Found Deceased IA - Mollie Tibbetts, 20, Poweshiek County, 19 Jul 2018 *Arrest* #44

[Al Hoffman]

Delete police

 

[Jaclin]

At common law, kidnapping consisted of the forcible abduction or stealing or carrying away of a person from one’s own country to another.

Kidnapping is the taking away of a person by force, threat, or deceit, with intent to cause him or her to be detained against his or her will.

Kidnapping may be done for ransom or for political or other purposes.

Abduction is the criminal taking away a person by persuasion, by fraud, or by open force or violence.

Although, abduction and kidnapping were considered separate and independent crimes, they are not always mutually exclusive.



Kidnapping v. Abduction – Kidnapping



Even the state laws do not differentiate between abduction and kidnapping. According to the law of New York, "A person is guilty of kidnapping in the first degree when he abducts another person and when:

(1) his intent is to compel a third person to pay ransom, or to engage in other particular conduct, or to refrain from engaging in particular conduct; or

(2) He restrains the person abducted for a period of more than 12 hours with intent to:

(3) Inflict physical injury upon him or violate or abuse him sexually; or ........



The Difference Between Kidnapping and Abduction in Legal Terms

well, it still seems to me that they're practically the same thing. The word kidnap is included in the definitions of abduction. The word abduct is included in the definitions of kidnap.

 

[kpm]

Thanks for finding that! Mollie was not kidnapped. She was abducted for the purpose of physical injury, but she was deceased in less than 12 hours.

Wouldn’t that mean she was kidnapped?

A person is guilty of kidnapping in the first degree when he abducts another person and when:

(3) inflict physical injury upon him or violate or abuse him sexually

 

[kpm]

No way. Jmo

Exactly, who would he be JB or CR

They weren’t married and I highly doubt they went though the courts

 

[otto]

Do you think he would have gone the court to hash child support and visitation in his position?

Not at all. He was at the mercy of his girlfriend to have access to his daughter, and that may have been linked to a monthly check.

 

[tmar]

With CR not missing work after Mollie's disappearance, no one
being aware of any changes in his behaviour (that we know of), I think CR's actions were all premeditated.
CR had a plan, carried it out and continued as if nothing happened.
His blackout statements are not to be believed.
CR is very cunning.
MOO.

 

[kpm]

well, it still seems to me that they're practically the same thing. The word kidnap is included in the definitions of abduction. The word abduct is included in the definitions of kidnap.

Right I agree

I just find it very curious that LE stated both when talking about how CR escalated to “abduction, kidnapping and homicide so fast”

 

[otto]

Wouldn’t that mean she was kidnapped?

A person is guilty of kidnapping in the first degree when he abducts another person and when:

(3) inflict physical injury upon him or violate or abuse him sexually

This is a weird detail, but my understanding is that when 1, 2 and 3 is listed, that means all three are part of the definition. When the information is listed in bullet points, then it can be one or another, but not all, of the information listed.

 

[kpm]

This is a weird detail, but my understanding is that when 1, 2 and 3 is listed, that means all three are part of the definition. When the information is listed in bullet points, then it can be one or another, but not all, of the information listed.

Ah, ok I get what you are saying

I’m not sure if it’s all or nothing

I do think once the ME report and the investigation is over more charges will be added and this one is a big probability, IMO

He literally admitted to abducting her and he inflicted personal injury and we have no idea how long he blocked his memory yet.

 

[otto]

With CR not missing work after Mollie's disappearance, no one
being aware of any changes in his behaviour (that we know of), I think CR's actions were all premeditated.
CR had a plan, carried it out and continued as if nothing happened.
His blackout statements are not to be believed.
CR is very cunning.
MOO.

Cunning, yes. Blitz attack. Brazen. Calculating.

He had seen Mollie jogging in the past. He knew her route. He most likely fantasized about how he would grab a woman off the street, he most likely knew that he would put her in the trunk of his car rather than the front or back seat. He most likely knew that there were no cameras in the area, although he made a mistake with one camera. He knew when she jogged and where she was most isolated. He knew that as soon as he started the attack he could not fail - or he would be instantly arrested, and he knew that once he had her in the trunk of his car he had to take her to a secluded area to fulfill his fantasy. There are so many moving parts in the abduction of a woman from a public street during daylight hours, that nothing should be left to chance if he wants to get away with it.

