ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 69

[PrairieWind]

Which 'other' private law firms would or could have have taken BK's case for the state (he is currently represented through Idaho PDO by a registered public defender)? BK is being defended by Public defender IMO. On initial arrest his family and BK himself did not engage private counsel IIRC (affordability issue IMO). Would the state PDO hire a private firm to represent him, with no cost to client? I'm no expert on Idaho State law and hadn't realised that might be an option.

I can't speak specifically to the Idaho Public Defender's office, but in my state, it not uncommon for the public defenders office to contract with private attorneys for cases. The attorney then just submits his bills to the PD, at an agreed and approved rate.

 

[jepop]

Has AT arrived at a formal agreement to represent Kohberger? All I see is her Limited Notice of Appearance.

Idaho Judicial Cases of Interest

She is a Public Defender, AFAIAW.
In the Case Summary under Party Information:
Lead Attorneys
THOMPSON. WILLIAM
WOFFORD, JT
&
Taylor, Anne Chere
Court Appointed

No lawyer, but I believe this indicates she was appointed by the Court (She is a public defender). MOO

 

[jepop]

I can't speak specifically to the Idaho Public Defender's office, but in my state, it not uncommon for the public defenders office to contract with private attorneys for cases. The attorney then just submits his bills to the PD, at an agreed and approved rate.

Thanks for clarifying

 

[maskedwoman]

I can't speak specifically to the Idaho Public Defender's office, but in my state, it not uncommon for the public defenders office to contract with private attorneys for cases. The attorney then just submits his bills to the PD, at an agreed and approved rate.

Florida did that for the Casey Anthony case but I remember Baez had to bring in another lawyer as first chair because he was not DP qualified. I have no idea how many lawyers are both death penalty qualified and licensed to practice in Idaho.

 

[NyxNY]

DNA is enough for juries to convict. The rest shows he had motive, means and opportunity and NO ALIBI.

You can't discount the DNA as just circumstantial, it's pretty direct if you want more direct evidence.

BBM

Unfortunately we do not know that yet, although I am hoping that is the case.

 

[SRWCF]

Is anyone else here pretty sure that the Kootenai County Public Defender's Office thoroughly looked into the laws before they appointed AT to be BCK's attorney? I mean, they are lawyers, after all! While on the surface it looks sketchy to a layperson, I don't think there is anything nefarious going on here. MOO.

 

[Ghostwheel]

Just reviewing the notification of rights in this case. It says, inital items which you fully understand and leave blank items which you do not understand.

One question left blank.

Has anyone made you promises or coerced you to act in this matter?

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/010523%20Notification%20of%20Rights.pdf

edit: changed three questions to one question and removed two, thanks for the correction CityKid

I'm not sure I could answer that, it's kind of confusing.

"Has anyone made you promises or coerced you to act in this matter?"

What matter? The matter of your rights? The matter of filling out and signing the paper? The charges that have been brought against you? The actual acts committed?

The sentence could be "act in this (behavior) matter" or "caused you to act" in this (thing that was done) matter.

Who knows if someone said "You have to fill this out or we can't get you a trial." Coercion maybe, in his mind,, if he didn't want to fill it out.

Really poor wording, imo.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Israel Keyes had a young daughter and made all kind of deals with the prosecution to keep the details of his killing of Samantha Koenig out of the public eye. He told them where to find her remains and gave up information about the VT couple he killed (which would likely still be unsolved) and in exchange he wanted to be executed within a year because he didn’t want his daughter and the rest of his family to live with what he’d done for years and years. He didn’t want his crimes hanging over his daughter’s head for the rest of her life. Of course, he was incredibly naive about how slowly the justice system works. And when an officer in VT leaked his name to the press, he stopped cooperating with the FBI and then he took matters into his own hands when he realized “his deal” wasn’t getting him anywhere.

Did he show remorse for his victims? No, but he did regret that his actions were having a negative impact on his family. I think part of him wanting to shelter his daughter from his crimes was self-serving — he didn’t want his daughter to think of him differently, etc. But I also think he really loved his daughter (at least, in the only way he knew how).

I think it’s impossible for us to conceptualize a person who can commit such heinous crimes and also be capable of love. But the inner workings of the human mind are complex and complicated because no two brains are the same.

BK looks and acts like IK a lot. I just rewatched an episode of his interrogations, he had quite a few of the same mannerisms as BK. He was obviously a very smart person, and by just looking at him you would never guess he was capable of such heinous crimes.

MOO

 

[Deleted member 718]

"The mere fact that the public defender was forced to make a decision about which client to represent reflects a potential issue of competing loyalties," Michael McAuliffe, a former federal prosecutor and elected state attorney, told Newsweek.

McAuliffe said Taylor "is surely acting in good faith, trying to navigate the applicable ethical obligations" but the potential conflict of interest is "significant."

Taylor "may have withdrawn from the active case involving victim's parent when she was assigned the Kohberger case, but she can't unlearn the information she acquired in the course of those earlier representations," he said. "We have no idea to what extent that information might include the murder victim.

