ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 71

[WingsOverTX]

How did they wake up in the same bed? One of them would have had to walk past E and X's bodies, wouldn't they?

THIS^^^^
I hope we get an explanation of the lag between BK leaving and the 911 call. Movements of the survivors, if that happened in the lag time, and the 911 call will tell us a lot.
MOO

 

[Twistinginthewind]

This car will make me crazy. How are they going to explain that they were searching for a 2011-2013 Elantra and then Whoops, we meant 2015? Because the differences on the type of Elantra they showed images of between a 2011-2013 and a 2015 are distinctive. Unless there was something 2011-2013 on the 2015 (like the wheels), whomever was reviewing the tapes and identified it incorrectly needs to go back and learn some more about car identification.

If they had just said 2011-2016, it would have covered all of the 5th gen.

MOO, it's a car person thing.

LE had an "expert" on vehicle identification from the FBI brought in early on, and maybe the videos that were available "early on" were only enough for narrowing down the search from "maybe a white sedan" to that model, color, and bracket or years. Maybe as the investigation progressed, they got more footage and more detailed videos (like from the gas station) that allowed them to narrow down the year further. And at that point they decided it wasn't necessary to change the description, maybe because they were closing in on him and didn't care whether the public at large knew the exact year to be on the lookout for, and didn't want to change the bulletin and tip off the perp that they had narrowed down the year.

LE may have given the earlier year range on purpose to keep public focus on a white Elantra from the first 1/2 of that decade, but not focused on 2015s specifically, because they already had BK identified as having one and he was a person of growing interest in the crimes, but not quite a suspect yet, and they didn't want to alert him they knew it was the specific year he drove.

LE may have let other details like that that were "close to the truth" slide in the interest of "luring" him into a sense of security, protecting the integrity of the investigation and their ruse, etc., IMO, and it was a good strategy in the end.

JMO

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

If DM stayed in her room after calling her roommates without reponse wouldn’t that actually be beyond brave? I picture a dark quiet house that as far as she knew just had everyone screaming in it and a masked stranger running around. Now she was stuck with her only protection being a residential door.

I think it was likely trauma that had her frozen in fear. That's not to say she isn't brave. I'm sure she is. But it sounds more like a fight-flight-freeze moment to me. MOO.

Also, we haven't heard that anyone screamed. They may have and it was left out of the PCA, but it hasn't been said by LE yet that there were any screams.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

A dresser in front of the door might be dangerous in case of fire.
And jumping out of the window might be impossible when living on higher floors.

But...

Invest in really good alarm system connected to security firm.

JMO

Yes to all of this! Dresser in front of the door is a danger in fire and in case of medical emergency if someone needs to reach you.

 

[Twistinginthewind]

How did they wake up in the same bed? One of them would have had to walk past E and X's bodies, wouldn't they?

LE has not said DM and BF were in the same bed, they could have been, or they could have been on the 1st (BF) and 2nd (DM) floors.

Regardless, IMO, either or both of them could have used the 2nd floor bathroom earlier that morning without noticing anything unusual if it was early (maybe not fully light out) and/or they were groggy, because the bathroom and 2 bedrooms on the second floor seem to be all "around the corner" and not in plain view of eachother, for privacy reasons in the layout, I'm assuming.

The PCA says Xana's and Ethan's bodies were in her bedroom, which they might not have even thought of looking "into" if they went to the toilet and then back to bed in the dark or before full daylight on a Sunday morning after a late night.

They thought their housemates were sleeping in like they were, since they were all up well past midnight, and Xana had her boyfriend over spending the night, which would make them even less likely to walk up to her bedroom door that morning and inspect their status, IMO.

We don't know if Xana's bedroom door was closed, or if there was blood that was obvious outside her bedroom door on the 2nd floor at casual glance.

I think it wasn't until late into the morning going on noon that DM and BF really woke up and reality came crashing down when they came into the kitchen and saw some blood and one of them on the floor when they looked into Xana's room. Prior to that, I think they tried to contact their housemates on their cell phones about the noises of the night before and and maybe the "masked man" DM saw, and they weren't answering, so they assumed everything was okay and they went back to bed to give their hosuemates who were up until 3 or 4 am time to sleep in.

