ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 71

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  • #1,081
How does the Indiana stop affect the evidence from the case? Not to be glib, but who cares if they were told to pull him over or not?
IMO Some people would take a keen interest, including people outside this case. There is no mention of evidence gained from these two stops, yet. The interest would be on government surveillance, whisper stops and detaining people, and inter-agency requests for action. JMO
 
  • #1,082
I don't believe there was a life-changing trigger that caused BK to murder 4 people. He comes across as a life-long "strange dude" who seemed to be heading to a horrible crime at some point. It seems he was in trouble almost immediately after arriving in Washington. What was his life like while in college?

One tidbit I would like to know is the details of his WSU application process. Obviously, he would have been asked why he wanted to pursue a PhD.
Was it his own personal interest? (Queen lead guitarist Brian May has a PhD in astrophysics)
Did he hope to teach?
Did he want to work for the FBI? (not many beat cops have PhD's)
Did he want to research the nature of murderers or crime scene investigation?
Did he want to write novels or Hollywood screenplays?

I really don't know enough about him to make an informed guess as to his future intentions, but I doubt he would take a plea for life without hope of release. I suspect he would see this as torture.
 
  • #1,083
I don't believe there was a life-changing trigger that caused BK to murder 4 people. He comes across as a life-long "strange dude" who seemed to be heading to a horrible crime at some point. It seems he was in trouble almost immediately after arriving in Washington. What was his life like while in college?

One tidbit I would like to know is the details of his WSU application process. Obviously, he would have been asked why he wanted to pursue a PhD.
Was it his own personal interest? (Queen lead guitarist Brian May has a PhD in astrophysics)
Did he hope to teach?
Did he want to work for the FBI? (not many beat cops have PhD's)
Did he want to research the nature of murderers or crime scene investigation?
Did he want to write novels or Hollywood screenplays?

I really don't know enough about him to make an informed guess as to his future intentions, but I doubt he would take a plea for life without hope of release. I suspect he would see this as torture.
My thoughts are that he probably wanted to be high up in the military or law enforcement. There were reports that at one point he had hoped to become an army ranger (LOL, that's a young man's job - one needs to start that career early). Maybe he wanted to be an FBI agent or profiler.

The more stories that come out about him, the more I think that this is a guy with serious delusions of grandeur. Sure he was going for his PhD, so I will acknowledge that that kind of studying alone means he has drive, but doesn't necessarily mean he was a genius. I think he is probably mediocre (at best) when it comes to social skills and also his school work. Dude couldn't even keep his TA job due to his inability to control his behavior towards women!

I also do not think he wanted to go into teaching, but all that schooling would suggest that's where he was heading. Really, in the end what does one do with a PhD in criminology? I think he had arrived at a point in his life where he just said, "Screw this" and decided to commit these murders because he was bored with his life and figured if he did get caught, he could pen his memoirs in prison about this "horrendous crime" and then he would be known for this, possibly even studied in the future by other criminology students.

I know it sounds silly, but people have killed others for a lot less. Heck, some kids kill other kids just so they can steal their shoes!
 
  • #1,084
Good thoughts but incompetency is a rather high bar isn't it? And strictly such a ruling would IMO be a gross miscarriage of justice if it comes to pass.

JMO
Idaho only considers competency regarding sentencing, but I think he already blew it with that when he turned his phone to airplane mode to avoid detection. And his long ride to dump evidence. And cleaning his car repeatedly. I think any judge or jury would say all that shows strong evidence that he understood what he was doing and that it was wrong. So while I think it's clear that he has some issues, he's by no means incompetent. MOOooo
 
  • #1,085
Where I studied and taught, matriculation and TAship were two, different things. Now being expelled would end one's job as a TA, obviously, but losing your TAship would not necessarily cause expulsion (depending on the severity of the offense that caused the termination).

I do think it's quite possible that, as an out-of-state student, BK would have found tuition prohibitively expensive without a TAship. Again, I do not have inside knowledge of WSU, but I have been both a TA and a prof at another uni in the same athletic conference.

I think that's true in general. DH and I were discussing this last night - BK has not been expelled, that we know of. It's not really an issue right now, and if he is exonerated, he could return to WSU, I suppose.

I also wanted to mention that when results of a termination process are released publicly, it's the fact that the termination occurred and the formal reason enacted by the Board of Trustees or governing authority (often the Chancellor, sometimes the College President), not the entire case file from HR.

The HR records (all the phone calls, interviews, signed statements, etc) remain private. So in the case of a faculty person fired just this semester (who had an office two doors down from mine), it went Dean>College President>Chancellor and boom he was gone. He did not have tenure. And it didn't go to the Board because technically he resigned. He was told to resign immediately or face it going to the Board and it becoming public because the Chancellor and the President were adamant he would do (it was an egregious contractual offense, also rather open/shut - hard to deny).

