ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 71

[Cool Cats]

Deug! I'm here too Don't know the answer to your question though. I'm guessing but not sure they need to if they don't have anything to disclose but if they do have something I believe they have to let it be known in discover before the trial?

Yes. If defense has discovery they have to disclose it before trial.

Could be any number of things such as witness list, expert witnesses, forensic reports, video camera footage, receipts, medical records, photos, computer or phone digital information, social media accounts,
investigative reports from their own investigators, psychological reports, physical evidence, their own DNA analysis, witness interviews, any number of things.

I find it odd they have zero. They are sopose to gather evidence for the preliminary hearing, otherwise, why put this hearing off 5 more months? I thought putting it off is to gain evidence.

 

[Boxer]

Yes. If defense has discovery they have to disclose it before trial.

Could be any number of things such as witness list, expert witnesses, forensic reports, video camera footage, receipts, medical records, photos, computer or phone digital information, social media accounts,
investigative reports from their own investigators, psychological reports, physical evidence, their own DNA analysis, witness interviews, any number of things.

I find it odd they have zero. They are sopose to gather evidence for the preliminary hearing, otherwise, why put this hearing off 5 more months? I thought putting it off is to gain evidence.

Nothing came of their hired expert search of the crime scene?

 

[Dotta]

Nothing came of their hired expert search of the crime scene?

Oh dear

 

[Nila Aella]

Nothing came of their hired expert search of the crime scene?

The defense visited on 1/3 and 1/6. They received the State's response to discovery 1/23. They need to examine everything and then do their own testing. Chief Fry on 12/31 said they were still receiving test results from the crime scene. Might be a while before the defense actually has a report. JMO

Bryan Kohberger's lawyer sends defense investigators to crime scene: source

Members of Bryan Kohberger's defense team toured the Idaho home where four college students were slaughtered on Nov. 13, Fox News Digital has learned.

www.foxnews.com

Idaho police begin clearing rental home where students were murdered

Idaho State Police began clearing the Moscow home where four University of Idaho students were stabbed to death - a day after their alleged killer was formally charged.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Q&A: Police chief speaks after arrest in Idaho stabbings

Moscow Police Chief James Fry opened up to NewsNation in one of his first interviews since the arrest of a suspect in connection to the case.

www.newsnationnow.com

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/012323%20States%20Response%20to%20Request%20for%20Discovery.pdf

edit: Chief Fry said - changed from 1/3 to 12/31

 

[iamshadow21]

I'm so sorry that happened to you.

It was traumatic emotionally but there was no lasting physical hurt. My boyfriend had two black eyes, our friend a split lip.

They never hit me. And when my boyfriend offered my purse, it actually made them angry. "That's the effing girl's wallet." They rejected it. That's not to say that these folks were gentlemen.

I've talked before about how memory is a weird thing, how we can and do forget. One thing I remember being firm on with the police statement was that they never touched me. But after, my boyfriend looked confused. And related what he remembered, and it came rushing back.

They HAD.

In the lead up, before they hit us, when they were milling round, sniggering and intimidating us, one had sat down right next to me, put his arm around me, and kissed me on the cheek. And I had completely forgotten it. My brain had rewritten the incident to make it that I had never been touched. Scared, watched my friends being hurt, yes, but never touched.

It's entirely possible, for example, that Xana didn't understand that she was fighting for her life, even despite her injuries. She may have just known that someone was hitting her. A lot of folks think they've been punched when they have been stabbed. Just feel the pressure, not the sharp pain. And I can easily believe that D might have seen the attacker clearly enough to describe him accurately, but not remember that he was carrying a huge knife probably dripping with blood, even if he was and it wasn't hidden in any way. Our brain will do strange, wonderful, terrible things to protect us from hurt.

MOO

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

But the poster you were replying to was saying that Miranda is read at time of arrests for just that reason. The case you cited was strictly civil. It had nothing to do with the legalities of what is or isn't excluded in criminal court. There is no civil recourse, but criminal laws still apply. Regardless, I think BK was most likely mirandized right away. Doubt any officer(s) wants to risk a confession being thrown out in this case because he wasn't read his rights. MOO.