IIRC, very early on it was in MSM that Ethan had plans with his brother at 11:30 am or 12:00 pm on Sunday to go golfing, and when he showed up at the house and no one was answering the door, and he couldn't reach Ethan on his cell phone, and neither he or DM and BF who answered the door could reach them, that that's when DM and BF went upstairs, maybe with his brother.

That was incredibly traumatic, and Kaylee's father said this:

""You got to remember these two girls were so upset that when they went outside after seeing this ... one passed out," he said. "And the other one was so hyperventilating that the message wasn’t clear enough for the operator.""

Father of Idaho slayings victim says Bryan Kohberger wouldn’t look at him in court

 

[Nichevo]

Quoted directly from affidavit:

“Law enforcement officers provided video footage of Suspect Vehicle 1 to forensic examiners with the Federal Bureau of Investigation that regularly utilize surveillance footage to identify the year, make, and model of an unknown vehicle that is observed by one or more cameras during the commission of a criminal offense. The Forensic Examiner has approximately 35 years law enforcement experience with twelve years at the FBI His specific training includes identifuing unique characteristics of vehicles, and he uses a database that gives visual clues of vehicles across states to identify differences between vehicles.
After reviewing the numerous observations of Suspect Vehicle 1, the forensic examiner initially believed that Suspect Vehicle 1 was a 2011-2013 Hyundai Elantra. Upon further review, he indicated it could also be a 2011-2016 Hyundai Elantra. As a result, investigators have been reviewing information on persons in possession of a vehicle that is a 2011-2016 white Hyundai Elantra.”

It was described as 2011-2016 for POI prior to request for info from public. BCK was identified as POI from that. IMO they described as 2011 to 2013 in request to public to give BCK a false sense of security.

 

[Bogbacal2]

i’m sure BK has read all witness statements by now correct? I do remember reading about my next question here but can’t locate it. Are the names and addresses of the witnesses on the documents that BK can see?

 

[Bogbacal2]

i’m sure BK has read all witness statements by now correct? I do remember reading about my next question here but can’t locate it. Are the names and addresses of the witnesses on the documents that BK can see?

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

LE has not said DM and BF were in the same bed, they could have been, or they could have been on the 1st (BF) and 2nd (DM) floors.

Regardless, IMO, either or both of them could have used the 2nd floor bathroom earlier that morning without noticing anything unusual if it was early (maybe not fully light out) and/or they were groggy, because the bathroom and 2 bedrooms on the second floor seem to be all "around the corner" and not in plain view of eachother, for privacy reasons in the layout, I'm assuming.

The PCA says Xana's and Ethan's bodies were in her bedroom, which they might not have even thought of looking "into" if they went to the toilet and then back to bed in the dark or before full daylight on a Sunday morning after a late night.

They thought their housemates were sleeping in like they were, since they were all up well past midnight, and Xana had her boyfriend over spending the night, which would make them even less likely to walk up to her bedroom door that morning and inspect their status, IMO.

We don't know if Xana's bedroom door was closed, or if there was blood that was obvious outside her bedroom door on the 2nd floor at casual glance.

I think it wasn't until late into the morning going on noon that DM and BF really woke up and reality came crashing down when they came into the kitchen and saw some blood and one of them on the floor when they looked into Xana's room. Prior to that, I think they tried to contact their housemates on their cell phones about the noises of the night before and and maybe the "masked man" DM saw, and they weren't answering, so they assumed everything was okay and they went back to bed to give their hosuemates who were up until 3 or 4 am time to sleep in.

IIRC, very early on it was in MSM that Ethan had plans with his brother at 11:30 am or 12:00 pm on Sunday to go golfing, and when he showed up at the house and no one was answering the door, and he couldn't reach Ethan on his cell phone, and neither he or DM and BF who answered the door could reach them, that that's when DM and BF went upstairs, maybe with his brother.

That was incredibly traumatic, and Kaylee's father said this:

""You got to remember these two girls were so upset that when they went outside after seeing this ... one passed out," he said. "And the other one was so hyperventilating that the message wasn’t clear enough for the operator.""

Father of Idaho slayings victim says Bryan Kohberger wouldn’t look at him in court

I don't think DM went from her "frozen shock phase" quoted in the affidavit to believing everything was fine. I definitely think she knew something was amiss. She may not have known her friends were being murdered, but I doubt this was a regular Saturday night occurrence. IMO, DM spent that night terrified and afraid to look to see what had happened until BF was up.