The way I read the Criminology program's statement is that all Criminology students get some kind of discount on tuition (I think it was 50% as compared to 10% in some departments) in their first year (in addition to TA-ship). Then, if they take all measures to become Washington State residents (DL, car registration, voter registration, local address, etc) they get in-state tuition (half off, IIRC) for their second and third years, then it's free after that. He had clearly started the process of becoming in-state. At any rate, his tuition for Spring would have been something like $7500 at the 50% off rate. I am thinking he probably had some kind of loan for that amount, since his TAship wouldn't pay it.

But I bet the TAship covered his rent. It's possible he could have gotten loans for all of it, but it's still a disgrace and everyone around him would know it. Financial and psychological damage.

And I do believe that while he had fantasized committing a crime and had a very specific kind of crime in mind, he had some inhibitions to overcome. The situation with his schooling dialed down his inhibitions.
 
  • #1,086
Idaho only considers competency regarding sentencing, but I think he already blew it with that when he turned his phone to airplane mode to avoid detection. And his long ride to dump evidence. And cleaning his car repeatedly. I think any judge or jury would say all that shows strong evidence that he understood what he was doing and that it was wrong. So while I think it's clear that he has some issues, he's by no means incompetent. MOOooo
Agree. The insanity defense was exploited for a while, but it has been remedied in every state I think.

Lori Daybell Vallow case shows some of how it works.
She was evaluated by a psychologist who reported she did not understand things well enough to participate in her own defense, she was sent to a locked facility to be “restored” for 6 months.
MOO she is back and deemed competent to understand she in a trial being charged with murder.
As the OP above said, any evidence of cognizance their deed was wrong, such as turning off the phone or disposing of murder weapon etc. voids claim to mental incompetence.
 
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  • #1,087
I'm willing to bet money that DM would not be fined for a bogus 911. LE rolls on calls like "there is a strange man, dressed in black wearing a mask in my house".
MOO Not the issue, MOO more the social thing of not reacting and blowing up about a weird thing the way a suburban parent would.
 
  • #1,088
Damn, but you teach at a rough school! You must be very brave!

I never had an issue with students. It probably helps to be a 6'3" man.

<modsnip: off topic/personalizing>

But as you can see, simple stalking without a gun would be even harder to figure out and to prosecute. BK wisely did not apparently stalk anyone near his own university, where he would have been easily identified or at least known to some of the community. So while BK is acting out against women in his own program and in grading, he is stalking or observing (as I'm sure he thought of it) in another place. He's spreading his wings. These are the things he associates with "freedom" and, perhaps, "adulthood." Free access to the world, the ability to drive around, no parents requiring him to be home at a certain time, women galore to "choose from," and all he can do is watch.

My theory of the day is that he made it project to locate the "prettiest girls" at U of ID. What I'd like to know is whether his violent fantasies were enacted against them out of conscious rage at his WSU situation. We will likely never know (unless he writes a book - ghost written, of course). And I do believe he will try to write one. I also believe he wants to be on Death Row (@MassGuy said it well - he knows he won't actually die any time soon, but if he's going to be in prison, he wants the Top Position of Infamy).
 
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  • #1,089

Idaho Murders Update: Kohberger Used 'Staging 101' To Derail Investigation, Expert Suggests​

International Business Times
Kent Masing
02/08/2023

"A criminal profiling expert suggested that Bryan Kohberger, the suspect in slaughtering four University of Idaho students, might have attempted to mislead investigators in their search for the killer. ... [...] ...

"This is staging 101," Kelly said. "They're going to look at this, and they're going to think it's a military guy that did this – some guy with some kind of training who lives up the road.""


Idaho Murders Update: Kohberger Used 'Staging 101' To Derail Investigation, Expert Suggests

The quote from the link below makes a lot of sense to something I hadn't been able to make sense of, which was why was the sheath on the bed. I've wondered from the beginning how in the world the sheath got left on the bed and even Goog'ed for images of the back of it to see how the loop was attached (and posted about that way upthread) thinking maybe it broke and fell off his belt. Because he for darn sure (IMHO) should have had it ON his belt to prevent it from falling off and leaving it behind!

So that one piece of evidence has always bothered me as something not right. Especially it's placement. It's not like it dropped and ended up under the bed.

On the other hand, you'd THINK he'd make darn sure his DNA was nowhere on it before intentionally leaving it behind! If that's what he did.

And it's funny to me that this Mastermind (what he likely thinks of himself) used 'Staging 101' and not something more complex. If he is as smart as he thinks he wouldn't have gone with Staging 101. All MOO

John Kelly, a psychotherapist who interviewed serial killers, told Fox News Digital that Kohberger may have intentionally planted the tan leather knife sheath in the bed with two of his victims.