He wanted to get away with this, and he nearly succeeded. There was simply one small detail that he overlooked, and which police spent days to detect.

 

[Followfacts]

Can you repeat that, please? What is thanatomicrobiomic community and what exactly, is a community of body cavities? Can someone other than Dr. Javan summarize this in simpler terms?

My basic understanding talking to friends about the research and reading what I could of the research:

The body is a molecular life form, when the body stops living a process and stages of decomposition occurs. Temperature and days effect the breakdown of tissue, organs, and internal systems to breakdown.

Thanatomicrobiomic

This Term that was named for this level of study by Dr. Javan Ph.D.
She has no laymans way of describing it just academic scientific analysis of cells decomposing, chemical breakdown of what breaks apart, comes together, and what time tissue and organs die.

My very limited understanding
So someone kills you, you stop living but your body parts don’t all die at once but a process of dying (trace DNA) at the thanatomicrobiomic level. The research can test death at that level and with these DNA databases and research contributions for the HPMP human postmortem microbiome project. We have the DNA gene sequence and RNA is part of this work. If each cell has a job within an organ and organ system, instructions embedded in it to preform a function while body is alive and a reached homeostasis exists, then when body dies these cells continue to go do their job without the support of the other organs and these cells made up of molecules can work together and try to live and it takes longer for them to die even though there is no host to live in.

I’m no chemist, or biologist, just interested in science, but my academic friends in these areas can say and pronounce the words, their meanings and they are fascinated by the work... so obviously it’s beyond their current professional areas and education as most have master degrees in these fields. One friend works with Federal Government in Fish and Wildlife in Wyoming preserving from extinction one fish in a one creek, endangered species. Looked like a very small guppy to me when we went into the field to collect her water samples during my visits.
I want to say Ask SAL; but Al seems to get this as he worked in or around the science.

 

[MsBetsy]

well, it still seems to me that they're practically the same thing. The word kidnap is included in the definitions of abduction. The word abduct is included in the definitions of kidnap.

I think kidnapping more often refers to one being abducted and held somewhere for a certain period of time. Whether for the purpose of ransom or intent to cause harm. That's how I think of it. Imo. So Rivera abducted his victim, but not necessarily kidnapped her. That we know of.

 

[kpm]

Deleted and posted Iowa’s kidnapping laws in another post

 

[otto]

Ah, ok I get what you are saying

I’m not sure if it’s all or nothing

I do think once the ME report and the investigation is over more charges will be added and this one is a big probability, IMO

He literally admitted to abducting her and he inflicted personal injury and we have no idea how long he blocked his memory yet.

I'm hoping that there is enough evidence to convict him of sexual assault as well as murder, but that really depends on the condition of her body after 5 weeks. There were 2 inches of rain on July 19, which probably washed away most evidence from the clothing and exterior of the body. Internal evidence is the only hope, but 5 weeks of decomposition might have destroyed that.

 

[MistyWaters]

Good question! If Catholic not likely practicing as he killed a person, maybe when he was younger, indoctrination and sacraments but obviously rejection of the faith at some point to be able to kill. Superficial engagement in Catholic community would have given him some pretense/cover. As I’ve read about numerous serial killers from Websleuths posters referring to several cases and killers some out right rejected the religion they were raised in.

Forgiveness is central to many in faith communities.

This goes with the theory the murder wasn’t preplanned in advance, that the stabbing took place spontaneously because for whatever reason CR lost control of himself and his violent tendencies took over.

That CR was a practising Catholic, was later remorseful so he then confessed to any priest who absolved him of his sin from god and who also urged him to turn himself in (which he didn’t do) however it would explain why CR confessed after LE cornered him.

I can understand that story doesn’t hold nearly the fascination of a methodical serial killer with a secret, lurid past.

 

[kpm]

Iowa laws classify kidnapping into three categories: first degree, second degree and third degree.

According to Iowa Code § 710.1 a person commits kidnapping when the person either confines a person or removes a person from one place to another, without lawful authority and without the consent of the other to do so.

Moreover, the act of kidnapping must be accompanied by one or more of the following:

• The intent to inflict serious injury upon such person, or to subject the person to sexual abuse.