"Further, a murder victim's relatives have a right to be heard in almost every jurisdiction in the U.S. in a charged homicide case. If the state files a notice of intent to seek the death penalty, the parent (the public defender's former client) will have a specific right and special standing to be heard in the capital case including any proposed resolution or plea."

'Conflict of Interest' in Bryan Kohberger Case Leaves Legal Experts Stunned

 

[SRWCF]

DNA is enough for juries to convict. The rest shows he had motive, means and opportunity and NO ALIBI.

You can't discount the DNA as just circumstantial, it's pretty direct if you want more direct evidence.

For fun, let's say that the only DNA from BCK that LE found at the crime scene was from the knife sheath. I think there could be 100 arguments the defense could explain that away, the top probably being LE's DNA testing might have been faulty. Personally, as a juror, that little bit of DNA would not be enough to convince me BCK was guilty.

I'm curious what you think shows that he had motive, because I am not seeing it just yet? All the public has thus far is contradicting media stories that BCK "messaged" one of the girls more than once and that he "ordered a vegan pizza" at the Mad Greek on a couple of occasions.

 

[RonSwanson33]

BBM

Unfortunately we do not know that yet, although I am hoping that is the case.

If he had an alibi he wouldn't be sitting in jail right now.

 

[RonSwanson33]

For fun, let's say that the only DNA from BCK that LE found at the crime scene was from the knife sheath. I think there could be 100 arguments the defense could explain that away, the top probably being LE's DNA testing might have been faulty. Personally, as a juror, that little bit of DNA would not be enough to convince me BCK was guilty.

I'm curious what you think shows that he had motive, because I am not seeing it just yet? All the public has thus far is contradicting media stories that BCK "messaged" one of the girls more than once and that he "ordered a vegan pizza" at the Mad Greek on a couple of occasions.

Him stalking them means he was planning the murder IMO. PCA isn't just contradicting media stories IMO. They have a lot more than the DNA according to the PCA, and they have a lot more than the PCA. If you want a glimpse into when LE has on BK, I would suggest checking out discovery for any high profile case like CW or PF. It's like hundereds of pages of info. Someday we will see BK's. So a lot of speculation is IMO unnecessary, because we really do not have all the info IMO.

 

[SRWCF]

Him stalking them means he was planning the murder IMO. PCA isn't just contradicting media stories IMO.

But was he stalking them? Supposedly a couple of Instagram messages to "one of the victims" and maybe he visited the Mad Greek a couple of times? Nah, that's not enough.

In my mind, the PCA offers literally zero evidence of motive.

The only potential motive I'm seeing is coming from media stories. When I said "contradicting", I was referring to the media stories. A supposed former employee says they saw BCK in the restaurant, and then the Mad Greek manager immediately comes out with a statement that that simply wasn't true. Those are contradicting media stories.

 

[SRWCF]

Him stalking them means he was planning the murder IMO. PCA isn't just contradicting media stories IMO. They have a lot more than the DNA according to the PCA, and they have a lot more than the PCA. If you want a glimpse into when LE has on BK, I would suggest checking out discovery for any high profile case like CW or PF. It's like hundereds of pages of info. Someday we will see BK's. So a lot of speculation is IMO unnecessary, because we really do not have all the info IMO.

For the record, I think BCK is 1,000% guilty. I think he targeted the house first (easy access) and then after he chose it, started stalking the victims. That being said, all I'm saying is that on the VERY LITTLE information that the public has on BCK provided by trustworthy court documents, it's way too soon to convict him in our minds. I realize (hope) that LE has piles of evidence against this creep, but as of yet he's innocent until proven guilty.

 

[SRWCF]

If he had an alibi he wouldn't be sitting in jail right now.

Bingo! I'm guessing "The shopping's better in Moscow" just didn't cut it.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

Alot of the discussion I have been involved in on this thread at least, has been around what the pre crime 12 pings (see PCA) infer re prior stalking. RE the evidence per PCA for the night of the crime, I agree it is very strong
circumstantially!

ETA
https://s3.documentcloud.org/docume...hibit-a-statement-of-brett-payne_redacted.pdf for all refs to Pings/12Pings

BBM. Yeah, I think most agree on this point. The evidence for the night of the murders is strong. I think sometimes things get lost in translation because we all feel so passionately about this case. That isn't necessarily a bad thing (I think debate is great), but I'm trying not to misrepresent anyone's position. I hope we can all do that so the discussion goes smoothly. We have 4 more months before more information is released lol.

MOO.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

What a great point!

I haven't seen it mentioned before, but I can't keep up with all the posts.

<modsnip: encourages off topic discussion of DP>

On the other hand, if you are obsessed (popular usage) with one or more Idaho girls, maybe it's worth the risk. Or maybe the killer thought he would be less likely to be caught in a jurisdiction other than the one in which he lived...

I don't think it was "any victim will do," but that doesn't necessarily mean that the victims he chose were chosen strictly for Individual characteristics rather than as a TYPE. I recall that BK's Reddit/Master's Survey asked the question of how the criminals "chose" their victims or targets, which strikes me as an odd question to ask. Think about it: people mostly kill relatives, friends, neighbors, co-workers--people they know. Or they kill people they encounter in some conflict--a bar fight, a gang retaliation, etc. Or they kill people while committing a felony like bank robbery, a car jacking. But in any of those cases, the victims aren't really "chosen": they are already part of the equation, e.g, Chris Watts doesn't "choose" his wife as a victim. He kills her because his life and hers are connected. A convenience store robber may choose the store but killing the person behind the counter is a spontaneous act. Anyone could be clerking that day.

