IA - Mollie Tibbetts, 20, Poweshiek County, 19 Jul 2018 *Arrest* #41

[MistyWaters]

I pictured the same thing (torso), and the head wound was something different and non-fatal from the initial attack. I originally thought he killed her at the cornfield, but if you go by the affidavit, it kind of sounds like he put her body there, as if she was already dead. In either case, I agree with you, maybe at least one sharp injury was to her head.

I think she was already dead as well because everything I’ve read says to me she’s was the type who’d be physically prepared to fight for her life rather than be abducted. That’s also fits with CR admitting to getting mad and very upset because of her threat to call police. He also used an odd word of “panicked” but I’d interchange it with outraged. IMO he attacked her and during that battle he inflicted multiple sharp force injuries as he was equipped with a weapon and she was not. I’d expect he was injured at the time but was able to explain it off with a farm injury related story.

 

[Al Hoffman]

bbm



Whether or not an "undocumented alien" (I prefer "undocumented immigrant") being detained or a citizen being detained, neither would be expected to maintain a "reasonable expectation of walking away" or "feel free to just get up and walk out of the room", when confronted with what LE has on video.

MOO

My point being when does "custody start. At that point, the subject must be Mirandize or what ever is said past that point is not admissible and can be suppressed. No matter what they show you on video, when you ask "Can I leave now?" You either have to be allowed to walk out, or be Mirandized. If you chose to stay and keep talking, even though you could walk away, that's on you.

I don't think that CR is sophisticated to know this, and because of his life and time might be to scared to not tell the truth, and be unable to say no. I still maintain that this could be grounds to suppress the confession.

At the end of the day, this is just a conjecture, and without or with the confession CR will be convicted and spend the rest of his life in jail, because of the predominance of the rest of the evidence against him.

You can read about a death penalty case that was reduced to 20 years, and the convicted murderer walked away after 12 and 1/3 years, because of suppressed statements taken by LE while she was in custody. It took her 3 days to kill her child. LE found the child's pony tail in the trash, with the scalp still attached.

Please Google "Christina Dillard enters guilty plea - Picayune Item"

 

[Cardinal47]

This case is following along so closely to another case we followed. I said threads ago there would be no preliminary and am going on the record today to say he pleads guilty! In the other case it was a year after his arrest he pleaded guilty. Nathanial Kibby. Case timeline: Nathaniel Kibby pleads guilty in girl's kidnapping

 

[SharonNeedles]

This case is following along so closely to another case we followed. I said threads ago there would be no preliminary and am going on the record today to say he pleads guilty! In the other case it was a year after his arrest he pleaded guilty. Nathanial Kibby. Case timeline: Nathaniel Kibby pleads guilty in girl's kidnapping

I don’t think so... With no death penalty to bargain with what incentive could he have to plead guilty? I’ll guess his attorney tries to angle it towards second degree murder.

 

[Al Hoffman]

When a defendant waives a preliminary hearing it usually means several (or most) of the following that the defendant (or their attorneys):

- Knows there is ample evidence against them and the case will go to trial anyway so it will be a waste of time
- Plans to plead guilty and wants to avoid more negative publicity for themselves or their family
- Is guilty of more offenses than what was originally charged and fears evidence of those additional offenses will come out at preliminary hearing. Remember by the time the prelim hearing happens the prosecution has had time to do additional DNA and other testing
- Nature of offense is vicious, violent or nasty and if the defendant plans to plead guilty anyway, keeping that information off the public record can help the defendant before the sentencing judge
- Prosecution's case is extremely strong and defense lawyers fear prosecution witnesses may become so firmly attached to their positions at prelim that they may become angrier with the defendant and thus refuse later interviews requested by defense to prepare for trial

There are other reasons but these are the ones that likely apply to the killer in this case. Honestly, the most simple explanation why the preliminary hearing was waived is because the case is so strong it would go to trial anyway. In many murder cases where a defendant waives prelim, their attorneys are trying to cut a deal for a lesser charge (such as Murder Two or Manslaughter vs. Murder One) to get a sentence that isn't life w/o parole or death in DP states of which I know Iowa is not one.

