Found Deceased IA - Mollie Tibbetts, 20, Poweshiek County, 19 Jul 2018 *Arrest* #44

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  • #921
They got 4000 tips. So maybe someone did call it in. But it wouldn't have solved the crime if it was just an anecdotal description of a girl being hit on by a young guy in a car.

Given the intensity of this investigation by local, state and federal investigators, a tip of a named creepy stalker on the streets of Brooklyn would light up LEs radar. Notice neither of the media reports indicated anything about either person reporting it. In the aftermath of tragedies it’s utterly common for people to tell their stories to the media, as opposed to LE. In fact more common that not. They used to be featured on Nancy Grace show and after their brief few minutes of fame, they were never heard of again. Although DM didn’t quite the source, the boyfriend’s story first appeared on Radar online.

That’s not to say after CRs arrest, others who knew him personally haven’t disclosed their suspicions or unusual events to LE that might’ve been meaningless at the time.
 
  • #922
But didn't they initially ID the body based on the clothes and the fact that he led them to the body? Before it was official? I also had the impression she was badly decomposed and therefore could not be identified by her appearance .

this is one of the places I can get my mind stuck and spinning my wheels. I can see it that she was id'd by her clothes and I can see that decomp had taken its toll, but then I cant keep from wondering and what do we not know, maybe it is just as simple as her clothes, I have to keep telling myself this or I end up down the hole with the critters.
 
  • #923
This may have been his first homicide because I think it did not turn out the way he'd planned. I think he wanted to abduct and rape her. He may have fantasized about throwing he in the front seat, tied up, and driving to a remote area. But it didn't go as planned because she fought him and he ended up killing her very quickly. JMO

Wonder if they found a ski mask or mask and gloves at his home?

He certainly couldn’t risk being identified.
 
  • #924
I have to respectfully disagree with that reasoning, even if printed out of context they directly quoted him saying that.

Does it matter if he said it before or after saying they are digging into his background?

The key quote is “who escalates to abduction, kidnapping and homicide that fast”

Moo

My only point was I don’t think he was necessarily shocked. He was leaning toward the likelihood of prior violent incidents that LE wasn’t yet aware of.

CR himself gave a lead to LE that he has a past history. He said he “blocks” his memory when he gets very upset. How would he know that if he’d never gotten upset in the past?
 
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  • #925
My only point was I don’t think he was necessarily shocked. He was leaning toward the likelihood of prior violent incidents that LE weren’t yet aware of.

They are dealing with a virtual ghost with fake documents, and we don’t even know if he has more than one, but I don’t think he’s ever been reported in any name he goes by

Yes, I’m sure they are digging into everything they can find

Its not often a person escalates that fast

He may have been building up to this point and was never reported because of the possible legalities of the girls he took advantage of, he knew they would not report him type scenario

With MT, he couldn’t take that chance but that didn’t deter or end his desire he hatched a scheme to get what he wanted, it was planned out to the best of his ability

Imo, unless he was wearing a mask and gloves, he knew he had to kill her or he would be reported

Moo
 
  • #926
Before Mollie's body was found, police released a statement that they had a "ping" 10 miles SE of Brooklyn. They also announced that they were searching many farms in the area.

What I'm curious about is why the media, and perhaps police, fixated on the one pig farm. On the surface it appears that he received more attention because he had a criminal record.

What we know today is that police had a large area to search. They made a mistake when they focused on the pig farm. They were in the wrong area. This was a false lead. The should not have been searching the pig farm. The search should have been farther SE. The pig farm has nothing to do with Mollie.

You're expressing skepticism that LE searched a closed, unused, unstaffed "hog farm" building site, in the middle of no where, on the way to the final body dump site, from which there felt confident about a digital footprint? Even the Scooby gang would have searched there and would have been suspicious of the former owner of the site!
(who is the "hog farmer" in question).

The closed down hog finishing facility is not necessarily a "false lead", as it could well be a secondary crime scene used by CR on his way to the final dump site, but washed clean of forensic evidence by a foot of rain the night of the crime. Also, LE was confident of a digital footprint from that location, enough so to search it twice. There was a reason for this.
I heard LE say as much on video of a televised TV news clip, at the time. It would have been irresponsible for LE to NOT have thoroughly searched THIS "hog farm". Even the FBI agreed in this, and went back and searched it again. Likely including the hog waste ponds and waste holding tanks. (SHUDDER!!!!!!!!).