MOO

 

[iamshadow21]

I don't think DM went from her "frozen shock phase" quoted in the affidavit to believing everything was fine. I definitely think she knew something was amiss. She may not have known her friends were being murdered, but I doubt this was a regular Saturday night occurrence. IMO, DM spent that night terrified and afraid to look to see what had happened until BF was up.

MOO

Given that we know BK returned to the scene at around nine, she had every reason to be terrified and stayed locked in her room. I do wonder if the return was purely to 'looky loo' and see if the crime had been discovered, or whether it was an attempt to retrieve the sheath, probably aborted because by nine, there were too many people up and about who might have seen him trying to enter.

 

[maskedwoman]

DBM (didn't add to sleuthing the case).

It depends on the flooring. My bedroom used to be carpeted and it was all I could do just to move the dresser away from the wall to vacuum. If I had managed to get it in front of the door, I think it would have been like trying to move a tree by opening the door. On the hardwood I have now, it would absolutely slide. No problem. MOOooo

 

[schooling]

This car will make me crazy. How are they going to explain that they were searching for a 2011-2013 Elantra and then Whoops, we meant 2015? Because the differences on the type of Elantra they showed images of between a 2011-2013 and a 2015 are distinctive. Unless there was something 2011-2013 on the 2015 (like the wheels), whomever was reviewing the tapes and identified it incorrectly needs to go back and learn some more about car identification.

If they had just said 2011-2016, it would have covered all of the 5th gen.

MOO, it's a car person thing.

I think a lot of people are over thinking this as if it's some sort of checkmate move. This is what happens when we start analyzing evidence like they are individual plays in a football game.

A close friend of mine drove a 2013 up until 2020. For 8 years she saw that car day in and day out. I played a 2013 vs 2015 game and she couldn't tell. After I pointed out the differences to her, her chances improved but from certain angles she still couldn't' tell.

Jurors are just like my friend. They are easily going to be able to understand how a mistake like that is made, especially in the dark. And they'll be able to see the source video that led LE to that conclusion.

Once cellular location evidence is overlaid over the video. And one corroborates and bolsters the other. And your choice is to either accept those two things or believe in EXTRAORDINARY coincidences (along with a framing of DNA at the crime scene).....I doubt the small taillight and front bumper differences in the two Elantras will be a big deal at all.

The Law Enforcement officials in the Delphi case WISH their car misidentification problem was this small.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

Given that we know BK returned to the scene at around nine, she had every reason to be terrified and stayed locked in her room. I do wonder if the return was purely to 'looky loo' and see if the crime had been discovered, or whether it was an attempt to retrieve the sheath, probably aborted because by nine, there were too many people up and about who might have seen him trying to enter.

Don't forget a neighbor reportedly saw the front door open at 8:30 am. Given that DM saw BK head toward the sliding door (though the PCA doesn't say she saw him leave), I have wondered if the neighbor was off by 30-60 minutes and the front door was open because BK returned to try to retrieve the sheath. JMO.

Idaho murders: Slain university students' neighbor says front door left wide open after attacks

A neighbor of four slain University of Idaho students whose shocking stabbing deaths remain unsolved nearly four weeks later claimed they saw the front door wide open hours after the slayings.

www.q13fox.com

 

[iamshadow21]

It depends on the flooring. My bedroom used to be carpeted and it was all I could do just to move the dresser away from the wall to vacuum. If I had managed to get it in front of the door, I think it would have been like trying to move a tree by opening the door. On the hardwood I have now, it would absolutely slide. No problem. MOOooo

I think all the floors were modern lino. So there wouldn't be the grab you'd get from carpeting. Smooth slide.

 

[10ofRods]

IMO he ditched his clothes and weapon right after the murders when he took awhile and a round-about way to arrive home. No way he had that stuff 6 weeks later in PA. But he doesn't sound like a real clean person, so I wouldn't be surprised if he hadn't cleaned it since Nov 13, and knew he should throw away any potential DNA or hair etc that he might have transferred. I wonder if the cops pulling him over set off his senses they were on to him? Though I think the car cleaning was like 2 weeks after the drive.

His neighbors seem to report him as cleaning, vacuuming, dealing with garbage in the middle of the night.

IMO.

