IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #30

[Marilynilpa]

I think "a very unique situation" could also be words chosen to reference the fact that things like this have not been commonplace to Evansdale.

I also think it's possible that he could be revealing they have had some kind of indication that the girls were targeted specifically, and not children in the community, in general.

I wish I knew.

You could be right. Any kind of child abduction/murder is "unique", so a double abduction/murder would be a very unique situation.

I agree with you that Smock might have been indicating the girls were targeted specifically.

He's telling parents to do what all parent should do, which is warn their children of stranger danger. But there doesn't seem to be any sense of urgency re: protecting children from a killer still on the loose. JMO.

 

[Bootsctr]

I hope I don't get in trouble for asking this, but it's something that I feel compelled to ask,point out, whatever you want to call it.

What's everyone's thoughts on this HYPOTHETICAL situation?

If LE thought an arrest was on the horizon, or was building a case against someone, and that person was going to be a member of the family, do you think LE would have stepped in to intervene (behind the scenes) in the progression of the park renovation/memorial?

I just can't help but think how furious I would be as a member of the community if I found out that I'd donated money,time, and supported this family in promoting concerts, complete park renovations that will cost hundreds of thousands of dollars, etc. only to find out they knew all along that the family was involved.

I can tell you my town would be in a complete uproar. We are a town of about 2500 people, and small towns can either be your best friend or your worst enemy.

I don't think anyone in LE would feel that these girls don't deserve a memorial. That's not the case. But I think it would be a very tough call (on a personal and emotional level) to sit back and know that the people of YOUR town are contributing to such a great cause...only to find out possibly years down the road that their support (financial or otherwise) was in vain.

I don't even know that it would be possible for LE to do anything. I just wonder how you feel they would/could handle a situation like that.

Personally I'm still on the fence. Part of me thinks someone would step in and say "no way...we can't let this happen". The other part of me thinks LE would sit back with their hands tied and mouth shut thinking "this is going to be a NIGHTMARE when we make an arrest".

:seeya: Hi 3CK! I too have thought about such a HYPOTHETICAL situation. In reading some of the early articles at Cranky Crankerson's, after the girls' bodies had been discovered, it was Kent Smock who told the families of a fund that was available if the families needed help with burial expenses for the girls. The fund was named in the article. I don't have the link handy but like I said I read it here: http://s296.beta.photobucket.com/us...y -IA-?&_suid=135712632459807843590297720956

That was a good thing for Mr. Smock to do for the families and I believe he reached out to both Elizabeth and Lyric's families about the fund. In fact, I believe it ultimately led to the "Angels Island Memorial" and the foundation behind that project. I believe obviously someone at some point said, look at all the monies people are giving for your girls, you have the ability to do something really amazing in the community in memory of the girls. IMO, one family is being left out of the planning and to me that is really sad, but the situation is what it is.

Hypothetically speaking, if LE felt a family member was involved and were building a case against hypothetical family member, would they feel responsible for maybe alerting the public that "HEY this situation is "unique" and maybe not a random abduction for sexual motive, but could involve the family? IMO, No.

Kent Smock's recent statement to me says they really do think it was an abduction. They cannot say otherwise, because they DO NOT KNOW. If they have suspicion hypothetically about a family member or members being involved, I don't think they can prove it without a confession. I don't think DNA would help at all if hypothetical family member or members were involved.

Hypothetically, I think a suspected family member could have already been offered a plea deal to kidnapping and uintentional homicide for 50 years or plead guilty to let's say random drug charges for example. I believe hypothetical family member would plead guilty to drug charges that could lead to 325 (?) years behind bars rather than plead guilty to having anything to do with the death of Lyric and Elizabeth because even in a 1,000 years he's not going to plead GUILTY to something HE DID NOT DO!

In essence, I believe Evansdale as a whole will continue to stand behind the Collins family. If hypothetical situation became a reality, I believe the Collins would still benefit by saying they thought all along it was a sexual predator and they had no idea. I believe the community as a whole would feel so sorry for them and the community WILL benefit IF the Angels Island becomes a reality.