The former "pig farmer", who had sold the hog finishing facility (the site of a digital footprint) years prior (which was then damaged by fire, and therefore closed at the time of the murder), looked good to LE because he lived in very close proximity to the "hog farm" which was associated with a digital footprint from the victim's electronics, had once owned it. and has a history of prior arrests for being abusive to and harassing women. To NOT suspect him of the the crime at that time would be an act of incompetence by the DCI and the FBI. Incompetent they are not.
 
  • #927
Typical preceding heart rate changes, associated with hypovolemic shock, that are incompatable with life, could tell LE that the wearer was deceased at the time, and that the lack of recorded heart rate was not simply due to the FitBit being removed. Presumably this data, if available, would have been recovered from the FitBit server Cloud. There was no actual need for LE to physically possess the FitBit at the time the warrant was issued.

When you bleed out, as your overall blood volume and blood pressure falls, your heart rate will increase to compensate, until the circulating blood volume can't maintain oxygen perfusion of the tissues, even with compensating fluid compartment shifts. The heart rate will then "falter" as your BP crashes and you die, causing the heart rate to stop.

Also stab wounds can kill without a lot of external bleeding. A direct penetrating stab wound to the heart can cause a condition called "cardiac tamponade", with it's own characteristic pattern of tachycardia and sometimes dysrhythmias before death. In cardiac tamponade, the heart itself is pierced by the stab wound, and fills the non-elastic pericardial sac (that contains the heart) slowly compressing the heart and decreasing overall cardiac output, eventually causing death. How long to TOD after direct penetrating cardiac injury depends on the severity of the cardiac injury, and the penetrating object used, or if left in place. I have personally seen cardiac tamponade emergently addressed with a finger stuck directly into the heart, followed by a Foley urinary catheter which was then inflated, clamped shut, and pulled tight against the interior of the cardiac traumatic wound, with the catheter taped to the chest to hold tension and keep the hole successfully plugged until direct surgical intervention.

Please remember that "sharp force trauma" is a forensic mechanism of death, NOT a medical cause of death. "Cardiovascular collapse, secondary to an untreated, traumatic cardiac tamponade" IS a medical cause of death that would be suitable for a Death Certificate. The autopsy report findings released to the public are brief because of Iowa Law about public reporting in such matters, and because of medical and LE prudence. MT died as the result of injuries caused by sharp force trauma, per the public announcement by the State Medical Examiner's Office. This, again, is the mechanism that is felt to be the cause of death. 33 days of decomp in the elements can make it difficult to accurately and quickly determine the exact medical cause(s) of death.

Presumably a Homocide arrest warrant indicating an upper time range of 20:28 indicates that the swearing LEO had good reason to believe that the victim was dead by that time. It is a reasonable assumption that such a seemingly accurate time was not pulled out of thin air, but was determined from Cloud derived FitBit HR data. While NOT an EKG, the lowly FitBit can show diagnostic worthy rate and rhythm changes.
Thank you for this post, Al. It's very informative and opens the possibility she did not have a massive bleed out.

I don't know a lot about FitBits, but I have read on their website that if the band is not sitting properly on the wrist (too high, too low, off center), or too tight/not tight enough, the heart rate reading may not be accurate. There are also several studies that show low blood pressure affecting the accuracy, as well. Those two things make me question the FitBit as being that 8:28pm time indicator.
 
  • #928
could it be just as simple as that is the time he told LE? maybe he got back in the car and noted the radio said a specific time or at least said he did?
 
  • #929
Opinion - In the long run I think we will find out that this crime was about fantasy, macho, rejection/disrespect, and complete possession of someone.....Like many similar crimes have been.
 
  • #930
Why do you think LE pondered how he escalated to “abduction, kidnapping, murder” ?


“All of a sudden he just does it,” says Mitch Mortvedt, assistant director of the Iowa Division of Criminal Investigation, referring to suspect Cristhian Rivera.

“Who escalates to abduction, kidnapping and homicide that fast?”