It appears the killer's attorney's are trying to see if there is any way he can plead guilty to something lesser than Murder One and get say 20-40 in prison with parole possible in 15. The argument almost certainly will be that he did kill Mollie but did not intend to so Murder One doesn't apply and it wasn't premeditated. Either way, I don't think we are looking at a trial here - the case against him is strong without any DNA evidence so if any exists from genetic testing done during the autopsy, a guilty verdict is a foregone conclusion. The only question here is of what.

I can say with almost absolute certainty that there is no chance he gets off. The unknown factor his how many years will he serve. This guy is going to prison for a long time - just if it's for the rest of his life is the thing we need to have revealed over time.

Like you, I already know the outcome of this game. I'm just waiting to see what the point spread will be, and how the game will be played.

Also, please ask Occam to put that razor away, as he is making my zebra nervous.

 

[CarnegieHall]

My point being when does "custody start. At that point, the subject must be Mirandize or what ever is said past that point is not admissible and can be suppressed. No matter what they show you on video, when you ask "Can I leave now?" You either have to be allowed to walk out, or be Mirandized. If you chose to stay and keep talking, even though you could walk away, that's on you.

I don't think that CR is sophisticated to know this, and because of his life and time might be to scared to not tell the truth, and be unable to say no. I still maintain that this could be grounds to suppress the confession.

At the end of the day, this is just a conjecture, and without or with the confession CR will be convicted and spend the rest of his life in jail, because of the predominance of the rest of the evidence against him.

You can read about a death penalty case that was reduced to 20 years, and the convicted murderer walked away after 12 and 1/3 years, because of suppressed statements taken by LE while she was in custody. It took her 3 days to kill her child. LE found the child's pony tail in the trash, with the scalp still attached.

Please Google "Christina Dillard enters guilty plea - Picayune Item"

All the points you make regarding Miranda are legitimate. But the same points can be made for each part of the process—in respect to suppressing testimony and evidence, including but not limited to interrogation, Miranda rights, and evidence. In fact, in regards to a Miranda rights, the American bar assoc. since 2016, has been working to get a universally accepted Spanish-translated Miranda rights written and voice translated version since police departments all over the US vary on word translation choices. However, even if motions were made to suppress what he said, in my opinion, he would have two hurdles to jump. One is prosecution would have to have a pooor case and evidence that couldn’t overcome his suppressed statements, and two, is that the State could appeal. Lower court may affirm the judges ruling, but good news is Iowa is in 8th district court and not 9th (which includes California) and 8th is more conservative Constitutionally. Just my opinion and I’m new at this so take with a grain of salt.

 

[Cardinal47]

I don’t think so... With no death penalty to bargain with what incentive could he have to plead guilty? I’ll guess his attorney tries to angle it towards second degree murder.

Maybe. Then the pleading guilty like I said. Think about it. His only salvation in getting second will be that the Tibbets family seem to be a very forgiving family and perhaps to avoid a long drawn out trial which would be horrible for all of them they might accept a lesser. I donno. I'm no attorney. All I said it 'there will be NO trial'.

 

[Considering]

That’s all the same intersection. Boundry runs north/south, Middle Street turns left into town, 385th veers off to the right out of town. From here Mom’s house is just a few blocks ahead off to the left a bit.

No, it isn't the same. I said the 1900 block of 385th Avenue. The 1900 block of 385th Avenue is not at the intersection of Boundry and Middle streets.
​

 

[Sanz]

I don't know MT's known running routes, but running to the end of 385th ave. makes sense to me for her normal 45 minute run. If she left around 7:30 or a little later, and her pace was still at least an 8 minute mile as I've seen noted, that would put her near the end of 385th around 8pm and home before 8:25 (or sooner if going to Mom's). Sunset was at 9:02pm that night. JMO

They would be on all her Fitbit data transmitted up to years prior. And until the transmissions stopped in July.

 

[Al Hoffman]

I don’t think so... With no death penalty to bargain with what incentive could he have to plead guilty? I’ll guess his attorney tries to angle it towards second degree murder.

Things like choice of prison, terms of captivity like protective custody or a more lenient AdSeg, allowing visits with his child and her mom, might make for a Murder One plea. But I don't think the State will go with Murder Two, as their case is too strong.

MSM is reporting a NeoNazi group making robocalls into Iowa calling for the death of all Latinos in the US. Depending on the backlash that MT's murder causes problems for the Latino communiy, CR may have a very hard time in prison, as the Latinos may not have his back, and the Aryians may well want a piece of him, and everyone else may not want to get involved.

