ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 64

[isabella88]

IMO, what if there were one really really brilliant student who didn’t like BK and wanted to get back at him?

Do you have any links to anything that backs this up?

 

[jepop]

I agree that they did view footage early on but it was like looking for a needle in a haystack, but when the speeding car drew attention, they then reviewed the footage again and began to piece it together. JMO

Maybe, but it says in the CPA that there was minimal traffic in the local area in the wee hours. I was only focussed here on the mistaken assumption that video footage in local area had not been viewedby 2 weeks post crime.

 

[Friday Fan]

If DM (survivor) is called by the defense, they can ask her "What did you see when you opened your bedroom door?", "What did you tell the police you saw?", "Had you been drinking?", "Had you been asleep?", "Why didn't you call 911?", etc.

But if her account to police is as indicated in the PCA (i.e., though limited, what she DID see matches BK), I don't see what the defense would gain from calling her. As someone else posted, it would be like kicking to your "own goal".

I think it's more likely the prosecution will put DM on its witness list and the defense will object that her testimony is more prejudicial--some jurors give undue weight to eyewitness testimony and DM's view of the intruder was restricted--than probative--i.e., useful, since she couldn't positively identify BK. I'm not a lawyer and I can't speculate as to how the judge will rule on such a motion.

Likely, she will testify and it will be short and sweet. Defense likely won't do too much on cross..

Her testimony will establish that there was someone in the house and that she saw the person several times. This is crucial to proving that there was one intruder, approx time etc etc.

Besides similar build (which is lots of people) and eyebrows (unkempt?? bushy?? lots of people have similar brows) there isn't much that implicates BK....MOO

The defense will likely object to her description of him.

 

[wary]

Then I think that brilliant student would have maybe short-sheeted BK's bed, or, if really miffed, let the air out of his car tires. I don't think that brilliant student would have secretly gathered BK's DNA, placed it on a knife sheath, then savagely murdered 4 people, leaving behind the sheath.

And I don’t think it’s likely that the brilliant student would have ‘borrowed’ BL’s car, and phone, and circled around and around the Moscow address, and returned them, without BK even knowing.

 

[Boxer]

Even if one person was the original target, he must have been prepared to kill anybody he came across. At that point anyone in the house would become targets. He must have seen the five cars parked in front so likely would have known the house was full. He also may have seen lights turned on inside and the doordash delivery. Yet he still went inside with the intention to kill people.

Did he see the DD driver? Wasn’t that just before he got there?
Wonder if he practiced sneaking around in houses where people are sleeping, had experience with how unconscious sleeping people are.

 

[SophieRose]

It was heard on a "distorted audio" and described as a loud thud by whomever was listening to it. IMO, someone else could listen to that same distorted audio and describe the sound as a slam and someone else could listen to the distorted audio and describe it as a bump. IMO, until we can all hear that distorted audio for ourselves, we're not going to know what it is and maybe not even then will we know. Even if D.M. says those were the exact sounds she heard at the exact time she heard them, there will be audio experts brought in to assess the validity that those sounds could be picked up by that camera's audio.

jmo

Here's where that camera was:

Moscow Homicide

A Moscow police officer talks to residents of a neighboring home as part of a homicide investigation at 1122 King Road on Sunday, Nov. 13, 2022, in Moscow.

www.khq.com

 

[10ofRods]

Criminal Justice

The Ph.D. Program in Criminal Justice offers an interdisciplinary education in the field of criminology and criminal justice. It prepares students for careers of research, scholarship and teaching.

www.gc.cuny.edu

As an aside, I've been thinking for awhile that if Bryan were in any way "brilliant," he would have been better off applying to The John Jay College of Criminal Justice in NYC.

They offer two Ph.D. Programs and the entire college, as its name testifies, is focused on Criminology.

IMO it would certainly have been easier on the family as it is so much closer to the Poconos area.

I didn't check if they have on-site housing, but I know people who live in the Poconos and commute daily to NYC for work. That would not be cost-effective for a student, I understand, but I wonder if his family ever considered it.