 
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  • #1,090
BK will be spending years in prison (IMO), either for the term of his natural life, or on death row. So I presume he can continue with his studies? Gain more qualifications? Write textbooks? Maybe even become a PI? :)

1970 A family member and her friend were murdered by a teenager who was tried as an adult. He was found guilty, sentenced to concurrent terms of not less than 25 nor more than 60 years. Their killer got his GED, Bachelors and Masters degrees while serving his sentence. So yes, IMO unless things have changed, BK may be able to finish his PhD on the taxpayers dollar.

MOO
 
  • #1,091
I don't believe there was a life-changing trigger that caused BK to murder 4 people. He comes across as a life-long "strange dude" who seemed to be heading to a horrible crime at some point. It seems he was in trouble almost immediately after arriving in Washington. What was his life like while in college?

One tidbit I would like to know is the details of his WSU application process. Obviously, he would have been asked why he wanted to pursue a PhD.
Was it his own personal interest? (Queen lead guitarist Brian May has a PhD in astrophysics)
Did he hope to teach?
Did he want to work for the FBI? (not many beat cops have PhD's)
Did he want to research the nature of murderers or crime scene investigation?
Did he want to write novels or Hollywood screenplays?

I really don't know enough about him to make an informed guess as to his future intentions, but I doubt he would take a plea for life without hope of release. I suspect he would see this as torture.
According to the mechanic at the garage he took his car to, BK said he planned on being a professor.

I don't think there was a trigger that caused him to kill four people either. He may have been planning the crime as early as August when he first arrived at school.

I said this before but I think he waited to be far away from his family to commit the murders.

And yes, I don't think a life changing trigger was necessary if he always had feelings of inadequacy.
 
  • #1,092
1970 A family member and her friend were murdered by a teenager who was tried as an adult. He was found guilty, sentenced to concurrent terms of not less than 25 nor more than 60 years. Their killer got his GED, Bachelors and Masters degrees while serving his sentence. So yes, IMO unless things have changed, BK may be able to finish his PhD on the taxpayers dollar.

MOO

In Idaho prisons students/inmates apply for financial aid and scholarships same as any student. I don't know what state prison you are referring to but I have never heard of any prison paying for inmate's college degrees, just GED's. Inmates have to get their money from Financial Aid and Scholarships or pay themselves.

PHD's would be difficult to get behind bars because you need to publish and you can't get out in the community for hands on research or even have internet access to social media and other sites you would need.

BK would be in maximum security where the only education available is GED. Inmates need to be in a lower security classification to even get any college opportunities.

I don't see anything in Idaho prisons beyond a bachelor's degree.


College Options – in IDOC Facilities

There are opportunities for you to take some college courses while you are a resident of an IDOC facility. Independent Study in Idaho (ISI) was created by the State Board of Education to deliver college-level education courses remotely and the coursework (through the University of Idaho) can be accessed at any IDOC facility.

Financial aid and scholarships help many students pay for college and are available through a variety of sources.
 
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  • #1,093
My thoughts are that he probably wanted to be high up in the military or law enforcement. There were reports that at one point he had hoped to become an army ranger (LOL, that's a young man's job - one needs to start that career early). Maybe he wanted to be an FBI agent or profiler.

The more stories that come out about him, the more I think that this is a guy with serious delusions of grandeur. Sure he was going for his PhD, so I will acknowledge that that kind of studying alone means he has drive, but doesn't necessarily mean he was a genius. I think he is probably mediocre (at best) when it comes to social skills and also his school work. Dude couldn't even keep his TA job due to his inability to control his behavior towards women!

I also do not think he wanted to go into teaching, but all that schooling would suggest that's where he was heading. Really, in the end what does one do with a PhD in criminology? I think he had arrived at a point in his life where he just said, "Screw this" and decided to commit these murders because he was bored with his life and figured if he did get caught, he could pen his memoirs in prison about this "horrendous crime" and then he would be known for this, possibly even studied in the future by other criminology students.

I know it sounds silly, but people have killed others for a lot less. Heck, some kids kill other kids just so they can steal their shoes!

If the (published) rumor is true that he did in fact grade women lower than men as a TA, then this is the biggest red flag ever of a deep down resentment of women. If when confronted, he changes his behavior and starts giving all women all 100%s and giving all men lower marks would be an in-your-face type of passive/aggressive over-the-top response that would surely get anybody fired.

If those women compared grades and then talked to the professors to complain, then I can see a weak person like BK blame the women for whining and complaining versus blaming himself for being so biased. I can see someone weak with mental illnesses growing deep resentments for something that is not really a reality.

