the Green River Killer, Dahmer, Jason Downie, all started this way.

Isabel Celis's parents both work in medicine and both have been subject to suspicion...the reason being, as in this case, there is a general perception that the family's reaction seems "off", and that they have shown a degree of conflict and uncooperation with LE and the investigation. This could be construed as a red flag.


At this stage no one knows who is connected, especially us here on WS, so we cannot state if it is a "wild, unsupported" connection or not, nor will we be able to until an arrest is made. :dunno:


Opening someone else's mail is a "criminal act" so's driving without a seatbelt and jaywalking -, it's safe to say most adults have committed a "criminal act" at some point in their life, even unknowingly.



This statement bewilders me - Evansdale is a small town. The likliehood is that there is some sort of connection with the family, if the perp lives in Evansdale, whether it's their dog groomer's son or their neighbour's grandma's neighbour, a guy at the local service station or a city worker that Drew has come across through work. We know that statistically at least, the girls are most likely to be familiar to their abductor..:waitasec:

Some "pointed the finger" at a certain cyclist, just because they knew his name. We all know family are the first ones investigated, and I haven't heard anyone's been definitively "ruled out" so far. It seems purely arbitrary when "sleuthing" becomes "pointing the finger". :banghead:
The only ones we can all agree are victims right now, are Elizabeth and Lyric.
Their chosen lifestyle has increased the risk to their children. Lyric at least was regarded as an "endangered child" right from the word go, due to her parent's antics. Neither parent used the shock of their daughter's disappearance to "go clean" or stay clean, both committed crimes during and after the girls vanishing - they carried on as usual, in other words. They are "easy targets" because they can't keep away from the firing range.


The only "facts" we have confirmed is the girls were last seen at 12.15 on Brovan, bodies found in December at 7 bridges, and their bikes were found at 3.50 on the day at the lake. Nothing else has been made public or confirmed by LE?.:dunno:
He did not warn of a "predator in our community" which is either borderline incompetent (considering everyone agrees the perp lives in/visits Evansdale) or he knows something we don't.
I disagree with this, LE here at least put 100% into all missing persons no matter if they are repeat runaways (it usually means they find them, as occurs in most missing persons cases).


Some think LE are fumbling around like the Keystone Cops and have absolutely no clue - but I'm not one of them. I don't watch CSI, and don't expect it all to be tied up with a pretty bow in under 60 minutes. Real life investigations don't work that way, even when there is a clear and obvious suspect (Josh and Susan Powell, Casey Anthony, I can go on).

The language LE uses is so soft it indicates to me that they are not worried about a repeat crime. The communications they have with the press are so generic and hollow, I do not detect a sense of alarm or urgency or increased concern even. The only explanation I can see for this is, LE know who the perp is and are still trying to gather evidence.

FWIW my opinion is this perp is a convicted felon, has a long history of crimes and arrests and jail time, but possibly not for violent crime. I don't even think the girls were touched, personally, just let go and shot while running, by a coward with a weak stomach. :cow:

The only thing I question is if LE know who the perp is, why wouldn't they at the very least, bring this person in for questioning.

If this is the case, I hope LE has someone watching this person 24/7 :what:

imo