ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 64

[Which_pancake]

RBBM
I think this is very important to remember & consider.

Yes, he has a concerning medical history (if Tapatalk is true) & perhaps even a psychiatric one, but he was still functioning at a high enough level to successfully complete ADLs (activities of daily living), attend classes, etc.

Focusing on his more than adequate level of functioning is especially important if his defense uses medical & other challenges he has experienced to mitigate his planning & choosing to act on that plan.

These are not crimes of sudden passion. They are not happenstance. They are calculated & premeditated. (ALL MY OPINION ONLY)

Kaylee might be enjoying backpacking in Europe right now; Maddie might be hanging out with her boyfriend & his family; Ethan might be practicing his golf swing; and Xana might be visiting her sister in Pullman were it not for BK's choices.

I absolutely agree with this. AFAIK there are no statements from anyone who interacted with him recently that indicate he has any serious mental illness.

And as for Tapatalk, it has not been verified as written by BK. As I understand it, it was originally uncovered by 4Chan, or at least some other social media site. The New York Times did not appear to do any further verification, just reiterated the same information noted by others. There are a number of coincidences and it seems like it could be BKs account, but it has not been verified, at least IMO.

 

[Dotta]

I absolutely agree with this. AFAIK there are no statements from anyone who interacted with him recently that indicate he has any serious mental illness.

And as for Tapatalk, it has not been verified as written by BK. As I understand it, it was originally uncovered by 4Chan, or at least some other social media site. The New York Times did not appear to do any further verification, just reiterated the same information noted by others. There are a number of coincidences and it seems like it could be BKs account, but it has not been verified, at least IMO.

100% agree.
This Ttalk seems fake, or if genuine, Im almost certain it was not BK.

JMO

 

[drmrgrl]

This makes sense! I think it's reasonable to speculate on BK's perceived failures / loss of self worth in relation to a new and very important (to him) job he had as a Criminology PhD student. I just wondered if there was a source or interview that implied this was true, but again, I think it makes a lot of sense.

Weird, though, to imagine him stalking victim(s) at 1122 King road as early as August, when he just began his program, if we follow this line of inquiry.

IMO, I see a power struggle brewing.

There really is no way to do a plea deal. In a plea deal you plead guilty and in exchange prosecutors drop some charges or drop a felony down to a misdemeanor or offer less time to serve than you would get if you lost at trial, or offer a combination of these, etc....

No way prosecutors will offer BK less than LWOP or drop any of his 5 charges. The only possible way for a plea to happen is if BK were charged with the death penalty and he agreed to plead guilty to all 5 charges and agreed to give a Proffer (testimony) to the prosecutors detailing why and what he did including all the planning and purchases made for the murders, how he picked his victims, when did his plan start, etc...

Then the prosecution might drop the DP for LWOP. But the families would have to agree to this and the judge would have to accept it on behalf of The People Of The State Of Idaho.

Here is an example of what his LWOP could look like, about what I expected, protective custody.

MSN

NewsNation host Ashleigh Banfield asked Levine, the founder of Wall Street Prison Consultants, what would happen to Kohberger if he ends up in the state penitentiary and what would his jail circumstances look like.

"Well, most likely he's gonna be in protective custody because if they let him in 'general population' [there's a] good possibility somebody is going to try to take him out and kill him," Levine said. "You'll get a lot of street cred in a prison by committing violence against somebody who's an informant, somebody who's a child molester, somebody that abuses women. So his life is pretty bleak."

Levine, a former federal inmate himself, predicted that Kohberger is expected to undergo a 23-hour lockdown, adding that this is what he has to "look forward to the rest of his life."

He also said that Kohberger might not get regular visits like everyone else, and that prison guards will probably bring the telephone down to him where he will have to reach out to it from his cell to use.

IMO, well he will have a lot of time to study. Maybe that’s what he wants? IDK

 

[jepop]

I can't remember exactly either - but a whimper from a neighbor's camera wouldn't mean much -- in my opinion -- unless it caught the sound of a victim that was outside, and I don't think any were outside at any point. Maybe BK whimpered as he left the house? Who knows? But, whimpers are typically pretty soft (MOO) so I doubt one that occurred inside a house next door would be picked up on a neighbor's camera.

