ID - 2 year boy accidentally shoots and kills mother in walmart in ths US

[Brightbird]

How/why are guns so readily available to criminals in America?

 

[Montjoy]

How/why are guns so readily available to criminals in America?

Because of inadequate regulation, and the sheer volume of guns in the US. The US is about 5% of the world population, but owns 50% of the world's guns.
http://www.thewire.com/politics/2012/12/guns-in-america-statistics/60071/

 

[Confusion]

There are two main problems I have with guns for myself and many people who weren't raised around them (or had extensive training with them.)

The first is that I'm not the most coordinated person around, and I've been told many times that I'm an accident looking for a place to happen. I'd say I'm a prime candidate for accidentally shooting myself or someone else by dropping, bumping, grabbing wrong, or who knows whatever clumsy things I could do with a gun. I have an advantage over many people because there would seldom be any reason to have to touch one while anyone else was in my home. Since nobody else lives here, and I never have children around, it would most likely be me that I accidentally shot.

The other reason, which I think applies to a lot more people, is that a gun doesn't really do a lot of good unless you're willing to kill someone without hesitation. If you aren't willing to shoot when someone knows you have a gun pointed at them and tries to attack you anyway, you'll probably end up dead (possibly by your own weapon.) The same is true if you try to just injure the person rather than kill them. First, you'd be more likely to miss if you're just aiming at an arm or a leg, and second, many people can ignore pain and would still come at you after being wounded. If you don't shoot a place that will stop them in their tracks, you're probably better off without the gun. I don't think I could do that.

All MOO, as always.

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

There are two main problems I have with guns for myself and many people who weren't raised around them (or had extensive training with them.)

The first is that I'm not the most coordinated person around, and I've been told many times that I'm an accident looking for a place to happen. I'd say I'm a prime candidate for accidentally shooting myself or someone else by dropping, bumping, grabbing wrong, or who knows whatever clumsy things I could do with a gun. I have an advantage over many people because there would seldom be any reason to have to touch one while anyone else was in my home. Since nobody else lives here, and I never have children around, it would most likely be me that I accidentally shot.

The other reason, which I think applies to a lot more people, is that a gun doesn't really do a lot of good unless you're willing to kill someone without hesitation. If you aren't willing to shoot when someone knows you have a gun pointed at them and tries to attack you anyway, you'll probably end up dead (possibly by your own weapon.) The same is true if you try to just injure the person rather than kill them. First, you'd be more likely to miss if you're just aiming at an arm or a leg, and second, many people can ignore pain and would still come at you after being wounded. If you don't shoot a place that will stop them in their tracks, you're probably better off without the gun. I don't think I could do that.

All MOO, as always.

Good points.....you have to know thyself.

 

[Brightbird]

Because of inadequate regulation, and the sheer volume of guns in the US. The US is about 5% of the world population, but owns 50% of the world's guns.
http://www.thewire.com/politics/2012/12/guns-in-america-statistics/60071/

It all seems so circular to me. People don't want regulations partly because of a perceived disadvantage against a criminal with a gun. Lack of (effective) regulations make it easier for a criminal to get a gun. And then this increases people's perception they need a gun for defence. Surely America, with all it's intelligence, can find a way to stop so many guns falling into the wrong hands. I'm going to put my tin foil hat on for a moment and suggest that an industry that sells 50% of the worlds guns to 5% of the worlds population doesn't care whose hands they're in.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

How/why are guns so readily available to criminals in America?

Illegal black market of stolen guns. Generally it's illegal for felons to posses firearms in the United States so that makes a black market for stolen guns. It's the easiest way these thugs can arm themselves. Same thing for juvenile gang-bangers.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

It all seems so circular to me. People don't want regulations partly because of a perceived disadvantage against a criminal with a gun. Lack of (effective) regulations make it easier for a criminal to get a gun. And then this increases people's perception they need a gun for defence. Surely America, with all it's intelligence, can find a way to stop so many guns falling into the wrong hands. I'm going to put my tin foil hat on for a moment and suggest that an industry that sells 50% of the worlds guns to 5% of the worlds population doesn't care whose hands they're in.

BBM

I'm not understanding this comment. If your talking about a convicted felon then it's against the law in the US for them to possess a firearm. Verboten. Not allowed. Forbidden.

