ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 71

[wary]

People are not required to believe everything he says. IMO. Reasonable doubt does not mean 'only direct evidence can convict' IMO. No one is required to consider outlandish stories. 'Reasonable doubt' operative word being 'reasonable'.

And his attorney is not under oath, and can’t testify for him, (though they often try.)

So theoretically, he would have to take the stand to testify that he was parked there to jog. Then he’d have to explain to the prosecution why that place, a ten minute drive from where he lived and went to college, was the perfect place to go jogging at 4:00 am.

MOO

 

[North_Idaho_Nony]

I'm guessing that unalived is social media speak for killed himself or commit suicide? I'm not convinced that he considered the pentaly when he selected his victims. Realistically, if found guilty and if prosecution seeks the death penalty, it's going to be a long drawn out suicide by state.

Yes — sorry!

In Idaho, the State’s decision to seek the DP is made before the trial (within 60 days of defendant’s plea entry, IIRC), so a plea bargain would happen before the trial.

If it goes to trial, I fully expect a DP sentence from a jury anywhere in this state.

I agree it would be a long drawn out suicide by state, which might suit BCK’s ego quite well, it seems to me.

All MOO.

 

[ktm44]

Legendary FBI profiler John Douglas had a great line in his book “Mindhunter,” (great Netflix series), in which he said “a serial killer plans to get away with it, a mass murderer doesn’t, and a spree killer hasn’t thought that far ahead.” I think this guy profiles as a serial killer, even though four at once is insane. He didn’t want to be caught.

I'm not qualified to profile but I do think that he never believed he would get caught but I also believe that very few do. I stil feel he had an idealistic or simplistic idea of planning vs reality.

 

[North_Idaho_Nony]

Idaho hasn’t executed someone in more than a decade, and this guy would know that. I don’t think he’d have any incentive to plea then, as he’s looking at life in prison. The state has no leverage here, so we’re going to trial.

I hope you’re right — so much more info will come out in a trial than typically comes out in plea agreements here. And I appreciate your optimism that our legislature, which is currently in session, won’t change our DP statute to include other methods to get things moving.

MOO

 

[pittsburghgirl]

Thank you. So there was no official LE source that stated the FBI ordered the pull overs. That mistaken narrative must have been reported by MSM from some other unverified source. MOO

I thought this was debunked a while back. That Howard Blum article in Airmail points out the LE was tracking BK but that the Indiana stops were for his aggressive driving, i.e., tailgating.

MOO but the Indiana traffic stops interest me because they happened minutes apart and showed me something about BK's character. He gets a warning from LE and then doubles down on the behavior he was pulled over for in the first place. That tells me that "no one is the boss of him," that he can't learn from a mistake or a reprimand.

 

[North_Idaho_Nony]

So after hearing that BK was terminated as a TA, I’m more curious on the status of his internship with the WSU PD. Allegedly he was in the top 4 candidates. We still don’t know if he was ever offered the internship. Would his firing as the TA have any effect on the internship decision? Wondering if we find out at trial he was denied the internship during the same time frame?

Just to clarify: WSU has its own police department that is separate & distinct from Pullman Police Department (PPD).

His April interview & fall application were with PPD, IIRC.

(UI does not have its own police department; it contracts with Moscow Police Department for law enforcement services.)

HTH & MOO

 

[girlhasnoname]

These guys don’t think about getting caught. But he’d know the law, know the precedent, and ride this out I think.

BK likes all the attention and he thinks he's just smart enough to get himself out of it with a jury. No plea deal for this defendant. IMO

 

[North_Idaho_Nony]

Yes, it is speculation BK didn't get the internship he applied for with Pullman PD, which is why I didn't include a link and ended the post with "MOO". It hasn't been confirmed by LE in MSM whether he was accepted or rejected. I'm also speculating their decision was put on hold if they followed up with his professors to vet him and they weren't ready or willing to recommend him as a good candidate for either of the two three-year intern positions he applied for:

"It is not clear whether Mr Kohberger was offered a position with the department. The Independent has reached out to the department for comment.

