ID - 2 year boy accidentally shoots and kills mother in walmart in ths US

[oceanblueeyes]

Your chances of dying in your own bathroom, or being struck by lightning, far outweigh your chances of being beheaded, killed by a terrorist, or finding yourself suddenly being flung into a secret prison or something by a random dictator. hoh:

I agree with Montjoy, there is a psychological disturbance of some type going on when people cannot accurately and logically assess risks, and are so caught up in fear and paranoia that they cannot even go to the store with their kids without taking a gun.

The fear of these remote things happening is out of all proportion to reality.


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Ah but you see Obama did not call this man a terrorist. He said it was workplace violence and we have seen many cases where workplace violence has happened and caused many deaths.

The man who stopped the murderer from beheading another victim was also the CEO of this company.

IMO

 

[CHERIE.T]

I thought this was a victim friendly site?

Shame this poor deceased woman is now being labeled psychotic among other things.

Evidently it depends on the thread (subject) and the views of some, iykwim?

 

[CoolJ]

Because:









Stop with the accusations of craziness, psychotic paranoia, and other crap and we'll stop reacting emotionally.

Many people, and most politicians, who want more gun control are anti-gun, do ultimately want to ban guns, are hysterical, are naive, and do have a hidden (and sometimes not-so-hidden) political agenda. We've seen it before, and we'll see it again. We know that new regulations are promoted as "common-sense gun control" when in fact those regulations are not common sense, would do nothing to keep guns out of the hands of criminals, and are nothing but a step toward the ultimate goal of banning guns.

Want me to start linking to news articles about self-defensive uses of guns? Particularly ones outside the home, which happened because because the person made it a routine practice to carry daily wherever they went? I've got an endless supply of them, and more every day.

Do you wear a seatbelt only when you expect to get in an accident? Or every time you get in your car?

Carrying a gun is like that. We certainly don't expect to be attacked every time we go to a Wal-Mart or stop at a gas station to fuel up, or or any other routine daily activity. In fact, if there's somewhere that we expect to be attacked, we try to avoid that place if at all possible. But we know that attacks most often happen when they're not expected, and in order to be prepared, you have to have your gun on you despite not expecting the attack. It's not paranoia, it's common sense.

I don't think the majority of people who carry guns in the US are paranoid either. They were given a right and they make use of it.
But if you wish to talk about common sense; common sense to me says that if you drastically reduce the amount of guns you will drastically reduce the amount of gun deaths/injuries whether it be murder, suicide or accident.
Have a look at nations with strict gun control; less people have guns and that includes your average "". Therefore there is less a need for a law abiding citizen to believe they need to "protect themselves"
Have a look at other civilized nations, Switzerland for example, who have an extremely high gun ownership rate. They also have an extremely high suicide rate.
More guns = more needless death. Period.
Here in Canada, the idea of carrying a loaded gun with you as you shop with your children at Walmart is so foreign to us that it is just plain silly. But I understand how it might feel different to someone who grew up in that environment.

Now in a country like the USofA who grants everyone the right to own and bear arms I don't know what the answer is. There are 300 MILLION guns in the country. With that many guns I would say it is common sense that you will be safer if you yourself own one or two or three of those 300 million.

I have come to the conclusion that as a nation it is MUCH safer for your citizens if you have strict gun control. BUT if you have written into your constitution a right to own and bear arms it is safer for an individual to own guns.
IMO, America shot itself in the foot (pun intended) when they granted the right to own and bear arms and that DID create a "gun culture". But that ship has sailed, with 300 million guns there is no going back on having citizens relinquish their right.

 

[TrackerSam]

She can't justify anything even if she wanted to because she is dead. If she were alive and somebody else was a victim you don't think she would have to justify why she left her gun accessible to a 2 year old? That 2 year old could have easily shot himself or some innocent bystander.

She would have to explain why her 2 yr old was able to pull the trigger, but she doen't need to justify to anyone why she owns a gun, which is my point.

 

[TrackerSam]

What do you propose to do with people who are born here but don't like the laws? Ship them out?

Nothing. No action required.

 

[TrackerSam]

I have come to the conclusion that as a nation it is MUCH safer for your citizens if you have strict gun control. BUT if you have written into your constitution a right to own and bear arms it is safer for an individual to own guns.
IMO, America shot itself in the foot (pun intended) when they granted the right to own and bear arms and that DID create a "gun culture". But that ship has sailed, with 300 million guns there is no going back on having citizens relinquish their right.