Quite honestly, in every sense of my grade school, middle school, high school and college... my experience was that women were generally smarter than us guys on average. In fact, there is no statistical difference in intelligence between men and women in school.

For him to have missed that basic lesson in life tells me a lot about his weakness and mindset.
 
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  • #1,094
1970 A family member and her friend were murdered by a teenager who was tried as an adult. He was found guilty, sentenced to concurrent terms of not less than 25 nor more than 60 years. Their killer got his GED, Bachelors and Masters degrees while serving his sentence. So yes, IMO unless things have changed, BK may be able to finish his PhD on the taxpayers dollar.

MOO
On the one hand, I guess it's good that they're focusing on something productive instead of each other. On the other hand, are we just making smarter criminals? I don't know....
 
  • #1,095
On the one hand, I guess it's good that they're focusing on something productive instead of each other. On the other hand, are we just making smarter criminals? I don't know....
Doesn't matter. to me. Let him try to get his pHD. Who is going to accept his application for study? and nobody is going to hire a phD with 4 felony murders on their record.
 
  • #1,096
Doesn't matter. to me. Let him try to get his pHD. Who is going to accept his application for study? and nobody is going to hire a phD with 4 felony murders on their record.

Nor is WSU going to allow him back, rather obviously.
 
  • #1,097
JMO, there are some very eerie similarities between what BK allegedly did, and what Michael E. Ballard did in 1999 in the area where BK lived when he was a child of 4 or 5 years old.

"The man accused of killing four people inside a Northampton home Saturday is the worst instance of mass murder in the county's recent history.
... [...] ...
Ballard is accused of stabbing four people to death Saturday at the home. The bloody scene of the crime was described by the Northampton County district attorney as unlike anything he had seen before.
... [...] ...
District Attorney John Morganelli said he has never seen four homicides at the same time and believes there has never been a quadruple homicide in the county's history.

Ballard joins Ali Davis as the only other man to recently be charged with four homicides, although Davis' were committed in two separate incidents."


Northampton homicides worst mass murder in county's recent history.
 
  • #1,098
On the one hand, I guess it's good that they're focusing on something productive instead of each other. On the other hand, are we just making smarter criminals? I don't know....

It is good to make "smarter criminals" through educational opportunities and vocational training, limited though it is in prisons.

What also makes "smart criminals" are the inmates in prison who learn from other inmates how to be better criminals.

Getting a "criminal education" behind bars, so to speak.

These inmates have higher recidivism rates.
 
  • #1,099
JMO, there are some very eerie similarities between what BK allegedly did, and what Michael E. Ballard did in 1999 in the area where BK lived when he was a child of 4 or 5 years old.

"The man accused of killing four people inside a Northampton home Saturday is the worst instance of mass murder in the county's recent history.
... [...] ...
Ballard is accused of stabbing four people to death Saturday at the home. The bloody scene of the crime was described by the Northampton County district attorney as unlike anything he had seen before.
... [...] ...
District Attorney John Morganelli said he has never seen four homicides at the same time and believes there has never been a quadruple homicide in the county's history.

Ballard joins Ali Davis as the only other man to recently be charged with four homicides, although Davis' were committed in two separate incidents."


Northampton homicides worst mass murder in county's recent history.
Read through the links. I agree that it's quite eerie.
 
  • #1,100
In considering the reported timeline of how BK's TA firing came about:

Sept 23 - "altercation" with professor
Oct 3 - meeting with professor to discuss "professional behavior"
Oct 21 - professor emails BK that he has failed expectations discussed at Oct 3 meeting
Nov 12 - meeting to discuss an improvement plan
Dec 7 - meeting to discuss how improvement plan is going
Dec 9 - second "altercation" with professor
Dec 19 - terminated

It's interesting to look at the timeline, knowing the murders took place the night of (technically the morning after) the Nov 12 meeting where an improvement plan was introduced. It's also interesting to think about what's been reported about how BK completely changed the way he graded papers right after the murders. Until we learned of the firing timeline it was somewhat implied via media that the change in BK's grading style was related to the crime (perhaps even that murdering relieved his anger, at least temporarily?). But it appears the change in grading style is almost certainly more to do with the improvement plan than anything crime related.

But still, I'm left to ponder that Nov 12 meeting, literally right before the murders. My pure speculation, but was BK reaping some type of psychological benefit or "high" from the harsh grading, an abuse he learned on Nov 12 that he would no longer be able to indulge in? How would he get his fix now? Were the female student complaints and subsequent improvement plan that they triggered further evidence that BK didn't have ultimate control over what females thought of him? Was there a way to indulge in an abuse that could never be overturned? Does any of this start to unblur the image of motive?

All just MOO.
 
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