ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 65

[pittsburghgirl]

I think BK knew there would be multiple people in the house, even Ethan, but he wasn’t threatened by any of them. After all, they would all be vulnerable, possibly being asleep or possibly having had some drinks Saturday night.

It's possible that multiple people in the house was the attraction.

 

[Deleted member 718]

That is correct.

A Whitman County judge ordered the seal until March 1, court documents show.

"Weighed against the public interest in the open administration of justice, compelling circumstances warrant the temporary sealing ordered in this manner," Whitman County Superior Court Judge Gary Libey wrote in two nearly identical Dec. 30 orders, for warrant Nos. 12-29-2022A and B.

Idaho murders: Bryan Kohberger search warrants sealed to prevent 'serious and imminent threat,' court docs

Washington search warrants served after Bryan Kohberger's arrest were sealed for two months in the Idaho murders, but the judge said they may come out sooner.

www.yahoo.com

It's going to be a long wait until March 1!

I am so curious about Judge Libey's sealing of the warrant Nos. 12-29-2022A and B citing "premature public disclosure" could threaten law enforcement, the integrity of the investigation and public safety." Along with the mention of "Suspect Vehicle 1".

Idaho murders: Bryan Kohberger search warrants sealed to prevent 'serious and imminent threat,' court docs

Washington search warrants served after Bryan Kohberger's arrest were sealed for two months in the Idaho murders, but the judge said they may come out sooner.

www.foxnews.com

 

[Which_pancake]

It's probably not a popular opinion right now, but I am sincerely wondering if he was seeing someone (casually maybe, but romantically) who lived near 1122 King road. This person has maybe already been cooperating with LE and has therefore not been in the media? ALL IMO, but it's something that I'm curious about and it doesn't mean he didn't commit the crime. He could have even only recently started dating someone in Moscow in anticipation of needing an alibi for his late night drives / eventual commission of the crime.

Again, just something I've wondered about, too. I understand that we've all read quite a bit about BK's potential issues with women, and we have yet to hear from (for example), a previous long term girlfriend, but he was capable of being social and was probably interested in dating.

Edit just to say I realize this is unlikely from the current information we have. I agree with others, though, that he might have gone to bars or parties in Moscow and near 1122 King road.

I agree with you. It could very well be that he was in the area for legitimate reasons, and that being in the area is how he first crossed paths with the victims. It is easy to forget that we don't know what we don't know - meaning, there may be all kinds of people talking to LE but not the media. Romantic partner, friend, drug dealer, who knows. MOO

 

[pittsburghgirl]

The two are not inconsistent. I believe all four received specific life-ending injuries, and I believe at least three of them will have very similar fatal injuries (perhaps all of them). It's possible that one of them (Kaylee) received more injuries in addition to the ones mentioned by her father.

There was no recovering from the organ damage done by the murderer, IMO. And they were dead fairly quickly. But it was not instantaneous, unless the existing information from the Latah County Coroner is in error. Fast, but not instant.

IMO. It's interesting to me that from what we know, the injuries were all within the strike zone permitted in boxing.


Note that some awareness of where organs are placed is needed.

The liver is not off limits and every good boxer knows to protect that area of the body, and boxing injuries to the liver are no joke. Apparently, the world of MMA knows about liver punches as well.

Liver Shot (Punch): What Makes It So Dangerous?

As we know quite well, combat sports and martial arts have some very specific and special shots, be they punches or kicks. Each one has some peculiarity, but

wayofmartialarts.com

Boxing - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

But the neck/back of the head area is off limits.

Thank you for this and so many other thoughtful posts based on fact and careful analysis.

 

[layer]

does this simply mean when the phone picks up the existence of all available close by networks without accessing them? Until now I didn’t know that this could be tracked.

I'm not entirely convinced that it can be.

 

[CLGM]

I am guessing he did not take a summer course of study. Tuition is the reason. He would not have been a first year doctoral student yet, and his first year course of study was already pre-determined by the department (who would apparently also offer him funding for it, along with the basic provisions of WSU grad funding). He could not have his waiver until he began his TA position in August.

That doesn't mean that he might not have taken a community ed course or whatever, but summer offerings in grad programs are usually of almost zero value in obtaining the degree as well as costing money.

A normal grad student might well have spent time on their home campus, but also visiting any nearby libraries (does WSU have reciprocal library relationships with U of ID? With the Spokane campus? I see BK as someone who is on his own in an entirely new place for the first time. Getting comfortable with the Pullman/Moscow connection would be a natural thing to do before expanding outward.

Guesses. Speculation.