My hope is that Kent Smock, Black Hawk County Law Enforcement and the FBI continue to investigate this crime as an abduction and murder of two little girls and that it just doesn't somehow get swept under the rug because they believe in the above-mentioned hypothetical situation. I wish with ALL MY HEART :beats: they continue to look for the killer and never give up on finding :justice: for Elizabeth and Lyric! :cry:

My sincere apologies for such a long and rambling post.

 

[Bootsctr]

I would like to know what aspect of Lyric and Elizabeth's abduction and murder that compels Smock to describe it as "very unique".:websleuther:

u·nique
/yo͞oˈnēk/
Adjective - Being the only one of its kind; unlike anything else: "the situation was unique in modern politics"; "original and unique designs".
Noun - A unique person or thing.
Synonyms - singular - single - only - sole - unparalleled

:waitasec:

IMO, very uniqueis a descriptor in that the abduction was two children instead of one. Excellent conversation between Marilyn and Otto regarding statistics of one child versus two child abductions in earlier pages. Maybe I am a negative nellie, but that is my interpretation of very unique.

 

[Bootsctr]

Police released the stranger danger information a few weeks ago. The media posted that information on April 11. The decisions by the media to post that information now doesn't mean much. What is the significance of police posting the information a few weeks ago?

IMO, there is "STRANGER DANGER"!!!!!!! Keep an eye on your kids! Don't be afraid to let them go outside, but for heaven's sake don't let them roam the streets unattended. Tell them to be wary of ANY stranger or anyone that gives them WEIRD feeling! And be sure and tell that a stranger can be someone that they have seen before and even spoken to, but do not know as a friend. Tell them a stranger could even be someone who attends the same church or school functions. Just because they have a familiar face does not make them a friend - they are still strangers!

 

[Bootsctr]

It's enough to make me think LE knows who did this. JMO

Think being the key word here. IMO LE doesn't want a panicked community. They don't necessarily want to even scare the suspected perp away IF they even have a clue. I don't know - the whole situation is just WEIRD! :ufo: :anguish: ullhair:

 

[Bootsctr]

Could this perp actually be living in WC's neighbourhood?

Did this perpetrator become obsessed with L and wonder where WC and L went on the days they were at HC's home and decide to follow WC on previous occasions and plan the abduction/murder for that day after familiarizing themselves with the routine the girls had.

If this person was known to L from her grandma's neighbourhood, she may have felt safe to go along with whatever lure was used.

Do we know if LE went door to door in WC's neighbourhood looking for a clue.

How many RSO's were cleared in a one mile radius of WC's home?

IMO

Your questions certainly raise a valid concern Rose, and I do hope LE did clear all the RSO's. I think the intended victim was Lizzie and the perp is in the Collins' neighborhood. Like 3CK has always said, this happened on the "Collins' stomping grounds." I feel Lizzie was a very free little spirit and knew many people and had many friends. Lyric on the other hand probaby stuck pretty close to Grandma. I would say her and Grandma were best of friends, but of course Lyric was growing up quickly and starting to "spread her wings" as evidenced by the previous incident with other cousin in Waterloo. I would be very interested in knowing which body was found closest to the turn-around area at 7-Bridges and whose little body was the furthest away from the turn-around area. . .

 

[Bootsctr]

Or that they're concerned with covering their own behinds.

:great: Great point! He's worded the statement in such a way that is either or - it's open to interpretation - that's why it is so scary to me. He covered his :behind: I'm so glad you said that carbuff! :rocker:

 

[threecrazykids]

At this point, regardless of WHO did this...they've managed to pull off a crime of unbelievable proportions.

The circumstances of this crime are so atypical it's almost unbelievable...yet it happened AND no arrest has been made to date.

Stranger, family, co-worker, church member, RSO, etc. is irrelevant at this point. It doesn't matter to me WHO it is, I'm speaking about the act of the crime itself. This person has yet to be charged and convicted of a double murder, and THAT my friends doesn't sit well with me. How in the HELL does one get away with something like this?

