IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #32

[cindersoot]

I'm taking the suv statements with a grain of salt. I think what was seen was a large white vehicle, and it is being described as the person remembers it. Van, suv, pickup, VW bug, heck who knows.

 

[Grainne Dhu]

Thanks GD, for you eloquent explanation.

So are you saying the deal is up for negotiation?
I know little of the legal end so I greatly appreciate input!

Oh yeah, there's often a lot of behind the scenes negotiation.

There are two main types of plea deals. One is the sort where the prosecutor would rather not go to court (weak evidence, poor witness(es), whatever). The prosecutor goes to the defence and says something like "we could take your client to court on a Fumblety in the first degree charge; but we're busy and even though your client is no doubt guilty of Fumblety in the first degree we recognise he has no prior convictions, so we'd be willing to accept a guilty or Alford plea to Fumblety in the third degree for a recommendation to the judge that your client serve 24 months in prison plus 5 years of supervised probation with an agreement not to appeal."

The other type of plea deal is one in which the defendant offers to trade information in order for a lenient sentencing recommendation to the judge. If the defence wants the plea bargain, the defence attorney makes what is called a proffer; it is a statement worded hypothetically and without hard details that outlines what sort of information the defendant may be able to give to LE. Only after a plea deal has been accepted by both sides does the defendant have to make a sworn statement that has all the details.

The reasons for plea bargains vary. In many places, the criminal court system is so clogged up that prosecutors and judges are willing to offer plea deals to non-violent defendants just to keep the system running. Sometimes there are human and humane considerations; for instance, a witness who absolutely dreads testifying in open court. Sometimes a plea deal can be considered to be in the best interests of society; for instance, someone involved in organised crime who is willing to incriminate people further up the food chain.

The behind the scenes stuff is supposed to be kept secret and if the deal falls through, the negotiations cannot be used in trial.

 

[Grainne Dhu]

BBM

But wouldn't this be parole, not probation? I think probation is given in lieu of serving time, whereas parole is early release from a sentence being served.

IMO it appears both sentences could be probation, which is why it doesn't make sense to me.

You are correct, I believe.

In this particular case it means that the judge can choose anything from time served (if DM has been sitting in jail) plus probation to hundreds of years with a stipulated minimum that would amount to a life sentence.

If the rumours of the extent of DM's cooperation in the weeks after Lyric was abducted are true, I think the prosecutor would also be motivated by humane considerations. Supposedly DM gave all the information he had on various people without requiring anything in return and he lost his daughter; I think a person would have to have a heart of stone not to consider all that.

 

[SapphireSteel]

You are correct, I believe.

In this particular case it means that the judge can choose anything from time served (if DM has been sitting in jail) plus probation to hundreds of years with a stipulated minimum that would amount to a life sentence.

If the rumours of the extent of DM's cooperation in the weeks after Lyric was abducted are true, I think the prosecutor would also be motivated by humane considerations. Supposedly DM gave all the information he had on various people without requiring anything in return and he lost his daughter; I think a person would have to have a heart of stone not to consider all that.

That is the exact opposite of what I read he did.

Do you have a link? TIA

 

[Foxfire]

Per this link, the 3 yr. old girls were taken approx. 60 miles away where they were discarded. (you know the old saying about not leaving "stuff" in your own backyard)

this map may show the distance.
http://mapq.st/124jkup

snipped:
"Dec. 16, 1991 — Klunder is now living at the Lantern Park Apartments in Charles City ... Klunder becomes the main suspect in the kidnapping of two, 3-year-old girls, who were taken from the front yard of their Charles City day care. Both are found later that day in a garbage receptacle in Worth County. One of the children had been choked hard enough to raise concerns about her health. Other residents at the complex point to Klunder as a potential suspect. He is questioned but he becomes uncooperative. When police try to find him again, they find he has fled the city in his 1982 Honda Civic. He is wanted on two counts of first-degree kidnapping and false imprisonment." (note he is found in Houston, TX)

MJK, first fled to FL, had mechanical problems, and then took a bus to Texas...
The 3 year olds were left to die by MJK, imo. They were fortunate to survive by being located in 6 hours in December 1991..

MJK, seems to have an obvious pattern of incorporating jurisdiction linkage blindness in his abductions. Just a few;
http://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=W...Tl9--ilnlPDLVrz6hzEJqQ18QdGA_Q&mra=ls&t=m&z=8

 

[B4igo2it]

Look at the vehicles parked behind Gma

MISSING IN IOWA: Grandma says 'It's absolutely no family' - YouTube

 

[Foxfire]

The Mickey Shunick(LA-05/2012) story is on Dateline now..

https://www.facebook.com/datelinenbc?hc_location=stream

Mickey Shunick featured
Dateline NBC
Tonight at 8/7c, a special #Dateline classic.

 

[B4igo2it]

white SUV vehicle in the beginning of this video

Update: Evansdale Police - YouTube

 

[Bootsctr]

Look at the vehicles parked behind Gma

MISSING IN IOWA: Grandma says 'It's absolutely no family' - YouTube

To me, the SUV would more closely resemble the one in this video, and can I just comment I always thought it was so weird how everyone gathered round the lake as it was drained despite the family's protests that the girls were not in the lake. . . It was almost like a town lynching or something :banghead: It was just so strange to me. :jail:

 

[Foxfire]

http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdale...a4bcf887a.html
<sniped & BBM>

New and old tips led to new appeal in abducted cousins case, chief says


According to a press release from the Black Hawk County Sheriff&#8217;s Office, investigators have received witness information that a white, older model, full-size SUV-type vehicle was parked on or near the lake along Arbutus Avenue near Meyers Lake on July 13, the day the girls went missing.