That's about as far as you can go with a gun law right?

 

[sonjay]

The other reason, which I think applies to a lot more people, is that a gun doesn't really do a lot of good unless you're willing to kill someone without hesitation.

That's a very good point, and anyone considering acquiring a gun for self-defense should know their answer to that question.

Years ago, I didn't have any guns. I wasn't against them, I just didn't particularly want one, or see any need for one. And with a young daughter, I thought it was safer to not have one in the house.

Until a man came into the house one evening when I was at home alone with my daughter.

At that moment, when I was desperately positioning myself between him and my daughter, and trying to figure out how to keep him from harming or killing both of us, I knew that if I had a gun I'd not hesitate to use it to protect my little one. The next day I bought my first gun. I knew the answer to the question of whether I could shoot someone. Yes, I could, I can, and I will, if necessary. I have no desire to, but I will.

Others may not have the same answer to that question. It should factor strongly into anyone's decision of whether or not to have a gun for self-defense.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

It all seems so circular to me. People don't want regulations partly because of a perceived disadvantage against a criminal with a gun. Lack of (effective) regulations make it easier for a criminal to get a gun. And then this increases people's perception they need a gun for defence. Surely America, with all it's intelligence, can find a way to stop so many guns falling into the wrong hands. I'm going to put my tin foil hat on for a moment and suggest that an industry that sells 50% of the worlds guns to 5% of the worlds population doesn't care whose hands they're in.

Sales, corporate growth, capitalist ideals are the driving forces behind this .. most of the arguments we see around gun ownership are actually a marketing campaign. Of course the USA gun lobbyists the NRA want more sales, that's what they are lobbying for after all - more $$$$

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2012/12/19/seven-facts-about-the-u-s-gun-industry/

 

[sonjay]

Sales, corporate growth, capitalist ideals are the driving forces behind this .. most of the arguments we see around gun ownership are actually a marketing campaign. Of course the USA gun lobbyists the NRA want more sales, that's what they are lobbying for after all - more $$$$

The NRA only wants legal gun sales.

Gun-grabbers like California Sen. Leland Yee want illegal gun sales. Yee, and people like him, are the ones putting guns in the hands of criminals. And the ATF. They have a pretty dismal record with their storefront stings.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

The NRA only wants legal gun sales.

Gun-grabbers like California Sen. Leland Yee want illegal gun sales. Yee, and people like him, are the ones putting guns in the hands of criminals. And the ATF. They have a pretty dismal record with their storefront stings.

True, because that is the only way to ensure the profits go back to the companies which pay for their services.

 

[sonjay]

True, because that is the only way to ensure the profits go back to the companies which pay for their services.

I see absolutely nothing wrong with firearm manufacturers making a profit from legally sold guns. Why is that even in question???

Leland Yee is a problem. And his buddy Shrimp Boy Chow. People like Yee are the problem. The NRA and U.S. firearms manufacturers are not the problem.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

The NRA only wants legal gun sales.

Gun-grabbers like California Sen. Leland Yee want illegal gun sales. Yee, and people like him, are the ones putting guns in the hands of criminals. And the ATF. They have a pretty dismal record with their storefront stings.

BBM

And so does the gun industry. They are just like any other industry. They want to promote their products to enhance sales.

I love capitalist ideals myself. The alternative is totalitarian oppression.

 

[Jovi Girl]

Who is Shrimp Boy Chow ?

 

[sonjay]

Who is Shrimp Boy Chow ?

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=shrimp+boy+chow

 

[CoolJ]

Worldwide, there is no discernible correlation between rates of gun ownership and homicide rates. This is pretty much the whole darn cherry tree:

View attachment 66848

Let's take the third world, underdeveloped and war torn countries out of the equation. Is that really what you want to compare America to?

Here is a more accurate picture of the correlation between gun ownership and homicide:

 

[sonjay]

Let's take the third world, underdeveloped and war torn countries out of the equation. Is that really what you want to compare America to?

Here is a more accurate picture of the correlation between gun ownership and homicide:

So wait, first you accuse me of cherry picking, then you want to start cherry picking to make your own point.