Cops Wonder: If Mollie Tibbetts' Accused Killer Has No Record — Who Jumps to Murder That Fast?
I know I've mentioned this before, but couldn't it be possible that CR inflicted the fatal injuries on 385th Ave, however Mollie didn't die until on route to or in the cornfield? The abduction would then be him taking her off the road, the kidnapping would be transporting her in the trunk (alive and/or dying), and the murder would be the direct end results to the injuries he caused her on 385th. That would also account for the 1900 block of 385th incident location on the affidavit. JMO
 
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  • #931
I'm not sure the whole warrant wasn't written based on just what CR said. at the time of writing it I think they had him and what he had said and she was still in the corn field. I would think they would want the medical examiners report before they started mixing in what they may or may not have known from electronic devices. I also think if LE knew down to a time that she was dead that they would have told her parents she had passed. I do think LE could have had the fitbit info and had some strong thoughts about it.
 
  • #932
could it be just as simple as that is the time he told LE? maybe he got back in the car and noted the radio said a specific time or at least said he did?
I agree, that 8:28pm time could be many other things besides FitBit. It could be his cell phone data, OnStar or other vehicle GPS data, her cell phone, video footage, or something none of us has even thought of yet. MOO

And IMO, I think if FitBit had been definitive proof of her death, they would have told the family, but I don't know.
 
  • #933
I know I've mentioned this before, but couldn't it be possible that CR inflicted the fatal injuries on 385th Ave, however Mollie didn't die until on route to or in the cornfield? The abduction would then be him taking her off the road, the kidnapping would be transporting her in the trunk, and the murder would be the direct end results to the injuries he caused her on 385th. That would also account for the 1900 block of 385th incident location on the affidavit. JMO
No need to make this more complicated than it already is - CR has not been charged with kidnapping that I’m aware of.
 
  • #934
Using the Fitbit for the 8:28 time would be too risky-the DA would be spending a lot of time addressing whether or not the Fitbit data could be admissible. Technology is too new to be such an important part. In the trial, if they needed it, sure. But not for this.
 
  • #935
My only point was I don’t think he was necessarily shocked. He was leaning toward the likelihood of prior violent incidents that LE wasn’t yet aware of.

CR himself gave a lead to LE that he has a past history. He said he “blocks” his memory when he gets very upset. How would he know that if he’d never gotten upset in the past?
Regarding him blocking his memory when he gets upset. How would he know he does that unless someone has told him what he did when he was supposedly blocked I kind of relate this to be like the drunk spouse who is abusive but doesn't remember..until the person who was abused told them. I think he has been violent to others but conveniently blocked it out so he couldn't be held accountable
 
  • #936
No need to make this more complicated than it already is - CR has not been charged with kidnapping that I’m aware of.
Not that I'm aware of, either, but I was only responding to the questions regarding Mortvedt's quote about escalating to abduction, kidnapping, and murder.
 
  • #937
Regarding him blocking his memory when he gets upset. How would he know he does that unless someone has told him what he did when he was supposedly blocked I kind of relate this to be like the drunk spouse who is abusive but doesn't remember..until the person who was abused told them. I think he has been violent to others but conveniently blocked it out so he couldn't be held accountable

I don't think he has blocked anything out. I think he just doesn't want to put words to what he remembers.
 
  • #938
I don't think he has blocked anything out. I think he just doesn't want to put words to what he remembers.
Agreed!!!
 
  • #939
Right, by one-off I mean his first murder, at least his first murder he got called to the carpet for. He could kill someone in prison, but not on the street again. But who knows, perhaps he did other homicides. Will we ever get the real story from his ex? How he treated her? Doubtful.

Have to wait for the book...
 
  • #940
Respectfully, but IMO I am just not getting the vibe that CR was some cunning criminal with well laid plans who almost executed a perfect murder were it not for the cameras catching his car on video.

IMO he just seems more of an annoying little dude that frequently behaved inappropriately to females he came in contact with and then snapped on that fateful day. It even seems apparent that no one took his harassment seriously enough to report him even with the biggest case ever in their small town unfolding... they still thought he was just an annoying little dude.

I also just think he got super lucky for the five weeks and started to actually believe he got away with it. JMO. Who knows, maybe he even "prayed" that if he was not caught he would never do it again and thought that was working out.

Just my .02
 
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