Same old arguments made over and over again. Strict gun control has no impact on the thugs in the streets of Chicago and other places. Laws are pacifiers that make you feel all warm and fuzzy but never stopped anyone from breaking them........ever. You have drug laws in Canada, you also have illicit drug trade in Canada, etc. etc.etc. We don't stone people to death or throw acid in their faces. I personally couldn't care less what they do in other countries. We are not going to rewrite our laws because of a tragic accident or 100 tragic accidents. You know what's truly dangerous to children? That subject whose name may never be mentioned on WS.

 

[CHERIE.T]

Same old arguments made over and over again. Strict gun control has no impact on the thugs in the streets of Chicago and other places. Laws are pacifiers that make you feel all warm and fuzzy but never stopped anyone from breaking them........ever. You have drug laws in Canada, you also have illicit drug trade in Canada, etc. etc.etc. We don't stone people to death or throw acid in their faces. I personally couldn't care less what they do in other countries. We are not going to rewrite our laws because of a tragic accident or 100 tragic accidents. You know what's truly dangerous to children? That subject whose name may never be mentioned on WS.

bravo TS!

 

[CoolJ]

Same old arguments made over and over again. Strict gun control has no impact on the thugs in the streets of Chicago and other places. Laws are pacifiers that make you feel all warm and fuzzy but never stopped anyone from breaking them........ever. You have drug laws in Canada, you also have illicit drug trade in Canada, etc. etc.etc. We don't stone people to death or throw acid in their faces. I personally couldn't care less what they do in other countries. We are not going to rewrite our laws because of a tragic accident or 100 tragic accidents. You know what's truly dangerous to children? That subject whose name may never be mentioned on WS.

I think you missed my point. You are right, AT THIS POINT IN TIME gun control has no impact on the thugs in streets of Chicago etc. The ship has sailed, America is a gun loving country, best thing to do is make sure you are packing because it appears almost everyone else is. You can thank the 2nd Amendment for that reality.

 

[daisy7]

Of the population of women who have abortions, a higher percentage die than the percentage of the population who die from unintentional firearm injuries.

It's estimated that somewhere between 44,000 and 98,000 Americans die in hospitals each year as a result of medical errors.
Source: http://www.fluentmedical.com/docs/To_Err_Is_Human.pdf

1,000 people dead from unintentional firearm injuries (including approx. 400 children) vs. 44,000 to 98,000 from medical errors.

I bet that despite that number, most people here go to the doctor when they get sick or injured.

Why? Because we put that number in perspective. Out of the many millions of doctor & hospital visits every year, 44,000 to 98,000, while serious numbers, mean that it's highly unlikely that you will die as a result of medical error when you go to the doctor or hospital.

The likelihood that you will be killed by unintentional firearm injury is vastly lower than that.

It would be a far better use of your time to campaign against all the irresponsible doctors making all those fatal mistakes, and demanding new regulations to stop them. You would be far more likely to save lives.

Been following this thread, but this is my first post here. Not directed at you, just bouncing off your post. I have seen many posts on this thread that discount the number of children (and adults) who are killed or injured because a child got a hold of an unsecured gun. It seems that some are trying to argue that since this number is not as high as those that die from medical errors, car crashes or pool drownings, then we shouldn't worry about it and trying to impose regulations (such as mandatory gun safety classes before purchasing a gun) would be against 2nd Amendment rights. Am I understanding the flow of conversation correctly?

 

[TrackerSam]

I think you missed my point. You are right, AT THIS POINT IN TIME gun control has no impact on the thugs in streets of Chicago etc. The ship has sailed, America is a gun loving country, best thing to do is make sure you are packing because it appears almost everyone else is. You can thank the 2nd Amendment for that reality.

Thank you 2nd Amendment. Thank you very much.
At no point in history has law had an impact on those who choose to disobey them. America is a freedom loving country and the right to own guns is one of those freedoms.
If you're ever confronted by someone with a weapon of any kind, wave a book of laws at them.

 

[TrackerSam]

Been following this thread, but this is my first post here. Not directed at you, just bouncing off your post. I have seen many posts on this thread that discount the number of children (and adults) who are killed or injured because a child got a hold of an unsecured gun. It seems that some are trying to argue that since this number is not as high as those that die from medical errors, car crashes or pool drownings, then we shouldn't worry about it and trying to impose regulations (such as mandatory gun safety classes before purchasing a gun) would be against 2nd Amendment rights. Am I understanding the flow of conversation correctly?

No what started as a tragic story of a 2 yr old shooting his mother has been hijacked and turned into an anti gun thread.