So I'm thinking of that phrasing as illuminating BK's developing mindset. He's not going to murder people he knows or has a beef with. He's going to CHOOSE people. That choice might involve gender, age, beauty, social class. Maybe one of the women reminded him of his mother or the teacher who flunked him in 8th grade. He somehow notes a houseful of young college women, all attractive and popular, perhaps through social media and perhaps by stalking them on campus. And then the house seems ideal. A multiple story party house with multiple points of entry, some of which are probably not on camera. He's not committing the crime where he lives or at his own university so he thinks/hopes/assumes some psycho or ex BF from Idaho will be blamed. He chooses the type of victim and the location and then works on getting in and getting out. He choose the weapon. He chooses the night. Maybe it has to be that Fall semester because he flubbed up so badly as a TA.

My point is that he probably thought such a random crime with victims to whom he is not really connected, will be a perfect murder. Investigations start with intimates (BFs, ex-BFs, family, neighbors) and then work outward. Stranger murder means a giant pool of people could be the killer. If it weren't for the car being spotted near the house at the right time with no front plate, the DNA hit might go nowhere. And he probably thought he was careful and wouldn't leave DNA.

<modsnip: quoted post snipped> I think BK's scenario went off the rails the moment he stabbed the first victim and was faced with the reality of the blood and the struggles and the smell and the adrenaline rush. My evidence for that is that he didn't kill 2 of the inhabitants because either he didn't know they were there or he had overestimated what it took to kill people, even quickly. The fact that his car is reported to have left at a high rate of speed (drawing attention to it) suggests panic and an urge to get out of there. We attribute all this planning to BK but it seems to me that he might just be a wannabe killer saturated in movie, TV and video images, who had no idea the limits of his imagination, his courage or his knowledge of what this crime would unleash in the community. He might have simply imagined that the state border protected him.

 

[al66pine]

Is BCK a Poss. Suspect in 2 Other Stabbing Cases?

Agreed. Now that they have a suspect BK, can they agree he is not a suspect on the other two stabbing cases in the vicinity and on the 13th??

@RTC
First if LE (city PD, county sheriff, or state police) in jurisdictions in which those two stabbing crimes occurred did consider BCK as a suspect, yes, they may have determined BCK was not involved in those cases. But why would LE announce it? To "clear BCK's name?" Nope, no reason for those LE agencies to make any public announcement, imo.
If FBI had considered BCK as involved, then dismissed, ditto. No public announcement. imo

Then this from my imperfect memory of early threads discussion
about the two other stabbing cases, each on the 13th of the month: They occurred MONTHS before (IIRC) BCK moved to Pullman WA.
Also re "in the vicinity"? I believe one of the two stabbing crimes occurred at a distance of 300 plus miles from Pullman.
If someone pulls info to the contrary, I'd welcome corrections w links.
ETA: behind on threads, posted before reading posts made since OP.

 

[maskedwoman]

But was he stalking them? Supposedly a couple of Instagram messages to "one of the victims" and maybe he visited the Mad Greek a couple of times? Nah, that's not enough.

In my mind, the PCA offers literally zero evidence of motive.

The only potential motive I'm seeing is coming from media stories. When I said "contradicting", I was referring to the media stories. A supposed former employee says they saw BCK in the restaurant, and then the Mad Greek manager immediately comes out with a statement that that simply wasn't true. Those are contradicting media stories.

While motive is interesting and sometimes helpful, the prosecution is not required to prove why he did it. Only that he did it.

I understand why people prefer there to be a motive and have it public, but I'm sure its not always possible for LE to divine what the motive might have been.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

Is BCK a Poss. Suspect in 2 Other Stabbing Cases?

@RTC
First if LE (city PD, county sheriff, or state police) in jurisdictions in which those two stabbing crimes occurred did consider BCK as a suspect, yes, they may have determined BCK was not involved in those cases. But why would LE announce it? To "clear BCK's name?" Nope, no reason for those LE agencies to make any public announcement, imo.
If FBI had considered BCK as involved, then dismissed, ditto. No public announcement. imo

Then this from my imperfect memory of early threads discussion
about the two other stabbing cases, each on the 13th of the month: They occurred MONTHS before (IIRC) BCK moved to Pullman WA.
Also re "in the vicinity"? I believe one of the two stabbing crimes occurred at a distance of 300 plus miles from Pullman.
If someone pulls info to the contrary, I'd welcome corrections w links.

This was discussed in one of the first threads, before BK was arrested and police dismissed the connection.

Police dismiss rumors that Idaho student stabbings connected to unsolved Oregon case

Two weeks after a grisly quadruple murder of four college students, detectives have shot down a number of speculations, including rumors that the murders may be tied to unsolved crimes in Oregon and Washington.

www.kptv.com