IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, found deceased, Evansdale, 13 Jul 2012 #38

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  • #401
Well don’t to the women for getting pictures of these perverts. It seems they are more common than I thought. I’ve had the experience of seeing a flasher, while he was riding a motorbike, I was only a teen myself at the time. I just don’t get what they got out of it.
When I was very young my washing machine broke down so I had to go to the laundry mat. A flasher came in the alley door and the more we screamed, the more he got off.
That was what I noticed right away, so instead of screaming at him I belittled his manhood and size.
 
  • #402
I can’t possibly catch up on all the posts, so if I post anything that has already been discussed ad nauseum, plase let me know.

I hope to return to active participation soon. In the meantime, bumping for the girls.
 
  • #403
I certainly never thought of CR as a possible suspect in the girls’ murders. My first instinct is that the killer is someone more connected to the Evansdale/Waterloo area than CR seems to be. JMO
 
  • #404
I’m just trying to think of something to get a conversation going, so I’ll throw these topics out there.

I wonder how many of us think the girls were killed where they were found? Do any of us feel the girls were killed elsewhere then carried to the site where they were found? Does anyone believe the girls were held somewhere for a while before they were killed?

Another topic is DNA. How many of us feel DNA was found but didn’t link to anyone. How many think no usable DNA was found?

I’ll be the first to respond. I think the girls were killed where they were found, shortly after they were abducted. And I tend to believe no usable DNA was recovered. All JMO.

I’d love to hear everyone’s opinions!
 
  • #405
Seems like every indication is that they don't have any useful DNA from the scene where the body was found.

As to where they were killed or whether they were held--I'm really not sure, though I think I'm inclined to think they were murdered somewhere else.
 
  • #406
I remember posting a lot about how statistically unlikely it is for two children to be kidnapped and murdered together. It just doesn’t happen often. Based on the statistics I looked at, it seemed logical that if another set of girls were taken and murdered, it would be very likely that the same killer was responsible for both cases.

Yet now that we have two more girls who were taken and murdered together, I have trouble believing the very statistics I was touting so much. I will try harder to keep an open mind about the murders of Abby/Libby being connected to the murders of Lyric/Lizzy.

If one person IS responsible for both sets of murders, then my opinion as to the underlying reason for Lyric and Libby being killed isn’t valid. I have never thought this was a stranger abduction. JMO
 
  • #407
I’m just trying to think of something to get a conversation going, so I’ll throw these topics out there.

I wonder how many of us think the girls were killed where they were found? Do any of us feel the girls were killed elsewhere then carried to the site where they were found? Does anyone believe the girls were held somewhere for a while before they were killed?

Another topic is DNA. How many of us feel DNA was found but didn’t link to anyone. How many think no usable DNA was found?

I’ll be the first to respond. I think the girls were killed where they were found, shortly after they were abducted. And I tend to believe no usable DNA was recovered. All JMO.

I’d love to hear everyone’s opinions!
I think they were kept in a barn for a short time, one died due to injuries she received and the other was murdered on purpose. I don't believe it happened where they were found. MOO
 
  • #408
I think they were kept in a barn for a short time, one died due to injuries she received and the other was murdered on purpose. I don't believe it happened where they were found. MOO
I feel this way about the Delphi murders too.
 
  • #409
I think they were kept in a barn for a short time, one died due to injuries she received and the other was murdered on purpose. I don't believe it happened where they were found. MOO
That’s an interesting idea. Which girl do you feel died from injuries?

Do you think the barn was near Seven Bridges?
 
  • #410
Seems like every indication is that they don't have any useful DNA from the scene where the body was found.

As to where they were killed or whether they were held--I'm really not sure, though I think I'm inclined to think they were murdered somewhere else.

I agree, there doesn’t seem to be any useable DNA that we are aware of.

I read an interview of Drew a couple of months ago - if I can find it I’ll link to it. One thing he mentioned was his belief that the girls were killed where they were found. He reasoning was that the area was so overgrown that it would be difficult to carry the girls through the brush and weeds.

Do you think there may have been more than one person who carried their bodies?
 
  • #411
That’s an interesting idea. Which girl do you feel died from injuries?

Do you think the barn was near Seven Bridges?
The barn, if I'm remembering right, was sort of northwest of Evansdale, but I'm not really sure how close it was to Seven Bridges. I believe it was between the two places, and closer to Seven Bridges than Evansdale. I've always thought that Lizzy died first, and Lyric the next day, but I'm not sure why I believe it. MOO
 
  • #412
I agree, there doesn’t seem to be any useable DNA that we are aware of.