Bar-hopping or, if in the radius of a cell tower for 1122, Greek House partying or other campus residential party watching. Tons of new students wander around campuses when they first arrive, on weekend nights, looking for social life. I know I did and I preferred to do it alone until some women in my dorm convinced me that was a very bad idea. Indeed, the entire reason I started dating my first husband was to have someone accompany me to fraternity parties (I quickly found other reasons, of course). He would take a beer pitcher that he'd brought from out of state and calmly go and fill it at a fraternity while I (Non-drinker at the time) watched in awe. He would joke around and talk with the fraternity guys. He would pretend he might be thinking about rushing, etc. After about a month of this, we were over it and, well, both of us fell into a pattern of studying more on weekends and going to on campus cultural/film events rather than the party scene (esp. as I wasn't drinking and he was barely a drinker).

IOW, I think BK was probably trying to be social (perhaps in a context where no one from his own program would see him), out of shyness or awkwardness. Barhopping could also be included. Just any method for BK to make some social connections (just standing in a bar with other people) in his new place.

Hmm... I'm not sure graduate students check out the social scene in the same way as undergrads. At least that was our experience and what we've observed over the years -- we live in an area with two universities nearly the same distance from each other as WSU and Univ Idaho are from each other. Graduate students tend to initially hang out with folks in their program/department. Or if there's a graduate student society which organizes social events, they would check that out. IMO, it's kind of weird for BK to be over in Moscow so quickly. He did say that the shopping is better in Moscow when he was arrested, though, didn't he? Maybe he meant "stalking" instead of shopping.... Eek...

IMO MHO MOO

 

[CGray123]

I have said this before in various forms, but in light of the ongoing discussion of BK's mental condition I feel it bears repeating.

I am skeptical of the proposition that BK was "mentally ill", and assuming he is, that this would explain his actions and be somehow relevant to his defense.

If you examine the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-5-TR), you'll find yourself and most if not all your friends there. The DSM is designed to help trained and experienced professionals diagnose and treat their patients, not to help armchair psychologists to speculate about the possibility that a thrill/spree/mass murder suspect has a diagnosable mental disorder. When we do that, we are indulging in conduct that professionals (like Dr. Ramsland, who hasn't made any public comment) would consider unethical.

Further, assuming for the sake of argument that BK suffers from a mental disorder, no one has offered an explanation why he acted so differently from the millions of others who suffer the same disorder. Mental illness is, IMO, a rabbit hole that offers neither explanation nor comfort to those who seek to understand this event.

We like to believe we are mentally healthy and therefore would never stalk and kill four strangers as BK has been charged with doing. We seek gain some psychological distance from the accused in this way. IMO, it's a form of whistling in the dark.

It's scary to contemplate the possibility that evil is in each of us, and that we might actually be capable of killing our fellow humans. But maybe we should. It might cause us to give more attention to the importance of the fundamental personal, community, and societal guardrails that keep most of us from choosing to descend into evil in response to the personal suffering everyone encounters in life.

Even assuming that BK suffers some mental condition, IMO it is incumbent on a community committed to justice in this case to assess whether it is relevant to the charges he faces. Here's what Idaho law says about this:

"Idaho Statutes Section 18-207. MENTAL CONDITION NOT A DEFENSE — PROVISION FOR TREATMENT DURING INCARCERATION — RECEPTION OF EVIDENCE — NOTICE AND APPOINTMENT OF EXPERT EXAMINERS.

(1) Mental condition shall not be a defense to any charge of criminal conduct.
...
(3) Nothing herein is intended to prevent the admission of expert evidence on the issue of any state of mind which is an element of the offense, subject to the rules of evidence.

..."

So, I invite those who are inclined to dwell upon BK's mental condition to tell us what relevance this discussion has to BK's guilt or innocence in the deaths of the University of Idaho students.

 

[Boxer]

Page 17

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/122922%20Affidavit%20-%20Exhibit%20A%20-%20Statement%20of%20Brett-Payne.pdf

The trip to Albertsons in Clarkston/Lewiston was around Noon-1:00 pm. on Sunday November 13.

The register number, the time of the purchase and the time he is in camera should reveal what he bought.

 

[Dotta]

It's going to be a long wait until March 1!

I am so curious about Judge Libey's sealing of the warrant Nos. 12-29-2022A and B citing "premature public disclosure" could threaten law enforcement, the integrity of the investigation and public safety." Along with the mention of "Suspect Vehicle 1".

Idaho murders: Bryan Kohberger search warrants sealed to prevent 'serious and imminent threat,' court docs

Washington search warrants served after Bryan Kohberger's arrest were sealed for two months in the Idaho murders, but the judge said they may come out sooner.

www.foxnews.com

Why vehicle 1??
Are there other suspect vehicles.... 2/3?