 

[Al Hoffman]

His new lawyers have stated that; 'had they been his lawyers from the start; they would have advised him to waive the preliminary hearing'.

Which is interesting, in that CR himself seem to have some doubts about agreeing to the preliminary hearing at his first court appearance. The attorney had to talk to him about it, and the attorney could be heard to say "it will speed things along" picked up by the open mike. A previou post, WAY up-thread noted that the Mexican court system is much slower than ours. Perhaps what CR expected? Or just putting off the inevitable?

 

[Kaylas]

I understand. My scenario is going by what police stated in the affidavit. That the incident began at 7:45 and ended at 8:28. I'm not quoting as I don't know the exact words. But to me that means they think the whole thing occurred within that time frame. I also believe he cornered and isolated her, and killed her in a violent frenzy. There is no evidence that he held her somewhere, but we do have evidence (fit bit data) that suggests he killed her in an uncontrollable rage.

Has anyone published the fit bit data? I am curious about the evidence downloaded.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Everytime I have seen a defendant waive his/her PH it was done because the lawyers felt it was best for the defendent to keep the gruesome details of the evidence unknown to the general public.

A perfect example of a high profile defendant waiving his PH was Joseph Duncan..the kidnapper... pedophile and mass murderer.

When the details were revealed in 2 different courts it showed why he wanted to suppress the facts from being known before trial.

I feel the details in this case will be horrifying as well once known.

I do understand why competent attorneys wouldn't want any of the facts in evidence known before trial. If known..it certainly may taint the potential jury pool.

Imo

 

[Al Hoffman]

Has anyone published the fit bit data? I am curious about the evidence downloaded.

LE has it, and they aren't talking!

 

[TL4S]

Everytime I have seen a defendant waive his/her PH it was done because the lawyers felt it was best for the defendent to keep the gruesome details of the evidence unknown to the general public.

A perfect example of a high profile defendant waiving his PH was Joseph Duncan..the kidnapper... pedophile and mass murderer.

When the details were revealed in 2 different courts it showed why he wanted to suppress the facts from being known before trial.

I feel the details in this case will be horrifying as well once known.

I do understand why competent attorneys wouldn't want any of the facts in evidence known before trial. If known..it certainly may taint the potential jury pool.

Imo

I also have confidence he is about to get charged with multiple more offenses, and/or his illegal status is a snag right now. JMO

 

[Kaylas]

LE has it, and they aren't talking!

Thank you!

 

[Al Hoffman]

I also have confidence he is about to get charged with multiple more offenses, and/or his illegal status is a snag right now. JMO

I don't think that ICE or CR's immigration status will matter as far as his continued custody as a guest of the State of Iowa, or his trial by the State. The 10th Ammendment to the Constitution gives Iowa primacy in this matter. The Feds can exercise their right to CR when he's dead, by shipping him home, thereby saving Iowa the expense of digging a hole.

I agree that there may well be more charges coming. Time will tell.

Waiting brings fullness!

 

[MsBetsy]

I also have confidence he is about to get charged with multiple more offenses, and/or his illegal status is a snag right now. JMO

What exactly does that mean? The illegal status? It might be holding things up? That may have to do with them waiving the hearing? Do they know his real name yet?

 

[MsBetsy]

Ms. Betsy posted in this thread, “I
also believe he cornered and isolated her, and killed her in a violent frenzy. There is no evidence that he held her somewhere, but we do have evidence (fit bit data) that suggests he killed her in an uncontrollable rage.” I was curious about the last part of her sentence, /The fit bit data suggests he killed her in an uncontrollable rage./ Would a family member shared her downloaded fit bit data?

No, sorry, I was just referring to the affidavit.. the rage part is just what I think it implies

 

[geevee]

Has anyone published the fit bit data? I am curious about the evidence downloaded.

We haven't seen any of the FitBit data (and not sure if we will unless this does go to trial). But if it does, we may see something like what was shown in the James VanCallis (April Millsap/deceased victim) trial, she had Sports Tracker app on her iPhone, and it showed the route she had taken that day, the points where she made phone calls and was attacked by VanCallis.

I don't know what other fitness apps Mollie had on her phone, or if FitBit makes a map of routes like Sports Tracker does but if so, it can be quite damaging to the defendant.

Sports Tracker evidence begins at around the 45:00 mark and continues into Part 2.