The internship had been previously mentioned by law enforcement in the affidavit for Mr Kohberger’s arrest, released on 5 January. It stated that Mr Kohberger had written in an essay that “he had interest in assisting rural law enforcement agencies with how to better collect and analyze technological data in public safety operations.”

According to WSU’s website, the university offers two of the three-year positions in collaboration with the department of criminal justice and criminology and the cities of Pullman and Pasco.

“The purpose of these positions is to support each agency through data management and analysis, and to position them for success when they seek external funding,” according to the page."

Bryan Kohberger was interviewed by police chief for internship months before murders

Thanks & DRATS! I was hoping you had seen something I’d missed. The unknown outcomes of that April zoom interview & fall application continue to unsettle me!

 

[Twistinginthewind]

What if he says he was parked behind 1122 to jog. He hears screams and sees a suspect flee on foot, He enters the house after to see if everyones ok. He leaves right after cuz hes freaked out. State still needs more which I believe they have. moo

Would BK's defense team have told the court they have no evidence to present "at this time", if this kind of scenario was something they have a good handle on evidence-wise, and they just "need more time" (until trial end of June)? Just curious. IMO, they could just be stalling, and using the next few months to throw things at the wall and see what might stick? MOO

Idaho Murders Suspect Bryan Kohberger Informs Prosecutors He Has No Evidence to Present at Trial at This Time​

Inside Edition
Chris Spargo
2/3/2023

"Bryan Kohberger told prosecutors that he has yet to gather evidence that he plans to use at trial, in a court filing this week"

Idaho Murders Suspect Bryan Kohberger Tells Prosecutors He Has No Evidence to Present at Trial

 

[Tintina]

Myslel jsem, že to bylo před časem vyvráceno. Ten článek Howarda Bluma v Airmail poukazuje na to, že LE sledoval BK, ale že zastávky v Indianě byly pro jeho agresivní jízdu, tj. tailgating.

MOO, ale doprava v Indianě mě přestala zajímat, protože se odehrály několik minut po sobě a ukázaly mi něco o charakteru BK. Dostane varování od LE a pak zdvojnásobí chování, za které byl stažen na prvním místě. To mi říká, že „jeho nikdo nešéfuje“, že se nemůže poučit z chyby nebo výtky.

Was he fined after the second reprimand?

 

[10ofRods]

Here's a link

Bryan Kohberger's former student describes abrupt behavior change after Idaho college murders

The criminology student said Kohberger's grading style took an abrupt turn after the murders took place.

abc7ny.com

Unfortunately (and this is my point) we have an unreliable narrator. A student in the class (whose name is in the article and whose face is on the youtube) says that's what happened. If you ask students what happened in a class, they do tend to use slang and abbreviated language. That was her sense of what happened.

I do not believe that's exactly what was said until the prof themselves steps up and reveals more about the interaction.

I never say that humans are descended from monkeys (!!!) and in fact, spend a month carefully going over last shared common ancestors and the actual scientific facts and I still get students either emailing or saying, "Wow, so we DO descend from monkeys." (But I do not use the word 'monkey' - I use proper terminology in my class and I always tell them that we don't have a good idea about that phase - 50 million years ago - of our evolution). Or I get angry emails, "You taught my kid we're descended from monkeys!"

I do talk a lot about chimps (our closest living relative, via DNA). And I carefully explain how and why we are very different to chimps but that we are certainly not descended from chimpanzees (pan troglodytes ).

At the end of the class, many students will look at the final, see a picture of poor pan troglodytes and write that it's...a monkey. Sigh.

So I take the impressions of a student who sat through the event - which clearly became hostile at some point - with a grain of salt. I'm not going to throw WSU prof under the bus because a student, in a casual (for media) interview used their own words to describe what happened. Prof likely said, "You now have an opportunity to express concerns" and let Bryan take the floor. She did not invite conflict as the words " go at him " actually imply.