You're right that Miranda is required, but it's not at the time of arrest. Miranda is required if the suspect is subject to "custodial interrogation". And that's not based on what you and I might consider 'custody' or 'interrogation'. It is a grey area, and the liminal space between questioning v. interrogation and when 'custody' begins inspires many legal discussions, and by that I mean lots of case law on the subject, many legal articles online, and it's the stuff of motions to exclude/include evidence. My hope (and I think that this is the case with BK's arrest, just based on the circumstances) is that he was Mirandized immediately. jmo imo and based on tons o' links. here are two to begin:

custodial interrogation

www.law.cornell.edu

Miranda: The Meaning of Custodial Interrogation

Suspects have to be in custody and subject to questioning or its equivalent for Miranda to kick in.

www.nolo.com

 

[I'm Nobody]

I wasn't going to post again until June but best laid plans..........

Public Service Announcement

Call me cruel because I don't care if BK sits in jail for years until his conviction. My concern is the victims, friends and family.. Idaho has resources to provide great victim advocacy. Attached is the website for Idaho Office of Victim Crimes OVC. Anyone who needs help might start there. UofIdaho is offering good programs coming this month, including stress toolbox, dog therapy and yoga laughter. I know the FBI has the resources and manpower with exceptional compassion to help witnesses. Hopefully they are still helping with the case.

To all the victims/families who are reading every social media post you can find. STOP. Find a designated reader to digest the news. Fight every urge to talk to the press right now. Yes it is your right but get stronger first. There will come a time to tell your truth. Prepare for the long haul. Above all else, please expect angels.

MOO

Idaho | State Support | OVC

Access awards, events, and state Victims of Crime Act formula funding program contacts for Idaho.

ovc.ojp.gov

What We Do | About OVC

OVC supports state victim assistance and compensation programs, TTA, and other capacity-building programs.

ovc.ojp.gov

edit for clarity.

 

[agilbe]

Did BK enter the house before or after the Door Dash delivery?

Could Door Dash delivery person have seen BK's car? Driving by on the same street? Or already parked? Dash cam maybe?

If BK entered the house (before or even) after the DD delivery, how did he get past XK to go upstairs? Was she in her room at that point or in the common area?

<moo>

Did the delivery person say who received the food? I thought the bag was on the counter in the kitchen? If XK did take the order, set it on the counter while she ran upstairs to perhaps get something. And then sadly was killed. It almost sounds like BK was already in the house. JMO

 

[Cool Cats]

Nothing came of their hired expert search of the crime scene?

Very good point Boxer. I had heard that the defense had their own investigator out there, can't remember where I read that - probably from posts from informative posters.

An investigator would definitely write a report of their findings.

That the defense is not turning this over as evidence, indicates to me, that the investigator did not find anything helpful to BK's defense. Investigations include lots of interviews and if anything, maybe the investigator was told things that would only help prosecutors.

 

[iamshadow21]

Did the delivery person say who received the food? I thought the bag was on the counter in the kitchen? If XK did take the order, set it on the counter while she ran upstairs to perhaps get something. And then sadly was killed. It almost sounds like BK was already in the house. JMO

The counter of the kitchen is on the slightly higher bit of the split level middle floor. The only thing upstairs from there is the top floor where Maddie and Kaylee were sleeping, and I can't see what she'd need up there at four am when as far as we know, M and K were probably asleep.

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

Sadly, as long as humans are involved, an unjust result cannot be excluded 100%, primarily (imho) due to the fact that all the humans involved are imperfect and can make either unintentional errors, or act unjustly for their own self-interest. The group has talked a lot about lazy police who get tunnel vision, but prosecutors who cheat to fluff their win/lose stats are, in my view, among the most horrid people alive. And, anyone caught at it should not just be fired and disbarred - they should serve prison time.

There has also been a lot of talk on the threads about how the "real" killer could have framed BK, by leaving the sheath behind, stealing/borrowing his car and phone and returning them, etc., so I was interested in how many people are successfully framed by someone outside the justice system. I guess we may never know, since if they succeeded, the poor person who was framed may never have proved their innocence. MOOooo

I agree completely re prosecutorial misconduct. Easy sources for those who would like to research further.

Equal Justice Initiative

EJI works to end mass incarceration and racial inequality.

eji.org

Search The Marshall Project’s archives

The Marshall Project is a nonprofit news organization covering the U.S. criminal justice system.

www.themarshallproject.org

Innocence Project

We work to free the innocent, prevent wrongful convictions, and create fair, compassionate, and equitable systems of justice for everyone.

innocenceproject.org

I also want to respond to the 'real killer' talk re framing, sheath, etc. I am one of the people who raised those points, not because I believe them but because dots were being connected that did not connect (eg; BK's car was seen so BK as driving - this requires an assumption, albeit a pretty logical one). I highlighted some of the issues because this is where the defense may seek to raise doubt. when there is a possible question, there can be doubt. reasonable or not is the big issue. enough doubts raised, the bigger the pool of doubt goes. In BK's case, the PCA is imo jmo not enough for bard. ICBW.
Do I think he did it? Yes.
Do I feel BARD has been met? No.
And all it takes is one juror to vote not guilty BARD.