It's a very prestigious and renowned college which has educated many of the premier criminologists around the country.

I wonder if either Bryan couldn't cut it scholastically, or had his reasons to want to be far from home.

He would've blended in more in NYC where people ignore others' eccentricities, but I must say I'm relieved he wasn't here.

Just some speculation.

Well, yes, of course. It's a much higher ranked program with way better employment rankings after completion.

But, with a co-terminal Master's degree from DeSales and no relevant work experience (security guard doesn't do it - internships and jobs with actual agencies does it), he couldn't do that.

I will bet a month of lunch money that Bryan did apply to Jay but didn't get in. SPECULATION. We will never know.

 

[Auntie Cipation]

Most plausible reason for a "thud" IMO is a trunk being slammed shut.

We have no timestamp on the thud, btw.

Back when LE was removing furniture from the house, one of the photos in the news was them moving what looked like a white desk, with visible blood smears.

Whenever I see the reference to a thud, I picture a person (whether a victim or the perp) stumbling against that desk and the desk then making a THUD against the wall.

MOO

 

[Nova]

Not necessarily. Prosecution likely would call upon a detective that took her statements and that detective would testify what she stated.

My own lawyer tells me there are numerous exceptions to the hearsay rule--a confession might be such an exception--but the mere fact that something was said to a detective isn't one of them, as far as I--not a lawyer--know.

 

[10ofRods]

yes only one print in blood* has always seemed odd to me

* Paraphrasing the details in the PCA re the latent print ( blood test followed by Amino black - might be a typo for Amido)

Only one latent print was relevant. Latent prints cannot be seen without special treatment. DM's words caused them or perhaps they already were think of...doing a different test.

There cannot be just one print in blood. They should find (two paces away) the same footprint with slightly more visibility. And so forth. And they probably already had prints - but perhaps not out to that part of the hallway.

I have been mystified all along by the lack of blood footprints (on the deck, given the hasty retreat) and now, down the hallway. Why not more blood footprints?

Because he planned exactly how to execute the most blood-free murders he could, up until he ran into Xana.

IMO the thud is one of the victims hitting the floor. Sounds like X was out of bed

If they have video of BK parking, they may very well have video of him getting out of the car and walking towards the house. They are very confident he was acting alone so I lean heavily that he was alone too

If he threw her to the floor (or wall) in a manner so as to make a thud audible from 50 feet away (with an intervening wall), then I am going to claim that he smashed her into the floor/wall and there will be ample forensic evidence on her body at autopsy to reconstruct that.

 

[Kcmom3*]

IMO, what if there were one really really brilliant student who didn’t like BK and wanted to get back at him?

Idk, people keep questioning why he would bring his own car and knife and that this was the stupidest thing he could have done. So…what if the killer didn’t bring his own car and knife? It would not be that difficult for someone to get into his apartment, take his keys, grab a knife from his collection and return before he wakes up. He could have figured out he was being framed and thats why he was thoroughly cleaning his car and disposing of trash at neighbors several WEEKS after the murders. To me, this actually seems more plausible than a criminology phd student making so many incredibly basic mistakes.

 

[ktm44]

I don’t see what difference it makes? JMO

It matters.

Ha. Well, no. I grew up with manual transmissions, various road conditions and so on. I can lay rubber with a manual with ease (people stare at me these days if I say that).

BK obviously did not. In keeping with "not ready to launch" but launched nonetheless.


I would not be surprised. I think the families should get those facts and evidence, and I think Chief Fry is a very humane person.

There's a version of this audio floating around in various places. I have no idea if it is actual. But it's possible that SG (as I would) tape recorded every bit of everything he got via phone or otherwise from LE.

Unless things are different in the US, my family only got progress reports but were not involved in the unassembled evidence nor were we offered speculation.

We were advised to speak to the media but also advised that sharing information on the investigation was unwise.

In our case, there was no justice, mainly for much the same reasons I fear may cause problems for this and I really hope I’m wrong.