I read an interview of Drew a couple of months ago - if I can find it I’ll link to it. One thing he mentioned was his belief that the girls were killed where they were found. He reasoning was that the area was so overgrown that it would be difficult to carry the girls through the brush and weeds.

Do you think there may have been more than one person who carried their bodies?
Includes video of Drew walking through that part of the woods.
July 12 2017 rbbm.
The pain of 2 Iowa girls' killings remains, but resolve in Evansdale only grows
"Collins is on his way to the site where hunters stumbled upon Elizabeth and Lyric, resolving part of the mystery of the girls' fates but leaving unknown who took them and what happened. The case made national news and forever changed the lives of the girls' families, neighbors and Iowa law enforcement officers involved in the case. In just the past few months, authorities began a new approach in their investigation of the killings.

Collins doesn't like to make this trip.

He looks into the forest.

“It gets worse,” he says.

He walks through knee-high grass and fallen trees, looking left and right for marks that remind him of the spot. But the earth has shifted over time.

Seven minutes after leaving his pickup, he finds it.

“You could be screaming, and no one could hear you,” Collins says. “I think about that, for a little girl to be down here with a stranger they don’t know. And then you wonder what they went through.”

Collins was first brought here about two years after his daughter and niece disappeared. This is his fifth visit.

"I would never come out here alone. It’s kind of scary being out here," Collins said. "To me, this place is not a peaceful place. We can only imagine what happened to them here."

Collins said he thinks Elizabeth and Lyric were alive when they were brought here — it seems impossible to him that they could have been carried.

“I think about how bad the bugs were and how scary it must have been for them,” Collins said. “Who could do this to two little girls?"
 
  • #413
I've thought that the overgrown condition might be why the bodies weren't closer to each other. He carried one girl in, but when he brought the other, he couldn't find where he put the first one.
 
  • #414
I’m just trying to think of something to get a conversation going, so I’ll throw these topics out there.

I wonder how many of us think the girls were killed where they were found? Do any of us feel the girls were killed elsewhere then carried to the site where they were found? Does anyone believe the girls were held somewhere for a while before they were killed?

Another topic is DNA. How many of us feel DNA was found but didn’t link to anyone. How many think no usable DNA was found?

I’ll be the first to respond. I think the girls were killed where they were found, shortly after they were abducted. And I tend to believe no usable DNA was recovered. All JMO.

I’d love to hear everyone’s opinions!

I feel like they were killed where they were found. I base this on simply the girl's weight and size. I know Lizzy was small, but didn't Lyric weigh close to 140 lbs? If so, it would have been nearly impossible for one person to carry her very far. That is an extreme amount of weight for anyone or even any two to carry, especially in rough terrain. Now, having said that, they may have been taken somewhere else first and things done to them, but I can't help but believe they were killed where they were found.

I don't know if this area is assessible by 4-wheel drive or not. I believe I saw a video where a vehicle was able to get somewhat close to where they were found, but noy all the way there.
 
  • #415
Not quite off topic.
Another case had a link to an article describing the missing in Iowa website which mentioned a Lesley S Juarez as being missing since October 15, 2015. Since she was 11 y/o at the time, I was on alert because of our girls in this case. She is currently listed on their website as Lesly S Juarez, 11, reported missing from Ottumwa on October 10, 2015 though the first name is spelled differently. Ottumwa is 113 miles (2 hrs) south of Evansdale. There is a possibility she was found but has not been removed from the website but then again she may still be missing.
Has anyone heard of this case? Could not find a thread in WS.

'The Clearinghouse lists four Ottumwa missing persons: Lesley S. Juarez, 11, missing since Oct. 15; Jeremy J. Richardson, 49, missing since October 2018; Aiden T. Rock, 15, missing since December 2016, and Dennison C. Stookesberry, 56, missing since February 1999.'

'Name: Lesly S Juarez
Age At Report: 11
Age Now: 14
Weight: 130 lbs.
Height: 5'00"
Race: White
Hair: Black
Eyes: Brown
Sex: Female
Incident Type: Juvenile

Lesly Juarez was reported missing to the Ottumwa Police Department 641-683-0636, in Ottumwa on Oct 10, 2015.'