Anyway, since we're apparently allowed to use populations of our own preference for comparison, I'll go next: If you take the inner-city gangbangers out of the equation -- those who commit as much as 80% of all violent crime in the U.S. -- the U.S. rates are better than most of Europe. Those inner-city hellholes are our own third-world countries. The rest of the country, where legal gun ownership is high, has respectably low crime rates and firearm crime rates. The large cities where strict gun control laws are in effect and few people own guns legally, have the highest violent crime and homicide rates.

Hmmmm..... Did you know that knife crime has skyrocketed in both England and Australia since they enacted their gun bans? To the extent that both countries are now officially concerned about knife crime, and are enacting knife-control laws to try to get it under control?

That's because overall homicide rates and other crime rates are not affected by gun bans. Criminals who want to kill people or hurt people continue to do so at the same rates as always, they simply use different weapons. Are 100 people killed by knife crime somehow better, or more acceptable, than 100 people killed by gun crime?

 

[sonjay]

Hmmmm..... Did you know that knife crime has skyrocketed in both England and Australia since they enacted their gun bans? To the extent that both countries are now officially concerned about knife crime, and are enacting knife-control laws to try to get it under control?

It's illegal in England to carry a pocketknife with a blade over 3" long.
It's illegal in England to carry a pocketknife with a lock-back blade of any length.
It's illegal in England to sell a knife of any kind, including kitchen cutlery, to anyone under 18.
https://www.gov.uk/find-out-if-i-can-buy-or-carry-a-knife

Yet, they're still experiencing an epidemic of knife crime.

In Australia, the number of homicides remains constant, but knives are used more often as the homicide weapon of choice:
Analysis of the data indicated an increase in the use of knives as a proportion of all homicides, although the number of homicides remained relatively constant.
http://aic.gov.au/publications/current series/tandi/401-420/tandi417.html

This 15-year-old supports the gun ban, because guns have only one purpose, but then he goes on to make all the same complaints about Australia's knife laws that gun owners make about gun laws:
https://independentaustralia.net/politics/politics-display/australias-unfair-knife-laws,5860

 

[SStarr33]

so wait, first you accuse me of cherry picking, then you want to start cherry picking to make your own point.

Anyway, since we're apparently allowed to use populations of our own preference for comparison, i'll go next: if you take the inner-city gangbangers out of the equation -- those who commit as much as 80% of all violent crime in the u.s. -- the u.s. Rates are better than most of europe. those inner-city hellholes are our own third-world countries. The rest of the country, where legal gun ownership is high, has respectably low crime rates and firearm crime rates. The large cities where strict gun control laws are in effect and few people own guns legally, have the highest violent crime and homicide rates.

Hmmmm..... Did you know that knife crime has skyrocketed in both england and australia since they enacted their gun bans? To the extent that both countries are now officially concerned about knife crime, and are enacting knife-control laws to try to get it under control?

That's because overall homicide rates and other crime rates are not affected by gun bans. Criminals who want to kill people or hurt people continue to do so at the same rates as always, they simply use different weapons. Are 100 people killed by knife crime somehow better, or more acceptable, than 100 people killed by gun crime?
View attachment 66880

Bam!!

 

[Sonya610]

But everywhere I look, the statistics show us that in places where the availability of guns is lower, there is a lower incidence of people dying from guns. Including murder, suicide and accidental death.
Isn't that what everybody wants?

Yeah, and third world countries that have virtually NO swimming pools have almost no pool drowning deaths!

But hey if folks want to make another STRONG push for harsher federal gun control laws and bans on certain weapons by all means go for it!

We all know there was a strong attempt in 2013 which lead to MASSIVE firearm sales! The threat of banning AR style weapons was huge and a whole lot of people bought ARs just for that reason (I did!). Those weapons are grandfathered in now, folks will vote to keep them and it would not even be possible for the government to confiscate them at this point (no gun registration in most states means no way to prove who owns what).

The more weapons there are the harder it is to ban them so by all means if folks want to start another buying panic by trying to pass federal laws to for it. If it didn't work in 2013 (right after Sandy Hook with a strong push by the top office holders) good luck trying that again anytime soon.

BTW England may not have many firearm deaths but their overall violent crime stats are more than double of the US.