Two girls who HAPPEN to be cousins, HAPPEN to be at a place in town where NO ONE is able to provide enough information to issue an arrest. They manage to abduct these two girls in broad daylight, in assumed silence, avoid detection via witness or video survelliance, wisk them away, murder them, and leave their bodies in a public park 20 miles away to be found 5 months later.

No DNA? No witnesses? No evidence left behind to run with?

How is this even POSSIBLE?!!

:banghead:

 

[RNER]

At this point, regardless of WHO did this...they've managed to pull off a crime of unbelievable proportions.

The circumstances of this crime are so atypical it's almost unbelievable...yet it happened AND no arrest has been made to date.

Stranger, family, co-worker, church member, RSO, etc. is irrelevant at this point. It doesn't matter to me WHO it is, I'm speaking about the act of the crime itself. This person has yet to be charged and convicted of a double murder, and THAT my friends doesn't sit well with me. How in the HELL does one get away with something like this?

Two girls who HAPPEN to be cousins, HAPPEN to be at a place in town where NO ONE is able to provide enough information to issue an arrest. They manage to abduct these two girls in broad daylight, in assumed silence, avoid detection via witness or video survelliance, wisk them away, murder them, and leave their bodies in a public park 20 miles away to be found 5 months later.

No DNA? No witnesses? No evidence left behind to run with?

How is this even POSSIBLE?!!

:banghead:

Agree......

And in 9 months, absolutely NOTHING that wasn't known within the first week after the disappearances...except the discovery of 2 dead bodies!

UNBELIEVABLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I realize there are different grieving and mourning process of such a tragedy, but I just don't understand how friends, family, and the community of these girls aren't demanding answers or seeking reassurance that some sort of progress is being made in the case! ZOMBIES??????????????????

 

[Marilynilpa]

:seeya: Hi 3CK! I too have thought about such a HYPOTHETICAL situation. In reading some of the early articles at Cranky Crankerson's, after the girls' bodies had been discovered, it was Kent Smock who told the families of a fund that was available if the families needed help with burial expenses for the girls. The fund was named in the article. I don't have the link handy but like I said I read it here: http://s296.beta.photobucket.com/us...y -IA-?&_suid=135712632459807843590297720956

That was a good thing for Mr. Smock to do for the families and I believe he reached out to both Elizabeth and Lyric's families about the fund. In fact, I believe it ultimately led to the "Angels Island Memorial" and the foundation behind that project. I believe obviously someone at some point said, look at all the monies people are giving for your girls, you have the ability to do something really amazing in the community in memory of the girls. IMO, one family is being left out of the planning and to me that is really sad, but the situation is what it is.

Hypothetically speaking, if LE felt a family member was involved and were building a case against hypothetical family member, would they feel responsible for maybe alerting the public that "HEY this situation is "unique" and maybe not a random abduction for sexual motive, but could involve the family? IMO, No.

Kent Smock's recent statement to me says they really do think it was an abduction. They cannot say otherwise, because they DO NOT KNOW. If they have suspicion hypothetically about a family member or members being involved, I don't think they can prove it without a confession. I don't think DNA would help at all if hypothetical family member or members were involved.

Hypothetically, I think a suspected family member could have already been offered a plea deal to kidnapping and uintentional homicide for 50 years or plead guilty to let's say random drug charges for example. I believe hypothetical family member would plead guilty to drug charges that could lead to 325 (?) years behind bars rather than plead guilty to having anything to do with the death of Lyric and Elizabeth because even in a 1,000 years he's not going to plead GUILTY to something HE DID NOT DO!

In essence, I believe Evansdale as a whole will continue to stand behind the Collins family. If hypothetical situation became a reality, I believe the Collins would still benefit by saying they thought all along it was a sexual predator and they had no idea. I believe the community as a whole would feel so sorry for them and the community WILL benefit IF the Angels Island becomes a reality.