 

[Nova]

Has been answered as yes I believe. The defense is entitled to the surviving roomates's police statements. Makes sense to me. The defense can call DM to take the stand if they want.

Sorry if my earlier post was redundant (these threads are flying fast), but you seem to be conflating two different things: (1) what the defense is entitled to receive via reciprocal discovery; and (2) what is admissible as evidence at trial. These two things are not the same, nor are they governed by the same rules.

(Note: even before states started requiring both sides to "share", there was a universal principle that the prosecution had to share any evidence that was exculpatory to the defendant. History shows, however, that some DAs play fast and loose with the concept of "exculpatory".)

 

[10ofRods]

I ask again -- where is the source confirming BK was at risk for losing his TA position, or was being penalized for the low grade he assigned his students? Thanks in advance!

It's speculation. I do believe I've put JMO and MOO everywhere (even though it's also a professional opinion, one should take it with a grain of salt).

I'm pretty sure that any department that has funding independent of the public model for the state it's in (as I'm claiming and others are indicating for the Criminology Doctoral Program) is also pretty tough on its students. Professors have to agree to receive a student as a TA or RA, from semester to semester. They're being given money that many other students don't get.

Therefore, professors try very hard not to choose/retain students who are a problem. A professor who goes all the way to mass confrontation against a TA is either 1) scared for her own job or 2) thinks he's a real problem. IMO.

So what happened is this. BK gets a great position at a well-funded (but not super highly ranked) doctoral program in criminology. He finally gets to launch. He is assigned (according to people here) 20 hours of TA-ing a week (possibly his first hourly paid job since just after high school). It doesn't pay much, but he gets free tuition.

What happens if no one will take him as a TA in Spring? Hmmm. No graduate student has ever been told that they can keep their job no matter what - there are lots of rules to follow, specifically Title IX.

SO, there are 150 students who complain about BK (apparently, according to MSM). This is big. This is in the week before the murders, IIRC. Then, the next week after being admonished and confronted, he returns to grading and gives ever student 100% on everything. This is a dishonest approach, but in my world, that's a big middle finger to the prof and to academia. This is no bueno. He knows that.

But everyone says he's all chipper and happy. Then - when the Elantra issue comes up, he's all sleepless and tired.

The prof and the students thought they had "effectuated change in the status of BK's complaint situation."

Instead, unbeknownst to them, he has just committed a quadruple homicide.

IMO. Make of it what you will. But he probably thought he was going to lose both his grad school position AND his free tuition (to join a different program would have meant...tuition again). I personally don't understand programs that do this (offer first year students so much when the program itself is not #1-5 in the rankings) but I suppose they're trying really hard to recruit the best students they can. This whole situation leaves WSU's Criminology Program as yet another community victim.

Is my point. IMO.

 

[Observant-ADHD-ENFP-BSc]

Exactly! In my family's case, I suspect part of the delay was the most pertinent next of kin was also in the wreck and was unconscious in a hospital, leaving people scrambling to determine who would be notified next.

In any event, my family has never blamed LE for that, and I can't even imagine how much more complicated it was to find the next of kin information for 4 people at one time. MOO

That's why I have 4-5 people as emergency contacts on my phone, so if I am with some of them and we are all unconscious or worse, there would still be someone to contact.

 

[WingsOverTX]

My oldest has her PhD in biomedical engineering. She chose grad school because her employer paid the tuition (the U is about ten blocks from the lab where she worked) provided she agreed to work there during the completion of her dissertation, et al, and for five years thereafter. She chose her undergrad college because they offered her a full academic ride (tuition, books, fees, but not living expenses). For her it was all about $$$ and quality of education. I'm guessing BCK was willing to move cross country for similar reasons. Plus, at age 28, he may have been ready to empty the PA nest.

I'd like to know what other PhD programs received inquiries or applications from him, if any.

Did a "mentor" at DeSales help with his decision or encourage him to pursue a particular placement?