 

[Friday Fan]

This map is for Verizon, you can select a different carrier at the below link. IMO, looks like there are enough cell towers to deduce he was in the residential area south of UI.

Also, I thought I read somewhere on this case that they could use "arc" technology to determine positioning among an arc from a cell tower. Think MH370 where they had certain arcs or lines that they came up with based on satellite pings. Someone more technological can correct me, but they may have more certainty he was truly close to King Rd than just "he pinged a cell tower in Moscow"

View attachment 395548

SOURCE: Verizon (United States of America)Cell Tower Map

No the PCA specifically stated AT&T cell phone towers, not GPS tracking. The cell phone tower info was available from AT&T. GPS would require a different type of warrant. I have no idea if they can legally obtain GPS tracking from google or not. Last I read, it may have been illegal. We'll see. I'm on cellmapper myself. It seems a bit like "junk science" to me. As a sit in my living room, I will ping off numerous different towers. Same location, four different tower pings.
MH370 used satellite pings, which is different. It also happened in another part of the world and it also happened over water, which would make legality of the warrant a non-issue. Additionally, they were looking for a plane, not determining whether someone was guilty or innocent of a crime.

 

[Mo Thuairim]

I agree with you. It could very well be that he was in the area for legitimate reasons, and that being in the area is how he first crossed paths with the victims. It is easy to forget that we don't know what we don't know - meaning, there may be all kinds of people talking to LE but not the media. Romantic partner, friend, drug dealer, who knows. MOO

A poster who lives in the area mentioned Moscow Food Co-Op is very popular with vegans. The vegan options in Pullman may be more limited. Moscow Food Co-Op is downtown but looking at their website there is another branch on the University of Idaho campus on the junction of Elm Street and University Avenue. According to Google Maps, King Road is a 10-minute walk or three-minute drive from there. If he did go there for the vegan food, perhaps he noticed the house driving or walking around the area one day or saw one of the housemates on campus and followed them home. Anyway he could have visited Moscow for any number of reasons but that food place is close to lots of student housing.

Co-op on Campus — Moscow Food Co-op

proudly serving the University of Idaho Co-op on Campus

www.moscowfood.coop

 

[Hardymum]

I would want to know the dates and times for each of the 12 times his phone was in the Moscow neighborhood but I think the most significant incidence might be the one that occurred during daytime as that could be when he gained knowledge on the accesses to the house, condition and effectiveness of locks as well as the interior layout. The presumption would be the house was empty at the time which probably makes it a weekday and possibly one where something specific was occurring on the Idaho campus. Entirely speculative but may be related in detail when the search warrant information is publicized.

Wasn't there a time mentioned when his phone actually connected to their router? I'm curious what that date was.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

lots of good, interesting comments....

alot of mental illness isn't diagnosed until adulthood....... school is pretty easy for an intelligent person with a mental illness. lots of tests.

but the "real world" isn't like studying and taking tests..... you have to get along with other people. one of the most important IRL skills IMO

This idea that school is "pretty easy for an intelligent person with a mental illness" is less true in any high-pressure or very competitive situation. Doing a degree online might make it easier because the student can present a persona online or on paper rather than navigate actual human interactions, including conflicts. Getting a Ph.D. in a major university program as a teaching assistant or even a research fellow requires resilience, the ability to navigate failure and disappointment and some ability to get along with other people. The only "tests" I had in grad school were the master's comprehensives and the Ph.D. exam (written and oral) on my own areas of specialization. And all of that was highly stressful and contributed to whatever anxiety, depression, or other issues that students had going in.

 

[Friday Fan]

Wasn't there a time mentioned when his phone actually connected to their router? I'm curious what that date was.

That's what Kaylee's dad said. But I have no idea where he got this info. It is not in the PCA.

 

[SophieRose]

I noticed the heating was on in one of the very early videos. It was spoken about in here way back about the door front door being left open and how the survivors wouldn't notice the cold air. link for screen grab -

At the very beginning of the video, the neighbor's camera has already been removed.

 

[Gemmie]

Wasn't there a time mentioned when his phone actually connected to their router? I'm curious what that date was.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but all I've seen is what a criminal defense attorney for Scott Peterson and Michael Jackson said:

she added if prosecutors can prove Kohberger’s phone registered on the victims’ Wi-Fi router, that would place him much closer to the scene.

Key word.... if.

Idaho murders: Veteran defense attorney lays out case Bryan Kohberger team could make, ‘holes’ in affidavit - WFIN Local News

Bryan Kohberger's defense will seek to dismantle many parts of the probable cause affidavit police used to obtain his arrest warrant in the stabbing deaths of four University of Idaho students, according to a high-profile defense attorney.

wfin.com

 

[Cindizzi]

The register number, the time of the purchase and the time he is in camera should reveal what he bought.