Obviously, MOO.

 

[10ofRods]

Would BK's defense team have told the court they have no evidence to present "at this time", if this kind of scenario was something they have a good handle on evidence-wise, and they just "need more time" (until trial end of June)? Just curious. IMO, they could just be stalling, and using the next few months to throw things at the wall and see what might stick? MOO

Idaho Murders Suspect Bryan Kohberger Informs Prosecutors He Has No Evidence to Present at Trial at This Time​

Inside Edition
Chris Spargo
2/3/2023

"Bryan Kohberger told prosecutors that he has yet to gather evidence that he plans to use at trial, in a court filing this week"

Idaho Murders Suspect Bryan Kohberger Tells Prosecutors He Has No Evidence to Present at Trial

Okay - WOW. This should be the Post of the Day (others, if you have posted same link - thank you!)

This speaks volumes. And it also means the flow of discovery is entirely one way. Wow. I can't even imagine how this is going to play out in June.

Either the defense has evidence or it doesn't. It saying it doesn't. None. Zero. Zilch. I wonder what he's planning to gather. Idaho doesn't accept a mental health plea so that evidence would be irrelevant. What a peculiar situation.

Anyone know of another case that went down this path?

 

[x_files]

I'd like to think he'd take the smart, less traumatic option and plea out in exchange for life imprisonment, like Gary Ridgway did.

But everything I've seen said about him to me suggests an arrogance, a sense of superiority and entitlement that reminds me more of Bundy. A man who enjoyed the theatre of his multiple trials possibly as much as the murders he committed. Not to mention the theatre of his appeals, the constant interviews with media, biographers and profilers, and the fan mail from women pathologically attracted to dangerous men.

Bundy also had a mother who loved him, who begged from the depths of her soul for his life. He had a long term partner with a young stepdaughter, and then, he married another woman and fathered a child while incarcerated. Every single one of these people, he protested his innocence to, right up until the end, until it was completely clear he was not going to dodge the chair. Then, only then, did he tell his loved ones that he was every bit as much a villain as he was known to be. He didn't plea to spare them anything, though he could have. Tactically, it would have made more sense to plead guilty. He might be alive today if he had. But he was having too much fun.

I think BK is going to enjoy it all.

I agree.

 

[x_files]

Originally NewsNation had a story about this. But I did find this as well. They also used News Nation as their source.
Idaho murders – update: Bryan Kohberger was fired from WSU for ‘behavioural problems’ and ‘sexist attitude’

This could have been the trigger that set him off.

 

[Moriarty]

Okay - WOW. This should be the Post of the Day (others, if you have posted same link - thank you!)

This speaks volumes. And it also means the flow of discovery is entirely one way. Wow. I can't even imagine how this is going to play out in June.

Either the defense has evidence or it doesn't. It saying it doesn't. None. Zero. Zilch. I wonder what he's planning to gather. Idaho doesn't accept a mental health plea so that evidence would be irrelevant. What a peculiar situation.

Anyone know of another case that went down this path?

Could this simply mean that the defense will focus solely on dismantling the State's case, showing why the evidence the State has is circumstantial and could point in numerous directions? Does the defense need to offer any new evidence if they are only going to attack the State's evidence?

I don't actually know and would love to hear from any criminal law experts or attorneys on here...

 

[TeaTime]

The state will present it's witnesses, the defense will cross examine them and may bring some forensic experts to counter the state experts.

Yes, defense will attack every action or inaction by the state.

But, the jurors will hear all of the bricks of circumstantial evidence that build a wall which reasonable doubt can not penetrate.

If he goes to trial he will get the DP.

His lawyer will advise against trial to save his life.

 

[Twistinginthewind]

The state will present it's witnesses, the defense will cross examine them and may bring some forensic experts to counter the state experts.

Yes, defense will attack every action or inaction by the state.

But, the jurors will hear all of the bricks of circumstantial evidence that build a wall which reasonable doubt can not penetrate.

If he goes to trial he will get the DP.

