Found Deceased IA - Mollie Tibbetts, 20, Poweshiek County, 19 Jul 2018 *Arrest* #45

[Al Hoffman]

As far as I know, there has been no mention by any family or friends of a
history of blocking memories after getting upset, and there were many discussions about how unusual that is. But who knows what the lawyers have found out by now. I wonder how much psychological testing has been done at this point.

With all the confusion and defense attorneys changing, likely not much testing has been done yet...but much will be done, at State expense, in the coming year!

JMHOO

 

[Deleted member 718]

Great find, it has a lot of info!

Sadly, the source quotes Radar On Line. Darn.

 

[stereopticons]

Event related amnesia is a medically rare but documented event. It can be brought on by a severe traumatic event, such as commiting a murder (though even experts agree that this could be abused as a subterfuge to avoid confessing to a crime). Pre-existing conditions, such as PTSD, can predispose one to such waking fugue states (my old school terminology, not current DSM 5 gospel).

Is there any wonder why their might be a PI going down to Mexico to document any violent events in CR's youth and adolescence. Events he either witnessed, was effected by, or participated in, involving Gang, or Narco terrorist or Policia violence?

Traumatic event triggered PTSD related fugue states and a condtion of disreality, could make for the basis of a great Deminished Capacity defence, especially if a history of violence in CR's past can be documented in his very troubled home country. There are 1000's of referees from South of the border currently seeking refuge in this country, fleeing death and violence in their own now 3rd world countries. There was a reason that CR left Mexico as a teen; could it have been because his life was threatened, perhaps because of something he saw or was made to participate in?

Now, before y'all tar and feather me, please realize that it is just this kind of narrative that would be at the heart of a Diminished Capacity defence to cause reasonable doubt in a sympathetic juror's mind.

"Dissociative Type of PTSD - PTSD: National Center for PTSD" (US Department of Veterans Affairs)

JIMHO

Dissociative episodes are possible in PTSD, though not common. When they do happen, there’s usually a trauma related trigger—I.e., a combat veteran hears a sound similar to gunfire and that triggers dissociation. I think you’d have a hard time convincing a person knowledgeable about PTSD and dissociation that CR’s story fits (I’m certainly not convinced) but you could convince a jury of lay people, I suppose.

 

[Charliegizmo49]

Yeah, I haven't seen anything about who is paying the new attorneys.

I’m thinking it may be a benefactor a group or a civil rights org.

 

[kpm]

Thanks kpm. I've been trying to find the msm link. Are you able to backtrack and link it? I think it was said they'd worked with other family members, but not how/who was paying.

"The family reached out (to) us and we met with them first and then we met with Mr. Rivera on Friday evening and he decided to move forward with the change of counsel," she said.

Frese said she and her husband have been privately retained by Rivera's family.


Mollie Tibbetts case: Suspect Cristhian Rivera changes lawyers

According to court documents and a short interview with Frese, Rivera changed lawyers over the weekend.

He was previously privately represented by Allan Richards, a criminal defense lawyer from Toledo. The court filing was published Monday morning.


Cristhian Rivera changes lawyers in his murder case


Richards says Rivera's family hired him and that he hasn't spoken with Rivera about being replaced.


Suspect in Mollie Tibbett's killing hires new lawyers


Rivera's previous lawyer, Allan Richards, is out and attorneys Chad and Jennifer Frese are in.

The husband and wife team work for separate law firms in Marshalltown.

This is the first case they've worked on together but not the first time they have worked with a member of Rivera's family.

Rivera’s Change in Legal Representation Likely a Strategic Move According to Legal Experts


ETA: To add new articles and clean up post

 

[Mica]

Delete duplicate post

 

[Deleted member 718]

I’m still looking for the article that states work was done for other family members, you are correct, it was stated!

I’m pretty sure Richards said it....



"The family reached out (to) us and we met with them first and then we met with Mr. Rivera on Friday evening and he decided to move forward with the change of counsel," she said.

Frese said she and her husband have been privately retained by Rivera's family.


Mollie Tibbetts case: Suspect Cristhian Rivera changes lawyers

According to court documents and a short interview with Frese, Rivera changed lawyers over the weekend.

He was previously privately represented by Allan Richards, a criminal defense lawyer from Toledo. The court filing was published Monday morning.


Cristhian Rivera changes lawyers in his murder case


Richards says Rivera's family hired him and that he hasn't spoken with Rivera about being replaced.


Suspect in Mollie Tibbett's killing hires new lawyers

You rock!

 

[Mica]

Again, not the link where he talks about "blocked memories" but some added info.

An Iowa student went missing. Now her death is at the center of the immigration debate.

"Rivera had a quiet, if poor, childhood in Guayabillo, a dusty ranch town about 100 miles from Acapulco in the Mexican state of Guerrero, said Bahena, his father. He "never had any problems" and did not show signs of violence, his father added.


Around his 16th birthday, Rivera left Guayabillo to find work in the United States, his father said.