My hope is that Kent Smock, Black Hawk County Law Enforcement and the FBI continue to investigate this crime as an abduction and murder of two little girls and that it just doesn't somehow get swept under the rug because they believe in the above-mentioned hypothetical situation. I wish with ALL MY HEART :beats: they continue to look for the killer and never give up on finding :justice: for Elizabeth and Lyric! :cry:

My sincere apologies for such a long and rambling post.

Your well-thought-out post has me thinking about a couple of things in a different light. Thanks for that.

I am so eager for more information that perhaps I'm trying to read too much into Smock's comments.:blushing:

 

[otto]

At this point, regardless of WHO did this...they've managed to pull off a crime of unbelievable proportions.

The circumstances of this crime are so atypical it's almost unbelievable...yet it happened AND no arrest has been made to date.

Stranger, family, co-worker, church member, RSO, etc. is irrelevant at this point. It doesn't matter to me WHO it is, I'm speaking about the act of the crime itself. This person has yet to be charged and convicted of a double murder, and THAT my friends doesn't sit well with me. How in the HELL does one get away with something like this?

Two girls who HAPPEN to be cousins, HAPPEN to be at a place in town where NO ONE is able to provide enough information to issue an arrest. They manage to abduct these two girls in broad daylight, in assumed silence, avoid detection via witness or video survelliance, wisk them away, murder them, and leave their bodies in a public park 20 miles away to be found 5 months later.

No DNA? No witnesses? No evidence left behind to run with?

How is this even POSSIBLE?!!

:banghead:

Practice and experience

 

[Marilynilpa]

At this point, regardless of WHO did this...they've managed to pull off a crime of unbelievable proportions.

The circumstances of this crime are so atypical it's almost unbelievable...yet it happened AND no arrest has been made to date.

Stranger, family, co-worker, church member, RSO, etc. is irrelevant at this point. It doesn't matter to me WHO it is, I'm speaking about the act of the crime itself. This person has yet to be charged and convicted of a double murder, and THAT my friends doesn't sit well with me. How in the HELL does one get away with something like this?

Two girls who HAPPEN to be cousins, HAPPEN to be at a place in town where NO ONE is able to provide enough information to issue an arrest. They manage to abduct these two girls in broad daylight, in assumed silence, avoid detection via witness or video survelliance, wisk them away, murder them, and leave their bodies in a public park 20 miles away to be found 5 months later.

No DNA? No witnesses? No evidence left behind to run with?

How is this even POSSIBLE?!!

:banghead:

BBM

How, indeed?

It seems impossible, and yet it happened. I believe this was carefully planned, and I also think there has been a heck of a cover-up going on by the responsible party/parties. JMO.

 

[threecrazykids]

:seeya: Hi 3CK! I too have thought about such a HYPOTHETICAL situation. In reading some of the early articles at Cranky Crankerson's, after the girls' bodies had been discovered, it was Kent Smock who told the families of a fund that was available if the families needed help with burial expenses for the girls. The fund was named in the article. I don't have the link handy but like I said I read it here: http://s296.beta.photobucket.com/us...y -IA-?&_suid=135712632459807843590297720956

That was a good thing for Mr. Smock to do for the families and I believe he reached out to both Elizabeth and Lyric's families about the fund. In fact, I believe it ultimately led to the "Angels Island Memorial" and the foundation behind that project. I believe obviously someone at some point said, look at all the monies people are giving for your girls, you have the ability to do something really amazing in the community in memory of the girls. IMO, one family is being left out of the planning and to me that is really sad, but the situation is what it is.

Hypothetically speaking, if LE felt a family member was involved and were building a case against hypothetical family member, would they feel responsible for maybe alerting the public that "HEY this situation is "unique" and maybe not a random abduction for sexual motive, but could involve the family? IMO, No.

Kent Smock's recent statement to me says they really do think it was an abduction. They cannot say otherwise, because they DO NOT KNOW. If they have suspicion hypothetically about a family member or members being involved, I don't think they can prove it without a confession. I don't think DNA would help at all if hypothetical family member or members were involved.