His lawyer will advise against trial to save his life.

BBM ^^ I totally agree with you, TeaTime. I think the case will not go to trial but will instead be heard by a Grand Jury. MOO

 

[Deleted member 718]

BBM ^^ I totally agree with you, TeaTime. I think the case will not go to trial but will instead be heard by a Grand Jury. MOO

Could you please give a simple explanation about the differences. Who would make the decision? I'm clueless about this. Thanks!

 

[gremlin444]

Bryan Kohberger was fired from WSU teaching job days before Idaho murders arrest, report says​

In his brief four-month stint as a teaching assistant, Mr Kohberger also reportedly got into multiple altercations with one of the professors – Professor John Snyder."

Bryan Kohberger was fired from WSU teaching job days before Idaho murders arrest, report says

Interesting comment on one of Dr. Snyder's 2022 fall classes on ratemyprofessors.com:

BBM:

posted 1/13 (so, possibly fradulent, but not sure what the motive would be, esp since they were many commenting on his class, not just the TA) : CRIMJ320 "This was an okay course. Prof Snyder was very unstructured and he just spoke about whatever in tangents (bc he doesn't follow his own syllabus). Nice guy. TAs matter the most as they grade your papers. AVOID bryan (very harsh grader)"

 

[NCWatcher]

Unfortunately (and this is my point) we have an unreliable narrator. A student in the class (whose name is in the article and whose face is on the youtube) says that's what happened. If you ask students what happened in a class, they do tend to use slang and abbreviated language. That was her sense of what happened.

I do not believe that's exactly what was said until the prof themselves steps up and reveals more about the interaction.

I never say that humans are descended from monkeys (!!!) and in fact, spend a month carefully going over last shared common ancestors and the actual scientific facts and I still get students either emailing or saying, "Wow, so we DO descend from monkeys." (But I do not use the word 'monkey' - I use proper terminology in my class and I always tell them that we don't have a good idea about that phase - 50 million years ago - of our evolution). Or I get angry emails, "You taught my kid we're descended from monkeys!"

I do talk a lot about chimps (our closest living relative, via DNA). And I carefully explain how and why we are very different to chimps but that we are certainly not descended from chimpanzees (pan troglodytes ).

At the end of the class, many students will look at the final, see a picture of poor pan troglodytes and write that it's...a monkey. Sigh.

So I take the impressions of a student who sat through the event - which clearly became hostile at some point - with a grain of salt. I'm not going to throw WSU prof under the bus because a student, in a casual (for media) interview used their own words to describe what happened. Prof likely said, "You now have an opportunity to express concerns" and let Bryan take the floor. She did not invite conflict as the words " go at him " actually imply.

Obviously, MOO.

I do not agree we have an unreliable narrator. We simply don't know if the student in the class who has reported details of the in-class event the professor set up with BK is reliable. He is presenting an individual viewpoint but that doesn't mean what is being said isn't objectively accurate. It doesn't mean it is accurate either. Another post points out the student said "he was like, have at him" when describing what the professor said to the class and so that meant the student wasn't quoting the professor. I'm not sure that conclusion is warranted. People who use that utterly irritating phrase "He was like..." can mean just about anything by that phrase from here comes a quote to a description that completely misreads the person's actions/speech.

If we had the professor's account IMO we also couldn't know whether that was an accurate account--- not much doubt the professor might have reasons of self-interest to slant his description of the purpose of the event in a certain way! While I have decades of experience as a professor myself I'm not as convinced as you are this assistant professor had all the right reasons for the in-class confrontation and took the right approach in introducing it. I'd need to know more about him/her. Simply being a professor isn't enough to get an automatic pass from me.

Very little of what we know now or think we know has been verified. Lots of stuff may have reliability issues. I'm not sure why the viewpoint of this student would be any more suspect than the viewpoints of others we've heard about in the case who say they interacted with BK or observed him in some way. You may be completely correct in your take but we don't have evidence of that at this point.

JMO