Are any DeSales classmates studying at WSU or UI?

I find moving to Pullman an interesting choice. After a lifetime of cold PA winters, I might have cast my eye on Florida if I wanted a "change".

moo

 

[maskedwoman]

IMO, what if there were one really really brilliant student who didn’t like BK and wanted to get back at him?

So, basically your idea is that someone akin to Sherlock Holmes nemesis Moriarty decided to:

1)frame BK for murder,
2) either knew he already owned a knife and a sheath and stole it, or got him to put his DNA on a sheath,
3) knew enough of his habits to lure him to a house he's driven to a dozen times, always either late at night or very early in the morning
4) killed four innocent people, and missed two
5) left the sheath beside two of the bodies,
6) and did all of that without showing up on the various security cameras themselves

I wouldn't classify that as not liking someone. That's hating someone with every fiber of your being. BK would have had to work hard to make someone hate him that much just since moving to Washington. Surely there would be evidence of that relationship.

And in my book, being willing to murder 4 innocent people just to get back at one other person, would make that person a total psychopath. If we assume that the masked person inside the house is "Moriarty", and not BK, then that person also missed D peeping out her bedroom door and left no evidence of themselves behind at all. If he didn't kill anyone, but was lured there, and never came inside, he wouldn't have known anyone was dead. Why flee the scene?

If he didn't know people were dead, he should have been absolutely freaked out when SWAT busted in and arrested him for four murders. Yet his PA PD said he was very calm, which sounds like he wasn't that surprised. Why didn't he at least tell the police they had the wrong person? Or that he was framed? I would even be telling the press when they perp walked me into the courthouse.

 

[10ofRods]

Me too. When I have been extremely distressed I have said similar to myself.

Me too (although rare). Others I know do it way more often. I find I do it more as I get older. When I am *very* distressed, I do speak softly out loud. "Just get your purse; it's better to drive yourself; the emergency room isn't that far; you're fine."

Quietly.

IMO, this is all speculative. There is nothing to back this up. All of this info is coming out after BK has been in custody. All this bs floating out of the woodwork

He wrote it years before the events. Have you not read it?

He wrote about it continuously from about age 15-18. Then he did a project in community college based on it. And the cure/resolution rate for VSS and its symptoms is 0% (I'm trying to find a more optimistic outlook, I'll post if I do).

 

[10ofRods]

I'd like to know what other PhD programs received inquiries or applications from him, if any.

Did a "mentor" at DeSales help with his decision or encourage him to pursue a particular placement?

Are any DeSales classmates studying at WSU or UI?

I find moving to Pullman an interesting choice. After a lifetime of cold PA winters, I might have cast my eye on Florida if I wanted a "change".

moo

We will never know because FERPA.

At least, I don't think so - maybe a criminal lawyer can weigh in on whether a criminal subpoena trumps FERPA.

 

[jepop]

Sorry if my earlier post was redundant (these threads are flying fast), but you seem to be conflating two different things: (1) what the defense is entitled to receive via reciprocal discovery; and (2) what is admissible as evidence at trial. These two things are not the same, nor are they governed by the same rules.

(Note: even before states started requiring both sides to "share", there was a universal principle that the prosecution had to share any evidence that was exculpatory to the defendant. History shows, however, that some DAs play fast and loose with the concept of "exculpatory".)

All good, 'I actually just deleted my reply. But thanks for responding. I'm pondering what hearsay is again at the moment IN RELATION to Dylan's police statement. Already have an enquiry out on this thread. I am no longer sure whether LeBar calling her current police statement hearsay (at this momemnt in time) in yesterday's Daily M article is correct, and also am unsure that he even actually did that as the Daily M artcicle is so sloppy and misleading in the paragraph where LEbar is quoted.

Bryan Kohberger's ex-attorney shrugs off evidence used to arrest him

University of Idaho murder suspect Bryan Kohberger's ex-attorney said while there is 'strong circumstantial evidence,' viewed individually, it could be easily attacked.

www.dailymail.co.uk