Kidnapping in the first degree occurs when the person kidnapped, as a consequence of the kidnapping, suffers serious injury, or is intentionally subjected to torture or sexual abuse.

According to Iowa Code § 902.9, the punishment for kidnapping felonies are life imprisonment for a class “A” felony, not more than 25 years of imprisonment for class “B” felony and imprisonment of not more than ten years and a fine of at least one thousand dollars but not more than ten thousand dollars for a class “C” felony.

Iowa Kidnapping/Abduction Laws – Kidnapping

 

[otto]

My basic understanding talking to friends about the research and reading what I could of the research:

The body is a molecular life form, when the body stops living a process and stages of decomposition occurs. Temperature and days effect the breakdown of tissue, organs, and internal systems to breakdown.

Thanatomicrobiomic

This Term that was named for this level of study by Dr. Javan Ph.D.
She has no laymans way of describing it just academic scientific analysis of cells decomposing, chemical breakdown of what breaks apart, comes together, and what time tissue and organs die.

My very limited understanding
So someone kills you, you stop living but your body parts don’t all die at once but a process of dying (trace DNA) at the thanatomicrobiomic level. The research can test death at that level and with these DNA databases and research contributions for the HPMP human postmortem microbiome project. We have the DNA gene sequence and RNA is part of this work. If each cell has a job within an organ and organ system, instructions embedded in it to preform a function while body is alive and a reached homeostasis exists, then when body dies these cells continue to go do their job without the support of the other organs and these cells made up of molecules can work together and try to live and it takes longer for them to die even though there is no host to live in.

I’m no chemist, or biologist, just interested in science, but my academic friends in these areas can say and pronounce the words, their meanings and they are fascinated by the work... so obviously it’s beyond their current professional areas and education as most have master degrees in these fields. One friend works with Federal Government in Fish and Wildlife in Wyoming preserving from extinction one fish in a one creek, endangered species. Looked like a very small guppy to me when we went into the field to collect her water samples during my visits.
I want to say Ask SAL; but Al seems to get this as he worked in or around the science.

That's cool, but I need even more layman style information. Are you saying that the body cells deteriorate not all at once, but in a day or two? Would that mean that if there was internal DNA evidence from the suspect, it may survive for a while, but being surrounded by decaying cell life, that DNA evidence would probably mutate into bacteria of some sort and be completely useless after 33 days?

That's a wild guess, so anyone who can help me understand, appreciate it.

 

[otto]

I think kidnapping more often refers to one being abducted and held somewhere for a certain period of time. Whether for the purpose of ransom or intent to cause harm. That's how I think of it. Imo. So Rivera abducted his victim, but not necessarily kidnapped her. That we know of.

That was my understanding as well. One difference between kidnapping and abduction is kidnapping requires being held for 12 hours, abduction does not. Both kidnapping and abduction can include violent sexual assault.

 

[cluciano63]

Jmo but why wouldn’t abduction often lead to murder? I mean, what is the perp going to do...hold someone, abuse or assault them and then let them go on their way? Not very often, imo...

Even if this was not an “abduction” in the sense that he swooped down and bundled her into his car and drove off...as soon as you remove a person from one location to another it becomes an abduction. And then the perp is faced with the decision, if not made already, as to what to do with the victim. Sadly, killing them is often less risky than just walking away. If LE was in fact “surprised” I think it was more by his story, saying he stopped her to “talk” or whatever and ended up murdering her. Not the idea of an abduction turning into a murder. Jmo

 

[Jaclin]

This goes with the theory the murder wasn’t preplanned in advance, that the stabbing took place spontaneously because for whatever reason CR lost control of himself and his violent tendencies took over.

That CR was a practising Catholic, was later remorseful so he then confessed to any priest who absolved him of his sin from god and who also urged him to turn himself in (which he didn’t do) however it would explain why CR confessed after LE cornered him.

I can understand that story doesn’t hold nearly the fascination of a methodical serial killer with a secret, lurid past.

MOO I don't know that he is a methodical serial killer, but I don't think his confession had anything to do with remorse. MOO When LE discovered CR was here illegally and perhaps some people CR truly cared about were as well, they had leverage.