I like to know what I am referring to and not guess when there is no need, so I just checked the PCA to be sure. It is page 4. The audio picked up a thud and what sounded like voices and/or whimper at 4.17am. Paraphrasing as I seem to be unable to copy and paste but here is the link. Page 4.

https://s3.documentcloud.org/docume...hibit-a-statement-of-brett-payne_redacted.pdf

ETA: I have no idea what it means, was just responding to original poster who attributed the thud to DM, not the audio!

 

[Mad Hettie]

Have the toxicology reports come back yet, or has that been swept aside in the arrest of a suspect?

At one point, there were a lot of professional opinions out there suggesting at least some of the victims might have been drugged in some way to make it easier for an assailant.

I think this case, like water, will follow the course of least resistance. So it’s a stretch for me to hear that a homicidal maniac went to school to study how to kill people, got to the PhD level and totally botched it murdering people he had zero connections with. If BK is guilty, there is far more to his story and probably more people on LE’s radar.

The more likely story is that it is someone they knew. I know about the DNA, yes, which could have been brought in from a flea market item. I am still waiting for more proof, like the rest of us outside the case. I do think it’s interesting that the toxicology reports were not revealed, at least as far as I can tell. If they were drugged, what would that mean for the case?

 

[drmrgrl]

Were there two parties?

ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Died in Apparent Homicide, Moscow, 13 Nov 2022 ****Media Thread**** NO DISCUSSION

TRANSCRIPT. CAPTAIN GIVES BRIEF UPDATE 12TH DECEMBER. Captain - Good morning, my name's Roger Lanier. I'm the Captain with the Moscow Police Department. I'm in charge of the Operations Division. And today is Dec. 12th, Monday. I want to give you an update on the King Rd. homicide...

www.websleuths.com

Mom - Kaylee just left home, she just left on Friday.. she left on Friday morning to go to a Pi Phi party and she had just bought a brand new Range Rover and she just.. she contemplated all day long, back and forth, whether she should go home because she just really wanted to show it to Maddie and some other friends and whatnot. And, she's just like 'mom, I'm gonna go, I'm gonna go to the Pi Phi party and I'm gonna.. Maddie's gotta see my new ride' and I'm like 'for sure', like I mean, it was nice, it was really nice. She'd just bought it that day, all her own, and I talked to the girls on... she had a fun time on Friday night, both of the girls, and then both of the girls texted me on Saturday.

IMO, just the fact that KG went to Moscow on a whim makes it all the more heartbreaking.

 

[jepop]

I absolutely agree with this. AFAIK there are no statements from anyone who interacted with him recently that indicate he has any serious mental illness.

And as for Tapatalk, it has not been verified as written by BK. As I understand it, it was originally uncovered by 4Chan, or at least some other social media site. The New York Times did not appear to do any further verification, just reiterated the same information noted by others. There are a number of coincidences and it seems like it could be BKs account, but it has not been verified, at least IMO.

Yes, I am erring on the side of caution with the taptalk until I see proof of verification that it was BK.

ETA: As for mental illness I'm not a fan of armchair diagnostics from a digital distance.

 

[TL4S]

I've thought if there was a struggle in Xana's room it's possible someone or something could have hit the wall with a big thud loud enough to be captured on the neighbor's cam. If voices can be heard within the walls a collision with that outside wall could be recorded?

This is what I think.^ We know DM heard noises upstairs first, then crying and talking from X's room, where two people, including a man the same size as BK, were killed. We know the camera was stated to be close to X's wall and picked up voices or whimpering and a thud, along with dog barking at 4:17. (SG said the coroner said there was a real battle going on in that room, fwiw.) Then DM saw a man walking towards the sliding door. Then the Elantra leaves. To me, the whole picture seems to be a couple minutes of violence in that room, which DM likely heard and part of which was included in the PCA. The thud then makes sense to be part of that violence, imo. If the thud was car related, why not put it after the paragraph about DM seeing the man waking towards the exit, rather then before it? And with footage of the car leaving the scene, why talk about neighborhood sounds at all in an arrest PCA?

 

[Which_pancake]

For the thud, I'm thinking either the sliding glass door (given the time) or possibly a big, late blow that knocked someone against the window or into furniture that fell over.

Do we know exact details about that camera? I can't find whether there really was one or not on the back of that house. I know about the one in front. The house listed by street number in the PCA.