 

[iamshadow21]

Very good point Boxer. I had heard that the defense had their own investigator out there, can't remember where I read that - probably from posts from informative posters.

An investigator would definitely write a report of their findings.

That the defense is not turning this over as evidence, indicates to me, that the investigator did not find anything helpful to BK's defense. Investigations include lots of interviews and if anything, maybe the investigator was told things that would only help prosecutors.

Doesn't discovery work both ways? So, if a defense expert's findings don't help the defense case, can't the state call them as a hostile witness and question them on the stand and use that to build their case?

 

[Cassady]

Do you believe LE would release him if he gave them a verifiable alibi or if LE has uncovered information pointing to someone else being responsible? Or would they wait until the prelim hearing?

I don't believe they would release him. JMO

IMO alibi is an asserted defense and not an automatic get out of jail card. Defendants can notice the state of their intent to assert an alibi defense. Defendants can provide evidence to the state concering their alibi defense. The state, however, is under no obligation to dismiss based on this evidence or asserted alibi defense.

The defendant could then call witnesses and present evidence to support their alibi defense.

The finder of fact determines if the alibi defense is legit or not.

IMO there are often cases were an alibi is asserted by the defendant and the case still proceeds to trial.

 

[agilbe]

The counter of the kitchen is on the slightly higher bit of the split level middle floor. The only thing upstairs from there is the top floor where Maddie and Kaylee were sleeping, and I can't see what she'd need up there at four am when as far as we know, M and K were probably asleep.

Yup you are correct.

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

Public Service Announcement

Call me cruel because I don't care if BK sits in jail for years until his conviction. My concern is the victims, friends and family.

It is possible to have 100% concern for victims, friends and family and still 100% support our constitutional rights. The two are not mutually exclusive, and to treat someone barbarically is... well, barbaric. JMO IMO.

 

[renarde]

There are three events are happening simultaneously at approx 4am. Door dash -- something waking DM -- KG making noise upstairs. It seems to me that BK was inside the house. <moo>

Read the affidavit on how investigators identified the Idaho killings suspect | CNN

Idaho officials have publicly released court documents -- including a probably cause affidavit -- in prosecutors' case against Bryan Kohberger, who faces four counts of first-degree murder and one count of burglary in the killings of four University of Idaho undergraduate students.

www.cnn.com

>>> This is with the exception of Kenrodle, who received a DoorDash order at the residence at approximately 4:00 a.m. (law enforcement identified the DoorDash delivery driver who reported this information).

D.M. stated she originally went to sleep in her bedroom on the southeast side of the second floor. D.M. stated she was awoken at approximately 4:00 a.m. by what she stated sounded like Goncalves playing with her dog in one of the upstairs bedrooms, which were located on the third floor.

This part of the timeline is confusing to me. Lots going on at around 4 a.m.

How does BK get past DoorDash delivery person and/or XK, and head upstairs?

It's almost as if he came in at the same time as the Door Dash delivery. That's brazen. Or maybe just dumb.

 

[RonSwanson33]

It is possible to have 100% concern for victims, friends and family, and still 100% support our constitutional rights. The two are not mutually exclusive, and to treat someone barbarically is... well, barbaric. JMO IMO.

I care more about the victims rights than the perp's rights. IMO

 

[RonSwanson33]

With respect, there are hundreds, maybe thousands, of innocent people in prison who thought exactly that. I've never had a problem with police in my life, but at this point I'm not sure I'd tell them anything beyond asking for a lawyer, no matter how innocent I was.

And I'm almost positive I would refuse a lie detector test. Voodoo machine, except perhaps in the hands of the very best examiners. But how would I know the competence of the examiner provided by LE?

Source for the 'thousands of innocent people in prison' ?

 

[RonSwanson33]

And that's fine.

In my textbooks, cowards run and hide. We may just have different points of reference.

JMO

IMO textbook, cowards murder defenseless innocent people.

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

I care more about the victims rights than the perp's rights. IMO

I didn't say 'the perp's rights'. I said 'our constitution rights'. The two are not necessarily synonymous and binary thought is dangerous imo jmo. Although differentiating between the two requires sometimes balancing two conflicting ideas, it's entirely possible for those who take the mental/emotional effort and energy. Without that, we'd still be in the Star Chamber <modsnip>

Star Chamber - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org