Website lists Iowa missing persons
Missing Persons
 
  • #416
Includes video of Drew walking through that part of the woods.
July 12 2017 rbbm.
The pain of 2 Iowa girls' killings remains, but resolve in Evansdale only grows
"Collins is on his way to the site where hunters stumbled upon Elizabeth and Lyric, resolving part of the mystery of the girls' fates but leaving unknown who took them and what happened. The case made national news and forever changed the lives of the girls' families, neighbors and Iowa law enforcement officers involved in the case. In just the past few months, authorities began a new approach in their investigation of the killings.

Collins doesn't like to make this trip.

He looks into the forest.

“It gets worse,” he says.

He walks through knee-high grass and fallen trees, looking left and right for marks that remind him of the spot. But the earth has shifted over time.

Seven minutes after leaving his pickup, he finds it.

“You could be screaming, and no one could hear you,” Collins says. “I think about that, for a little girl to be down here with a stranger they don’t know. And then you wonder what they went through.”

Collins was first brought here about two years after his daughter and niece disappeared. This is his fifth visit.

"I would never come out here alone. It’s kind of scary being out here," Collins said. "To me, this place is not a peaceful place. We can only imagine what happened to them here."

Collins said he thinks Elizabeth and Lyric were alive when they were brought here — it seems impossible to him that they could have been carried.

“I think about how bad the bugs were and how scary it must have been for them,” Collins said. “Who could do this to two little girls?"

It was very hard to read this I can’t imagine what Drew and both families are going through. I’m so sorry for their loss, that the girls never got to grow up and that the monster who did this is free.
 
  • #417
I've thought that the overgrown condition might be why the bodies weren't closer to each other. He carried one girl in, but when he brought the other, he couldn't find where he put the first one.

That’s certainly possible, but I just don’t feel like the girls were carried in. JMO

I feel that the girls were killed where they were found. My explanation for why the girls weren’t found right next to each other is pretty gruesome. I think one girl tried to run away when the other one was killed, and was killed before she could completely get away. JMO, and horrifying. But then, this whole thing is horrifying!
 
  • #418
Not quite off topic.
Another case had a link to an article describing the missing in Iowa website which mentioned a Lesley S Juarez as being missing since October 15, 2015. Since she was 11 y/o at the time, I was on alert because of our girls in this case. She is currently listed on their website as Lesly S Juarez, 11, reported missing from Ottumwa on October 10, 2015 though the first name is spelled differently. Ottumwa is 113 miles (2 hrs) south of Evansdale. There is a possibility she was found but has not been removed from the website but then again she may still be missing.
Has anyone heard of this case? Could not find a thread in WS.

'The Clearinghouse lists four Ottumwa missing persons: Lesley S. Juarez, 11, missing since Oct. 15; Jeremy J. Richardson, 49, missing since October 2018; Aiden T. Rock, 15, missing since December 2016, and Dennison C. Stookesberry, 56, missing since February 1999.'

'Name: Lesly S Juarez
Age At Report: 11
Age Now: 14
Weight: 130 lbs.
Height: 5'00"
Race: White
Hair: Black
Eyes: Brown
Sex: Female
Incident Type: Juvenile

Lesly Juarez was reported missing to the Ottumwa Police Department 641-683-0636, in Ottumwa on Oct 10, 2015.'

Website lists Iowa missing persons
Missing Persons

She doesn’t appear on the NCMEC website. I checked Charley Project, and she does not show up there as an active or a resolved case.

I think most likely she was a runaway who returned home.

BTW, I search for both Lesley Juarez and Lesly Juarez.
 
  • #419
Although I am trying to be more flexible on my opinion regarding who abducted and killed the girls, it’s hard.

For reasons I won’t go into, I have always felt that Lyric was the primary target. It just makes sense to me based on things that took place shortly before and after the girls were abducted. I keep trying to convince myself of other theories and, while I enjoy reading everyone’s opinions, I just can’t change my mind. I’m a stubborn old goat.
 
  • #420
That’s certainly possible, but I just don’t feel like the girls were carried in. JMO

I feel that the girls were killed where they were found. My explanation for why the girls weren’t found right next to each other is pretty gruesome. I think one girl tried to run away when the other one was killed, and was killed before she could completely get away. JMO, and horrifying. But then, this whole thing is horrifying!

As with most everything about this sad case, there are multiple possible explanations. You could well be right.
 
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