Right, I think people are assuming that it is the one on the front porch that can be seen in some early media photos of that house, but the PCA doesn't say. There very well could be other cameras on other parts of the house. MOO

 

[Which_pancake]

But if he really suffered from some mental illness from early age, wouldn't he be under some psychiatrist's care?
I mean, is it not obvious to seek MEDICAL help instead of curing oneself with heroin or other drugs?

My mind boggles!
I really do not get all this

JMO

IMO if he had a diagnosed mental illness, his PA lawyer would have instructed him to answer "yes" when asked if he had a condition or medication that could affect his understanding of the extradition proceedings, but he said No.

 

[CSIDreamer]

Their was a Pi Phi party that Kaylee wanted to go to. Maddie and Xana are both in Pi Phi sorority. There has been no mention at all of a party at their house with 150 people the night before until the TV show last night. That explains all those cups and dishes stacked up in their kitchen.

150 people would be stacked like cordwood in that house unless all the bedroom doors were open. JMO

 

[jepop]

Thank you very much. No wonder my lawyer said she couldn't recall all the exceptions offhand (her main job is as a federal public defender for appeals, so this is her bailiwick, except she isn't an expert on Idaho)!

For those who don't want to read acutename's entire link, most of the exceptions deal with the subject matter and whether the statement was made at the time or shortly after its content occurred. I read quickly, but I saw no exception for having said something to a member of LE. (Again, if somebody offered a sworn affidavit to the DA, that might be different because what was said was under oath.)

The survivor's eyewitness testimony is hearsay in the PCA and remains so until she testifies under oath and, absent an exception, is made available for cross-examination.

But what about DMs sworn statement to police, her witness statement, which I am assuming was extracted from in some form to be included in the PCA. Not just something that she casually said to an officer, but a witness statement, taken down at the station, signed and witnessed, say on November 13th sometime. Genuine question, as in what do you think? Would that be included in the exceptions? Another poster here seemed to think so if I read them right.

ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 64

The PCA states that his phone number was provided to Moscow PD in the August traffic stop. If they are writing you a ticket (he got a seatbelt violation) they need a way to contact you I've gotten plenty of traffic tickets. Never been asked for a phone number. LE doesn't need a way to contact...

www.websleuths.com

Quote from above link.
"Oh, I hope I didn't give the wrong impression about hearsay. Hearsay/exceptions are about getting evidence admitted at trial, and so it's about proving a case, not whether it is literally true or not. If she gave a statement that said she saw a person of x dimensions, then that has weight as part of the initial arrest/case. It is a piece of evidence in the investigation. Unless for some crazy reason it/her testifying is excluded from trial, her testimony will be a piece of evidence at trial. If she's on the stand the jury (assuming it's a jury trial) will evaluate her/its credibility on anything the court finds can be testified about. The defense will of course (as you noted) seek to find inconsistencies or weaknesses in her testimony in court (or if something terrible happens and she cannot testify, her statements alone), and the jury will give her testimony the weight they think it deserves, after having assessed it and any impact of cross.

TL; DR: just because a statement will need the maker to testify about the same subject at trial doesn't mean the statement is meaningless or has no weight or could just blow up. It has weight as evidence now, and after a cross-examination it will have more or less or different weight, depending on how it all goes.

TL; DR (2): Like everything else recited, it's currently considered evidence supporting the case against BK."

 

[cottonweaver]

I absolutely agree with this. AFAIK there are no statements from anyone who interacted with him recently that indicate he has any serious mental illness.

And as for Tapatalk, it has not been verified as written by BK. As I understand it, it was originally uncovered by 4Chan, or at least some other social media site. The New York Times did not appear to do any further verification, just reiterated the same information noted by others. There are a number of coincidences and it seems like it could be BKs account, but it has not been verified, at least IMO.

originally uncovered by Hidden True Crime team not 4chan ( they explain that on their HTC shows)

It hasn't been verified. Absolutely. We just have to make our own judgment on the methods they used for verification as to the likelihood of it being genuine

 

[ilovewings]

Have the toxicology reports come back yet, or has that been swept aside in the arrest of a suspect?

At one point, there were a lot of professional opinions out there suggesting at least some of the victims might have been drugged in some way to make it easier for an assailant.