Here's an article:

Accused University of Idaho murderer Bryan Kohberger ‘never slept’

“He’s normally a very late-night person, going to the bathroom and vacuuming at 1 or 12 in the morning,” the neighbor said.

nypost.com

What to make of it?

 

[iamshadow21]

<modsnip - quoted post was removed>
Okay, I went to the photo album at the beginning of the thread, and found this. It is a step UP, not down, from the kitchen to the living room, if this photo is the living room, which I think it is. The ajar door would be D's door.

So, not a full flight of stairs, but a step, if this is the right view, which, please correct me if I'm wrong. It's just the point where one half of the house meets the other on that middle floor.

Google Photos


This is the same room, the living room, facing back towards Xana's room.

Google Photos


Someone coming down the step and turning towards the kitchen (right) would enter this photograph from the right, passing the space for the refrigerator, and exiting past the oven.

Google Photos


The sliding door, the exit point.

Google Photos

Apologies for all the edits. I hope it helps folks. It gave me a better understanding of the flow.

 

[Tillyjames]

His neighbors seem to report him as cleaning, vacuuming, dealing with garbage in the middle of the night.

IMO.

Here's an article:

Accused University of Idaho murderer Bryan Kohberger ‘never slept’

“He’s normally a very late-night person, going to the bathroom and vacuuming at 1 or 12 in the morning,” the neighbor said.

nypost.com

What to make of it?

I have an apartment where I can hear a lot of comings and goings of neighbors, but I certainly can’t say I can hear when any of my neighbors use the bathroom. Just kind of odd the neighbor knows he went to bathroom late. Must be real thin walls… MOO

 

[jepop]

I don't think much would come of a defence attorney debating a press release that was likely intended to keep a witness safe from media intrusion and if this is the best they can come up with, BK needs a better attorney.

I agree, was responding to another poster who wondered whether defense might try to attck LE as untrustworthy owing to instants of "erroneous" communication to the public in early days of investigation. That poster mentioned the whole bed thingy. MOO

Just bouncing off your post to some other points.
I don't even think LE's communication to the public in the early days could be classified as "erroneous" for a start. I agree with other posters who point to an evolving inverstigation by LE. I also agree with others who point to the difference between info actually released and discussed by LE in Press Conferences vs some MSM (for e.gthe Daily Mail) angles and interpretations and perhaps inadvertaent or otherwise misinterpretation of LE's statements. MOO

 

[eloquence]

Quoted directly from affidavit:

" After reviewing the numerous observations of Suspect Vehicle 1, the forensic examiner initially believed that Suspect Vehicle 1 was a 2011-2013 Hyundai Elantra. Upon further review, he indicated it could also be a 2011-2016 Hyundai Elantra. As a result, investigators have been reviewing information on persons in possession of a vehicle that is a 2011-2016 white Hyundai Elantra.”

It was described as 2011-2016 for POI prior to request for info from public. BCK was identified as POI from that. IMO they described as 2011 to 2013 in request to public to give BCK a false sense of security.

Snipped / bolded for focus

Has it been confirmed that it was expanded to before given to the public? Admittedly have fallen off this case due to work in the last week or two, but I hadn't seen that detail.

IMO, they got BK in their crosshairs based on his white Elantra being registered to WSU, and then went back for further review to see if they could exclude his 2015 Elantra from the video, and then the investigator decided it could be a broader range. I don't think LE was intentionally giving out false info.

 

[10ofRods]

IMO he ditched his clothes and weapon right after the murders when he took awhile and a round-about way to arrive home. No way he had that stuff 6 weeks later in PA. But he doesn't sound like a real clean person, so I wouldn't be surprised if he hadn't cleaned it since Nov 13, and knew he should throw away any potential DNA or hair etc that he might have transferred. I wonder if the cops pulling him over set off his senses they were on to him? Though I think the car cleaning was like 2 weeks after the drive.

His neighbors seem to report him as cleaning, vacuuming, dealing with garbage in the middle of the night.

IMO.

Here's an article:

Accused University of Idaho murderer Bryan Kohberger ‘never slept’

“He’s normally a very late-night person, going to the bathroom and vacuuming at 1 or 12 in the morning,” the neighbor said.

nypost.com

What to make of it? Here is the quote from the article:

“It seemed like he never slept because he was always doing something all night.”

And that something was:

"...going to the bathroom and vacuuming at 1 or 12 in the morning."

...“He’s normally a very late-night person."