"There are no jobs here, so he left," Bahena said, adding that his son crossed the border illegally and was undocumented in the United States."

If CR has a history of “blocked memory” from anger, as he says, I think his father would know about it, IMO. He lived with him for 16 years. According to his father, CR “never had any problems and did not show signs of violence.” Maybe CR’s “memory issues” began after arriving in Iowa. But I think it’s more of a bs story than not. IMO

 

[Al Hoffman]

I found it. It's his uncle who said it. But I'm not sure this is an okay source...

Mollie Tibbetts' Suspected Killer Wasn't Known For Having Memory Loss, His Uncle Says

"Radilla said he was unfamiliar with his nephew’s ability to too block his memory.

“I don’t recall him ever saying that,” says the uncle, who also was mourning the loss of the spunky, energetic Tibbetts."

This same source says he rented an apartment with a cousin early on in Blairstown while working at another dairy farm.

FANTASTIC article, even if from a non-WS-approved quasi-news source (mods will not approve, hint hint, wink wink).

The info sounds credible in light of what we know. It is from a known insider, and clears up a lot of points discussed up and down this thread, ad nauseam.

It looks like the RO blind pig may have actually found an acorn this time. But now, we all want truffles......

Still, I contend that it is not what the Uncle says that matters as much to the defense as does what the PI finds in Mexico hidden in CR's "dark and mysterious past".

However, the prosecution is now free to use what this Uncle has said in the clear, as a counter to any Diminished Capacity defence that may arise.

But, we ALL KNOW (wink, wink), that PTSD can lie just below the surface, like a Salty Crocodile, waiting to emerge at the behest of the right trigger.....you have all seen the movie Crocodile Dundee, haven't you?...gotta keep thinking of a narrative that will sway jurors, and plant reasonable doubt in their minds.

The mix here on WS, is just like the mix in a Jury pool, and in deliberations there may be as much deliberation and contention as we have seen in these oh so many threads!

JHMOO

 

[MistyWaters]

Dissociative episodes are possible in PTSD, though not common. When they do happen, there’s usually a trauma related trigger—I.e., a combat veteran hears a sound similar to gunfire and that triggers dissociation. I think you’d have a hard time convincing a person knowledgeable about PTSD and dissociation that CR’s story fits (I’m certainly not convinced) but you could convince a jury of lay people, I suppose.

If it’s true, after she asked him to leave her alone and threatened to call the police, then she started to run and so he chased her down.....he became the violent attacker of a smaller female who attempting to flee from him.

I’m not able to think of a dissociative episode connected to PTSD that would provoke such a scenario, if placing CR in a victim role.

 

[TL4S]

Event related amnesia is a medically rare but documented event. It can be brought on by a severe traumatic event, such as commiting a murder (though even experts agree that this could be abused as a subterfuge to avoid confessing to a crime). Pre-existing conditions, such as PTSD, can predispose one to such waking fugue states (my old school terminology, not current DSM 5 gospel).

Is there any wonder why their might be a PI going down to Mexico to document any violent events in CR's youth and adolescence. Events he either witnessed, was effected by, or participated in, involving Gang, or Narco terrorist or Policia violence?

Traumatic event triggered PTSD related fugue states and a condtion of disreality, could make for the basis of a great Diminished Capacity defence, especially if a history of violence in CR's past can be documented in his very troubled home country. There are 1000's of referees from South of the border currently seeking refuge in this country, fleeing death and violence in their own now 3rd world countries. There was a reason that CR left Mexico as a teen; could it have been because his life was threatened, perhaps because of something he saw or was made to participate in?

Now, before y'all tar and feather me, please realize that it is just this kind of narrative that would be at the heart of a Diminished Capacity defence to cause reasonable doubt in a sympathetic juror's mind.

"Dissociative Type of PTSD - PTSD: National Center for PTSD" (US Department of Veterans Affairs)

JIMHO

I posted an article back some threads that was something about Guerrero having a high incident of violent crime, body dump sites, and insurgent groups. Even though he lived in a small village, I'd be willing to bet the violence was everywhere.

 

[TL4S]

Sadly, the source quotes Radar On Line. Darn.

I know.

 

[kpm]

You rock!

Found it, I was wrong it was not Richards!


Rivera's previous lawyer, Allan Richards, is out and attorneys Chad and Jennifer Frese are in.

The husband and wife team work for separate law firms in Marshalltown.

This is the first case they've worked on together but not the first time they have worked with a member of Rivera's family.


Rivera’s Change in Legal Representation Likely a Strategic Move According to Legal Experts

 

[TL4S]

FANTASTIC article, even if from a non-WS-approved quasi-news source (mods will not approve, hint hint, wink wink).

The info sounds credible in light of what we know. It is from a known insider, and clears up a lot of points discussed up and down this thread, ad nauseam.

It looks like the RO blind pig may have actually found an acorn this time. But now, we all want truffles......