I think this case, like water, will follow the course of least resistance. So it’s a stretch for me to hear that a homicidal maniac went to school to study how to kill people, got to the PhD level and totally botched it murdering people he had zero connections with. If BK is guilty, there is far more to his story and probably more people on LE’s radar.

The more likely story is that it is someone they knew. I know about the DNA, yes, which could have been brought in from a flea market item. I am still waiting for more proof, like the rest of us outside the case. I do think it’s interesting that the toxicology reports were not revealed, at least as far as I can tell. If they were drugged, what would that mean for the case?

I don't think they were drugged- he didn't have time for that
I believe, if it is him, he did it alone
I don't believe he was set up and I don't understand your comment "it was more likely it is someone they knew" and DNA could have been brought in from a flea market item" that does not make sense to me. His DNA was found on the sheath next to their bodies--
I tend to believe it was him, but until we have more information we won't know for sure.
Can't figure out why people want to think he was set up or framed- that is the stuff of TV and movies, some story line out of Matlock for example.

 

[Dotta]

150 people would be stacked like cordwood in that house unless all the bedroom doors were open. JMO

Or sardines in a tin

 

[ag513]

We do things differently over here with brand new PhD students but in your experience do the PhD TA's get any training in teaching before they begin holding seminars?

I'm not the original poster, but thought I'd weigh in since I've been a TA and have been in charge of overseeing the work of TAs in the past. When I was a TA at an R1 university (universities in the US with the highest research intensity, which often get PhD students to teach undergrad classes so that faculty have more time for research), I received no training whatsoever. My program would turn PhD students over to teach entire classes on their own with zero pedagogical training. No one ever even came in to do teaching observations/evaluations of us. It was quite appalling. From swapping stories with colleagues who were TAs at other universities, it seems there's a lot of deviation in whether TAs receive training depending on the priorities and practices of individual departments/programs within universities.

It sounds like BK was a TA who was not in charge of his own class, but was assisting a professor who delivered the content and ran the class. BK was likely sitting in on class sessions, answering student questions/emails, and grading assignments. I would hope in that situation the professor in charge of the class would at the very least provide some one-on-one guidance regarding TA expectations, how things should be graded, what to do in cases of suspected academic integrity issues, etc.

*Edit - just double-checked, and WSU is an R1 university as well, so probably a high reliance on TAs in undergrad classes.

 

[Mad Hettie]

I don't think they were drugged- he didn't have time for that
I believe, if it is him, he did it alone
I don't believe he was set up and I don't understand your comment "it was more likely it is someone they knew" and DNA could have been brought in from a flea market item" that does not make sense to me. His DNA was found on the sheath next to their bodies--
I tend to believe it was him, but until we have more information we won't know for sure.
Can't figure out why people want to think he was set up or framed- that is the stuff of TV and movies, some story line out of Matlock for example.

I didn’t say he was set up. I said the DNA on that sheath could have been transferred previously by BK, perhaps picking the object up to look at it at a flea market. The killer won’t have even known BK in this case.

I’m not attached to any outcome here, but I get that a lot of people are.

 

[ilovewings]

I didn’t say he was set up. I said the DNA on that sheath could have been transferred previously by BK, perhaps picking the object up to look at it at a flea market. The killer won’t have even known BK in this case.

I’m not attached to any outcome here, but I get that a lot of people are.

I am not attached to an outcome: I have familiarized myself with the Affidavit and what it says make sense to me, at this juncture in the case, that this man committed this crime. It is very early in the case so we shall see. For me, his DNA on the snap of the knife sheath is just a huge deal, and will be hard to refute. I presume they have taken his DNA and it should be a match. If it doesn't, then there would be a problem.

 

[Mad Hettie]

I am not attached to an outcome: I have familiarized myself with the Affidavit and what it says make sense to me, at this juncture in the case, that this man committed this crime. It is very early in the case so we shall see. For me, his DNA on the snap of the knife sheath is just a huge deal, and will be hard to refute. I presume they have taken his DNA and it should be a match. If it doesn't, then there would be a problem.

Honestly, I’m assuming they have a lot more DNA than just that sheath and the right suspect.

But, from what I’ve read so far I’m still in the middle.

 

[Elley Mae]

IMO, just the fact that KG went to Moscow on a whim makes it all the more heartbreaking.

I wonder how often Ethan stayed the night with Xana.

I do wonder if he really did know how many were there.

Jmo