Hypothetically, I think a suspected family member could have already been offered a plea deal to kidnapping and uintentional homicide for 50 years or plead guilty to let's say random drug charges for example. I believe hypothetical family member would plead guilty to drug charges that could lead to 325 (?) years behind bars rather than plead guilty to having anything to do with the death of Lyric and Elizabeth because even in a 1,000 years he's not going to plead GUILTY to something HE DID NOT DO!

In essence, I believe Evansdale as a whole will continue to stand behind the Collins family. If hypothetical situation became a reality, I believe the Collins would still benefit by saying they thought all along it was a sexual predator and they had no idea. I believe the community as a whole would feel so sorry for them and the community WILL benefit IF the Angels Island becomes a reality.

My hope is that Kent Smock, Black Hawk County Law Enforcement and the FBI continue to investigate this crime as an abduction and murder of two little girls and that it just doesn't somehow get swept under the rug because they believe in the above-mentioned hypothetical situation. I wish with ALL MY HEART :beats: they continue to look for the killer and never give up on finding :justice: for Elizabeth and Lyric! :cry:

My sincere apologies for such a long and rambling post.

Thank you for your thoughtful post. I completely understand your thoughts...however I wonder how the community would feel if it didn't turn out to be the "Cook-Morrisey" side of the family who was found to have the connection.

This whole scenario is hypothetical so it's hard to say what could happen down the road. What if it ends up being one of Drew's or Heather's close friends who volunteered lots of hours doing the renovation? Will people still want to go there if a lot of the work was done by suspect #1? I don't know...it's all chilling to me.

LE has said this person walks among them.

I just really feel as if they have the cart before the horse on this whole memorial/fundraising/donation freight train. I just hope it doesn't get halfway done and some huge break comes in the case and the island is left as a huge eyesore because no one wants to donate anymore.

Hopefully people would still feel for the girls and finish the renovation...as it is FOR THEM. It's not meant to be some sort of "interstate attraction" as people pass by on I-380. Hopefully someone gets it under control and ensure's it's completed tastefully and respectfully for the girls and serves the original purpose...to memorialize the girls.

 

[threecrazykids]

Practice and experience

Exellent point!

If that's the case, LE needs to step up and admit the fact that a serial killer is on the loose and do their job and warn the public and show a sense of urgency. Not general "watch your kids" statements that is you would see in a typical public service announcement.

 

[Marilynilpa]

Practice and experience

I think a lot of us feel the perp is a local, based on him/her/them knowing about both Meyers Lake/Maiden Lane and 7 Bridges.

So do you believe a practiced and experienced child abductor/murderer is living in Evansdale or the surrounding area?

 

[Marilynilpa]

Exellent point!

If that's the case, LE needs to step up and admit the fact that a serial killer is on the loose and do their job and warn the public and show a sense of urgency. Not general "watch your kids" statements that is you would see in a typical public service announcement.

I'll play devil's advocate again.:what:

Perhaps LE assumes that, since there has been no arrest, the public must know there is a child killer at large and, therefore, there is no need to state the obvious.

NNMO

 

[RNER]

:seeya: Hi 3CK! I too have thought about such a HYPOTHETICAL situation. In reading some of the early articles at Cranky Crankerson's, after the girls' bodies had been discovered, it was Kent Smock who told the families of a fund that was available if the families needed help with burial expenses for the girls. The fund was named in the article. I don't have the link handy but like I said I read it here: http://s296.beta.photobucket.com/us...y -IA-?&_suid=135712632459807843590297720956

That was a good thing for Mr. Smock to do for the families and I believe he reached out to both Elizabeth and Lyric's families about the fund. In fact, I believe it ultimately led to the "Angels Island Memorial" and the foundation behind that project. I believe obviously someone at some point said, look at all the monies people are giving for your girls, you have the ability to do something really amazing in the community in memory of the girls. IMO, one family is being left out of the planning and to me that is really sad, but the situation is what it is.

Hypothetically speaking, if LE felt a family member was involved and were building a case against hypothetical family member, would they feel responsible for maybe alerting the public that "HEY this situation is "unique" and maybe not a random abduction for sexual motive, but could involve the family? IMO, No.