 

[MzAlexis]

The video of grandma shows the front end of a heavy duty (trash,water etc) truck & beside it a newer van w/ a sliding door. Can't think of the make off the top of my head, but its not a 'popular' make if you know what I mean.

The other video shows a Chevy Trailblazer parked by the road. It's a newer model SUV & most likely wouldn't be confused for a 90's box style SUV IMO. Also, the second white van behind it appears to be a pretty new Toyota minivan.

 

[georger]

To me, the SUV would more closely resemble the one in this video, and can I just comment I always thought it was so weird how everyone gathered round the lake as it was drained despite the family's protests that the girls were not in the lake. . . It was almost like a town lynching or something :banghead: It was just so strange to me. :jail:

It's a bit difficult to know what to say at this stage. I thought the issue of vehicles had been covered before, but apparently not. On the other hand a late recollection sometimes bring new awareness, where it was missed before. The goal of finding the girl's killer(s) remains, whatever conveyance he, she, or it was driving, or leading by a halter! :banghead:

 

[Snowbunny]

OT: I went and checked in on Mandy Matula's thread and I noticed that no one has posted anything for several weeks. Please help keep Mandy's name out there. She still hasn't been found. Mandy Matula, 24, Eden Prairie, 2 May 2013

 

[Dr. Know?]

90 Suburban

90 White Bronco (like Oj's)

I want to add the 90's White Blazer

Not to mention older pickups with camper shells but ran out of time trying to find one. Haven't a clue if it's 70's, 80's, 90's or beyond but thought I'd post these as a fair start.

And the white boxiest van I remember from the 90's

The Chevy Astro Van or Safari

 

[BunnyHop]

You are correct, I believe.

In this particular case it means that the judge can choose anything from time served (if DM has been sitting in jail) plus probation to hundreds of years with a stipulated minimum that would amount to a life sentence.

If the rumours of the extent of DM's cooperation in the weeks after Lyric was abducted are true, I think the prosecutor would also be motivated by humane considerations. Supposedly DM gave all the information he had on various people without requiring anything in return and he lost his daughter; I think a person would have to have a heart of stone not to consider all that.

BBM He did? That's not the way I understood it. Is there a link?

 

[BunnyHop]

Oh yeah, there's often a lot of behind the scenes negotiation.

There are two main types of plea deals. One is the sort where the prosecutor would rather not go to court (weak evidence, poor witness(es), whatever). The prosecutor goes to the defence and says something like "we could take your client to court on a Fumblety in the first degree charge; but we're busy and even though your client is no doubt guilty of Fumblety in the first degree we recognise he has no prior convictions, so we'd be willing to accept a guilty or Alford plea to Fumblety in the third degree for a recommendation to the judge that your client serve 24 months in prison plus 5 years of supervised probation with an agreement not to appeal."

The other type of plea deal is one in which the defendant offers to trade information in order for a lenient sentencing recommendation to the judge. If the defence wants the plea bargain, the defence attorney makes what is called a proffer; it is a statement worded hypothetically and without hard details that outlines what sort of information the defendant may be able to give to LE. Only after a plea deal has been accepted by both sides does the defendant have to make a sworn statement that has all the details.

The reasons for plea bargains vary. In many places, the criminal court system is so clogged up that prosecutors and judges are willing to offer plea deals to non-violent defendants just to keep the system running. Sometimes there are human and humane considerations; for instance, a witness who absolutely dreads testifying in open court. Sometimes a plea deal can be considered to be in the best interests of society; for instance, someone involved in organised crime who is willing to incriminate people further up the food chain.

The behind the scenes stuff is supposed to be kept secret and if the deal falls through, the negotiations cannot be used in trial.

bbm, sounds interesting.

 

[BunnyHop]

90 Suburban

90 White Bronco (like Oj's)

I want to add the 90's White Blazer

Not to mention older pickups with camper shells but ran out of time trying to find one. Haven't a clue if it's 70's, 80's, 90's or beyond but thought I'd post these as a fair start.

And the white boxiest van I remember from the 90's

The Chevy Astro Van or Safari

Thanks for the visual-very helpful.

 

[Marilynilpa]

BBM He did? That's not the way I understood it. Is there a link?

Morrissey's mother-in-law, Wylma Cook, said Morrissey had been giving investigators information on other methamphetamine makers in recent months to shave time off his own possible sentence.

"Dan 'narc-ed' on a bunch of people," Cook said, using a slang term for telling police about other drug users and dealers. "Everybody knows that."

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/judge-delays-trial-father-missing-iowa-girl#sthash.N8km77ry.dpuf

 

[Marilynilpa]

Morrissey's mother-in-law, Wylma Cook, said Morrissey had been giving investigators information on other methamphetamine makers in recent months to shave time off his own possible sentence.

"Dan 'narc-ed' on a bunch of people," Cook said, using a slang term for telling police about other drug users and dealers. "Everybody knows that."

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/judge-delays-trial-father-missing-iowa-girl#sthash.N8km77ry.dpuf

As far as I can tell, Dan didn't provide info to LE without expecting something in return. He was trying to reduce the amount of prison time he might face. JMO

 

[BunnyHop]

Morrissey's mother-in-law, Wylma Cook, said Morrissey had been giving investigators information on other methamphetamine makers in recent months to shave time off his own possible sentence.

"Dan 'narc-ed' on a bunch of people," Cook said, using a slang term for telling police about other drug users and dealers. "Everybody knows that."

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/judge-delays-trial-father-missing-iowa-girl#sthash.N8km77ry.dpuf

I must be confused. I heard that way back (from WC)
However, wasn't there an original plea deal that was dropped the day before the girls went missing? So in my mind that "info" disappeared or became void.
I guess my question is; if this "info" had been shared in previous months, why drop the plea and be subjected to harsher penalties?