 

[daisy7]

Reminder: We still have no idea how often children accidentally shoot and kill people

(snip)

What we do not know is just how often a child accidentally shoots and kills someone. We looked into the subject earlier this year after a 9-year-old girl in Arizona accidentally shot and killed her shooting range instructor with an Uzi, another shooting death that was so unusual — involving a child, an Uzi and a dead adult — that it was able to break through the noise and actually demand more attention, something that does not happen most of the time with gun deaths. And we were told at the time that the people and agencies who keep an eye on shooting deaths did not know for sure how often it happens.

t is a strange gap, this lack of information on accidental shootings involving children. This data is out there, of course, but the various agencies that compile statistics regarding shooting deaths said it has not been pulled together nationwide. There are media reports after these things happen, story after story after story of such unintentional shootings. And there are some systems that try to pull together the relevant numbers. The National Violent Death Reporting System, for example, combines information from death certificates, medical examiners and law enforcement reports to try to produce such data, but it operates in just 18 states.


(snip)

Great article for anyone interested in this topic: http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...-children-accidentally-shoot-and-kill-people/

 

[eucalyptuz]

@CoolJ:
As an Australian living in the USA, I think your comment above concisely defines the dilemma and I have come to think about this issue in the same way as yourself. I think the ship has sailed. Even the most modest suggestion of gun control eg: restricting access for those with mental illness, mandatory gun safety courses, requirement for homes with guns to have gun safes are met with outrage. There is such inflexibility in the mind set of people because owning a gun is a right written into the law. Laws can change but it seems that this particular law defines a country and a culture and the very suggestion of a change is deeply offensive to those raised in that culture. It has taken me 4 years of living in this country to truly understand that.

 

[daisy7]

No what started as a tragic story of a 2 yr old shooting his mother has been hijacked and turned into an anti gun thread.

I respectfully disagree -- we have seen both sides of the gun issue on this thread, with both sides having strong opinions as usually happens with this topic. I don't see how either view "hijacked" this thread? JMO.

 

[CoolJ]

Thank you 2nd Amendment. Thank you very much.
At no point in history has law had an impact on those who choose to disobey them. America is a freedom loving country and the right to own guns is one of those freedoms.
If you're ever confronted by someone with a weapon of any kind, wave a book of laws at them.

That's just my point. The chances of me(as a law abiding citizen) ever being confronted by someone with a weapon are minimal. I have never in my life that I can remember laid my eyes on a real life handgun other than what I see in the holster of a LEO. And that is the way it should be IMO. I would not feel "free" if every other person in my community was carrying an instrument designed for lethal force. But that is just me. I didn't grow up in a gun loving culture.

 

[gxm]

Or she just forgot it was in her purse. and she doesn't have to justify why she has it to you or anyone else.

Considering that she was shot by her own 2-year old in a public place, if she were alive, she'd most certainly need to explain ("justify") her negligence in gun safety. What if someone else, an innocent bystander, had been killed with her gun? What about the children and other adults who had to witness this tragedy because she "forgot" she had a loaded gun in her purse?

 

[LinasK]

For protection. That's why people get a concealed weapons permit.

If she had the gun on her person the odds that she would be unaware that her child was grabbing it would be slim. She could have taken action to stop him from getting a hold of the gun.

Having the gun in a purse sitting in a shopping cart doesn't allow for any feeling or awareness of what is happening with the gun.

JMO

BBM. Ummm, Walmart hires their own security guards. No need to play vigilante in their stores.

 

[CoolJ]

No what started as a tragic story of a 2 yr old shooting his mother has been hijacked and turned into an anti gun thread.

I don't think this has turned into an anti-gun thread. When a tragedy such as this occurs, it is normal for compassionate people to look to possible solutions as to how to avoid similar incidents.
Some believe the solution lies with various levels of gun control. Some point to other countries gun laws and point out how it is overall much safer to have limited access to guns. And some believe that everything is fine the way it is and the accidents that happen are far outweighed by the instances of using a gun in self defence.
My point is quite simply that if there were less guns in the hands of "thugs" there would be less a need for guns for self defense and therefore a drastically lower number of gun deaths in total. So, no, this is not about anti-gun. This is about finding ways to reduce needless deaths.

 

[LinasK]

What do you propose to do with people who are born here but don't like the laws? Ship them out?

Yeah, I don't like the 2nd Amendment the way it was interpreted. I'd rather only LE and the military have guns, so do I need to move to Australia???

 

[LinasK]

Don't own guns.

Believe me, I DON'T! I forced my husband to give up his gun and he did. It's the others who have guns who put us at risk. I shop at Walmart, I could've easily been a victim of this woman's son had I lived in Idaho.