Kent Smock's recent statement to me says they really do think it was an abduction. They cannot say otherwise, because they DO NOT KNOW. If they have suspicion hypothetically about a family member or members being involved, I don't think they can prove it without a confession. I don't think DNA would help at all if hypothetical family member or members were involved.

Hypothetically, I think a suspected family member could have already been offered a plea deal to kidnapping and uintentional homicide for 50 years or plead guilty to let's say random drug charges for example. I believe hypothetical family member would plead guilty to drug charges that could lead to 325 (?) years behind bars rather than plead guilty to having anything to do with the death of Lyric and Elizabeth because even in a 1,000 years he's not going to plead GUILTY to something HE DID NOT DO!

In essence, I believe Evansdale as a whole will continue to stand behind the Collins family. If hypothetical situation became a reality, I believe the Collins would still benefit by saying they thought all along it was a sexual predator and they had no idea. I believe the community as a whole would feel so sorry for them and the community WILL benefit IF the Angels Island becomes a reality.

My hope is that Kent Smock, Black Hawk County Law Enforcement and the FBI continue to investigate this crime as an abduction and murder of two little girls and that it just doesn't somehow get swept under the rug because they believe in the above-mentioned hypothetical situation. I wish with ALL MY HEART :beats: they continue to look for the killer and never give up on finding :justice: for Elizabeth and Lyric! :cry:

My sincere apologies for such a long and rambling post.

Great Post!

I hope I am understanding correctly, and I am responding to what I BELIEVE you are saying...

LE and the Judicial System in general are obligated to uphold The Constitution. If someone is suspected as being responsible for the death of another person, whether intentional, accidental, or somewhere in between, I would expect them to pursue an investigation, apprehend, and prosecute that person for involvement in the murder. I would hope (and would question the entire structure of the Judicial System if this is what has occured) that the responsible person would not be given a stiffer sentence for a lesser unrelated offense to "save face" or that LE would support a distraction of enormous proportions for a crime to be "swept under the rug".

Great theory (again, if I understand it correctly), but I don't see how it would be legal to do this. Hypothetically, if a person is suspected of committing Murder and faces Life in Prison, I don't see how he/she can legally have 300 years added to a 5 year sentence for an already exisiting charge of Robbery or other crime, just to avoid being charged with Murder. There are other options for a Murder charge to avoid a Life or lengthy sentence, like Manslaughter, Attempted Murder, varying degrees of the Murder charge, etc.

 

[carbuff]

I think "a very unique situation" could also be words chosen to reference the fact that things like this have not been commonplace to Evansdale.

I also think it's possible that he could be revealing they have had some kind of indication that the girls were targeted specifically, and not children in the community, in general.

I wish I knew.

Yeah, that's how I interpret what he said.

And it makes sense. When we were looking for similar cases in the region, we didn't find very many, which makes a serial killer unlikely unless it was somebody traveling through from outside -- possible, but unlikely.

A serial rapist or molester who's been escalating? Possible, but this seems a bit more planned than that. It's almost too perfect, too contrived, y'know? -

 

[Marilynilpa]

Agree......

And in 9 months, absolutely NOTHING that wasn't known within the first week after the disappearances...except the discovery of 2 dead bodies!

UNBELIEVABLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I realize there are different grieving and mourning process of such a tragedy, but I just don't understand how friends, family, and the community of these girls aren't demanding answers or seeking reassurance that some sort of progress is being made in the case! ZOMBIES??????????????????

I would love to hear just one family member say "I demand answers". JMO

 

[Marilynilpa]

Yeah, that's how I interpret what he said.

And it makes sense. When we were looking for similar cases in the region, we didn't find very many, which makes a serial killer unlikely unless it was somebody traveling through from outside -- possible, but unlikely.

A serial rapist or molester who's been escalating? Possible, but this seems a bit more planned than that. It's almost too perfect, too contrived, y'know? -

BBM

I feel the same way.

No plan is perfect, but in this case it seems no mistakes were made by the perp(s). Let's hope I'm very wrong about that.