Still, I contend that it is not what the Uncle says that matters as much to the defense as does what the PI finds in Mexico hidden in CR's "dark and mysterious past".

However, the prosecution is now free to use what this Uncle has said in the clear, as a counter to any Diminished Capacity defence that may arise.

But, we ALL KNOW (wink, wink), that PTSD can lie just below the surface, like a Salty Crocodile, waiting to emerge at the behest of the right trigger.....you have all seen the movie Crocodile Dundee, haven't you?...gotta keep thinking of a narrative that will sway jurors, and plant reasonable doubt in their minds.

The mix here on WS, is just like the mix in a Jury pool, and in deliberations there may be as much deliberation and contention as we have seen in these oh so many threads!

JHMOO

Great post! Seeing how differently people can view the known facts really does show what a jury pool might look like. It will be interesting to see what defense is used and if it's bought.

 

[kpm]

FANTASTIC article, even if from a non-WS-approved quasi-news source (mods will not approve, hint hint, wink wink).

The info sounds credible in light of what we know. It is from a known insider, and clears up a lot of points discussed up and down this thread, ad nauseam.

It looks like the RO blind pig may have actually found an acorn this time. But now, we all want truffles......

Still, I contend that it is not what the Uncle says that matters as much to the defense as does what the PI finds in Mexico hidden in CR's "dark and mysterious past".

However, the prosecution is now free to use what this Uncle has said in the clear, as a counter to any Diminished Capacity defence that may arise.

But, we ALL KNOW (wink, wink), that PTSD can lie just below the surface, like a Salty Crocodile, waiting to emerge at the behest of the right trigger.....you have all seen the movie Crocodile Dundee, haven't you?...gotta keep thinking of a narrative that will sway jurors, and plant reasonable doubt in their minds.

The mix here on WS, is just like the mix in a Jury pool, and in deliberations there may be as much deliberation and contention as we have seen in these oh so many threads!

JHMOO

I don’t discredit when they are direct quotes, lol

That article is a wealth of info!

 

[stereopticons]

If it’s true, after she asked him to leave her alone and threatened to call the police, then she started to run and so he chased her down.....he became the violent attacker of a smaller female who attempting to flee from him.

I’m not able to think of a dissociative episode connected to PTSD that would provoke such a scenario, if aplacing CR in a victim role.

Any scenario I can think of requires a huge stretch—for example, perhaps his traumatic event involved the police and her threatening to call them triggered the dissociation. Like I said, it’s a huge stretch and I’m not convinced at all.

 

[TL4S]

I'm going to take down that article and send it to Tricia to see if she will approve it.

I don’t discredit when they are direct quotes, lol

That article is a wealth of info!

ETA: Nevermind. It won't let me edit.

 

[kpm]

I'm going to take down that article and send it to Tricia to see if she will approve it.


ETA: Nevermind. It won't let me edit.

I bookmarked the article, lol

 

[MyBelle]

Just to clarify a discussion from yesterday, an employee working “under the table” means they have an illegal arrangement with the company so that no employment records are kept whatsoever and so it appears that person is actually unemployed.

In the case of CR acknowledged as an employee by Yarrabee Farms, whether they choose to hand out a paycheque, direct deposit their payroll or pay employees the exact sum in cash is entirely their prerogative.

No reason for the scheduled visit by officials has been given but if significant irregularities had been found, they would’ve had the power to immediately shut down the farming operation and make arrests. That did not occur.

“....Yarrabee Farms issued a statement about the presence of law enforcement Thursday, saying it was a scheduled visit.

“Yarrabee Farms continues to cooperate with local, state, and federal authorities. Federal authorities requested to visit the farm today, and met with employees and owners. The visit lasted approximately two hours.”

Feds Visit Farm Where Man Charged with Killing Mollie Tibbetts Worked

My post you have responded to was in reference to the reason YF called a press conference: to correct their earlier public statement about the method YF used to check employee verification. The method YF did use is legal in the state of Iowa. The "off the books" discussion was in regard to why CR would tell the court he had no income. JMO

 

[CuriousCricket]

Right now there’s a lot of focus on CR but if this goes to trial I’m certain the State will place very heavy emphasis on Mollie who was the victim - an innocent, intelligent, aspiring young woman just out for an evening run, out from nowhere suddenly stalked by a lunatic who took her life. I can’t see a jury falling for a sympathy card regarding CRs rough life let alone his low grade level. That is not an excuse to murder an innocent person.

I see no excuse for his actions. MT seems an incredible human being who is gone because of his actions. My posts (and I suspect those of most everyone else) have been musings as I've attempted to fit the puzzle pieces together to understand the sequence of events that evening. But there can be no excuse for his actions. Even if he initially tackled her out of fear, tackling people is not acceptable. Are there areas in which I feel some sympathy for CR -- as a human being? yes. But nothing that excuses his actions on July 18. I don't see how a defense attorney can make this defensible to a jury. Hiding the body instead of calling for medical help once he "came to" is enough to send him to prison for life -- IMO.