I’m sure LE/FBI know what he bought. JMO

[…]

Bryan Kohberger’s cellphone data indicates he drove his white Hyundai Elantra to the Lewiston-Clarkston Valley on Nov. 13. Court documents say surveillance footage from the Clarkston Albertsons shows Kohberger exiting the vehicle at 12:49 p.m.
Interior surveillance cameras show the suspect walking through the store, purchasing unknown items at the checkout and leaving at approximately 1:04 p.m.

When contacted by the Lewiston Tribune on Thursday, an employee at the Clarkston grocery store said management is not commenting on the case or releasing the footage to the media at this time.

The white Elantra was also seen in the parking lot of the Chef’s Store at 820 Port Drive and passing by Kate’s Cup of Joe, which is on the same street. An employee at the coffee stand said the car was spotted in the drive-through, but the driver did not stop and order anything.
Detective Bryon Denny of the Clarkston Police Department said he was asked to obtain some surveillance footage by Idaho authorities. However, the FBI handled the Albertsons portion of the investigation.
“We were just called to check the video of the Chef’s Store parking lot,” Denny said. “It did not appear he entered the store.”

[…]

Kohberger was allegedly in Clarkston hours after students were killed

The man accused of slaughtering four University of Idaho students was in Clarkston on the day of the murders, according to the affidavit released Thursday.

lmtribune.com

 

[Deleted member 718]

Hmm... I'm not sure graduate students check out the social scene in the same way as undergrads. At least that was our experience and what we've observed over the years -- we live in an area with two universities nearly the same distance from each other as WSU and Univ Idaho are from each other. Graduate students tend to initially hang out with folks in their program/department. Or if there's a graduate student society which organizes social events, they would check that out. IMO, it's kind of weird for BK to be over in Moscow so quickly. He did say that the shopping is better in Moscow when he was arrested, though, didn't he? Maybe he meant "stalking" instead of shopping.... Eek...

IMO MHO MOO

Lots of reasons to meet up with others. Gamers for example. Here's a link for an Airsoft (kind of like paintball) meetup in Moscow. https://disboard.org/server/991591139796852796

Not saying this happened, but it's a possibility.

 

[10ofRods]

I'm not entirely convinced that it can be.

It sure can be tracked. If, for example, LE thought a RSO was parked outside my house (one block and around the corner from the school), using his cellular data, they could stop by to see if that same phone had pinged my router (which it would unless it had WIFI disabled).

Phones don't know which wifi you want to be on. You have to tell them. I have mine set to suggest every router available (but my phone has to "ask" me if I want to try and join them). I'm not going to go through this whole experiment again but maybe the below link will help. It tells how to keep YOUR router from being visible on MY phone.

How to Hide Your Wi-Fi Network: Everything You Need to Know

Wireless networks are less secure than wired networks. Here's how to hide your Wi-Fi network from others and what you should know about doing so.

www.makeuseof.com

I can see every neighbors' router as I walk around my neighborhood. When I get out of range of one of them, it drops off the list as others come onto the list. In this way, I can be pretty sure whose router is whose. And I'm sure some of my neighbors may be clever enough to hide their routers - but apparently, at least 6 of them are not at this exact moment. I can see 6 router names besides ours.

How does my phone know this?

Because it is a wifi-enabled device that is stupid. It does not know, until I tell it, which available network (of all the ones it can ping/sense) is the one I want to join. Then it asks me for a password (unless the network is free and open).

My device did not know which of the many networks available I wanted to join. It shows me everything available and then I choose/enter password. Not sure how else to explain it. I can see students' wireless hotspots as I walk around campus (as well as the college wifi, etc). People can see MY wireless hotspot when I use it, but I don't hand out the password. Etc.

Androids and iPhones both have this capacity, and together are maybe 80% of market share or more.

 

[Which_pancake]

A poster who lives in the area mentioned Moscow Food Co-Op is very popular with vegans. The vegan options in Pullman may be more limited. Moscow Food Co-Op is downtown but looking at their website there is another branch on the University of Idaho campus on the junction of Elm Street and University Avenue. According to Google Maps, King Road is a 10-minute walk or three-minute drive from there. If he did go there for the vegan food, perhaps he noticed the house driving or walking around the area one day or saw one of the housemates on campus and followed them home. Anyway he could have visited Moscow for any number of reasons but that food place is close to lots of student housing.

Co-op on Campus — Moscow Food Co-op

proudly serving the University of Idaho Co-op on Campus

www.moscowfood.coop

Exactly - he had to come across the house or its occupants somehow (assuming it's true that it was targeted).

Now that the novelty of the arrest has worn off, I'm getting back to where I was before - just how much of a mystery this case is. MOO